A medium is not a medium

[Tricia]

A few years ago I purchased my first bike in over a decade, I tried several models and sizes and found the Cannondale Trigger in a medium to fit me quite well.
When I switched to an e-bike last year I bought without demoing because I felt a sense of urgency to buy while it was available, so I bought the Cannondale Habit Neo in a size medium.

Now, I know that different models have different geometry and I read the set up of the new bike I was buying but since I'd demo'd the Habit (not the Habit Neo) the previous year and felt fine on the medium, I figured....how much different could it be?

I liked some aspects of the Habit Neo but never really warmed up to it 100%.
Looking at photos of me riding the Trigger 3, compared to the Habit Neo, I look like I'm spawled out

So I started looking at other bikes and started to think about going with a small...
The first bike I got on was the Norco Sight VLT C1.
I checked out their bike sizing chart for my measurements, height, inseam, arm length, etc... And in that bike I'm a medium.
I demo'd it and sure enough medium it is.

So, the reason I'm bringing this up is to say..... a little bit of difference in bike geometry is a LOT.

Its almost like a ski boot fitting...a mm is a mile.

 

[Philpug]

Very true, I will mirror my experiences because both Tricia and I had the same C-dale Triggers in the medium. I would say the Triggers were a medium medium. At the time I did demo the Trigger in the large and while I felt I could go with that, the medium just felt a tad more nimble, not that I would not be content with the large. As Tricia said, when we bought the Habit Neo's, not giving it too much thought because we did also try the analog Habit, we felt the mediums would be a go. Once the Neo's arrived I actually felt a bit more comfortable on the medium...what feels like large medium and Tricia was struggling especially around switchbacks and tight spots where the Neo would just not come around. Was it the weight (softball there), was it going from the 27.5" to 29" was it because the wheelbase was longer because of a bit more rake or was it because the cockpit was longer? Very well it is a combination of all the above. But, she did get on the Norco Sight for a test ride, it is also heavier, is also a 29'er and also has more rake...but the cockpit is indeed shorter.

When I got on the Norco, I immediately felt squished, if I was to get a Norco, I would get a large. There are bikes that I have tried in a medium that work well and other that there is no way, and the large is the only option. Like with personalities in a ski collection w/in a brand, sizing with bikes is very inconsistent.

 

[scott43]

There's a reason why people like me make spreadsheets if bike geos to see what equals what. Ya spend forty years setting up your bike you do not want to mess with it too much!!

 

[Philpug]

Ya spend forty years setting up your bike you do not want to mess with it too much!!

But this falls under "I've always..." and "I've never..." I'v always (or never) skied in Lange boots...well a Lange from 40 (or 15 more so) are different from a Lange today. As far as size? How many of us are skiing in the same size boot were were 10 years ago with boots getting larger in side, we have been rightsizing for a while. I skied in 26.5's for years decades, now I am in a 25.5. This is where size matters but it is not consistent.

 

[graham418]

Top tube length can be quite different between brands. As in ski boots where every manufacturer has a different take on what the average foot shape is, bike manufactures have a different take on what the average leg length / torso length ratio should be. Women's specific sizing in bikes can be much more important(?) than in skis because of the difference in that ratio. Women generally have longer legs / shorter torso than men, requiring a shorter top tube.

 

[Philpug]

Top tube length can be quite different between brands. As in ski boots where every manufacturer has a different take on what the average foot shape is, bike manufactures have a different take on what the average leg length / torso length ratio should be.

I agree, but we are talking within a brand.

 

[Tony S]

A medium is not a medium

No. Kidding. Worth saying twice!

 

[Jersey Skier]

This is why Specialized says they switched to S sizing. S1 through S5. TT length determines your preferred fit. They say someone 5'8 could comfortably ride an S2, S3 or S4 depending upon how much they like to be stretched out. One day I'll actually have more than one of these in the store at the same time to check out the theory.

 

[graham418]

I agree, but we are talking within a brand.

Mens/Womens version of same model? You know the saying about the only standard in the bike industry is there is no standard

 

[Tricia]

Top tube length can be quite different between brands.

Mens/Womens version of same model? You know the saying about the only standard in the bike industry is there is no standard

Unisex sizing both.
I actually tried the women's specific bike models when I was demoing a few years ago and bought the bike that felt the best which was the Cannondale Trigger 3, not women's specific.
I was really close to getting the Bad Habit at the time because I kinda liked it too, but the Trigger won my $$.
When I bought the Habit Neo without demoing, I just figured it was close to the Bad Habit geometry, and was quick to purchase because bikes were selling out and I couldn't find a demo.

I'm sure I'll be able to sell it quickly so I'm not torn about it.

 

[cantunamunch]

There's a reason why people like me make spreadsheets if bike geos to see what equals what. Ya spend forty years setting up your bike you do not want to mess with it too much!!

The problem with spreadsheets is that they have bikes you were thinking about and never got and then you go do a quick internet check and there's one right there and oh crap there's a box at the door.

 

[oldschoolskier]

One word cause.

Marketing!

 

[Jersey Skier]

One word cause.

Marketing!

Well. Not exactly. An XC race bike shouldn't have the same geometry as a DH bike, nor a Trail bike. Nevermind Road vs Comfort bikes.

 

[scott43]

I mean.. Think of 1985. Almost all bikes were measured at the seat tube and excepting some small geometry differences, a 53 was a 53. Then they started sloping top tube bikes and it got murkier. Then MTBs came out and a whole new sizing regime but still not crazy. Then came 29ers and slacked out DH rigs and Seat tube and top tube sizing became nearly meaningless. Reach and stack are now quoted but even that us not 100%. So I hated the Small medium Large thing when it started, but really I don't know how else to measure them anymore. I try to find effective top tube and effective seat tube lengths but again, not always "accurate". Hence the spreadsheets...

 

[Tom K.]

This is why Specialized says they switched to S sizing. S1 through S5. TT length determines your preferred fit.

Top tube length?

But I thought we were all about "reach" and "stack" now, and TT mattered not a bit?!

 

[Jersey Skier]

Top tube length?

But I thought we were all about "reach" and "stack" now, and TT mattered not a bit?!

Sorry. Tried to keep it simple. When discussing stack and reach with customers, eyes start to glaze over. Usually followed by "so I'm 6 ft tall, so I need a large?"

 

[scott43]

Back in the day I could pick frame size and Seat height for customers just by looking at them. Then I'd just say trust me!

 

[Jersey Skier]

Back in the day I could pick frame size and Seat height for customers just by looking at them. Then I'd just say trust me!

During Covid size doesn't matter.

 

[oldschoolskier]

Well. Not exactly. An XC race bike shouldn't have the same geometry as a DH bike, nor a Trail bike. Nevermind Road vs Comfort bikes.

See.....you just proved it. Marketing towards XC bike, DH bike, Trail and so on, each has to be different to carve out their niche. Way stick to a standard methodology to easy for the average customer. Allows for the up sell. I was in sales and marketing way to long.

 

[fatbob]

The problem with inventory crisies is that you never get to actually try the bike you want for size before you commit and order.

Not a full demo, as simple as actually sitting on the same size frame in the store. When I got my bike Jan 20 i.e. pre crisis the most they could let me do was sit on the same frame in a lower spec of size L to allow me to confirm that I definitely wanted XL.