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Demo bindings are not new to the ski industry; they have been around in one form or another since starting as rental bindings in the mid-1970s. In the ski rental world, performance meant that a technician might save 30 sec adjusting the binding; on-snow performance was not really a priority.


Through the years, ease of adjustment remained paramount over performance. Weight, height, and other inefficiencies of the binding often created a disconnect between the boot and the ski. In most applications on a traditional straight ski, that really didn’t matter, and ease of adjustment was still the most important aspect. But as skis started getting wider, these bindings were masking the skis' performance, and we began to see a change.

Just as “mid-entry” boots of the 90s had a bad reputation while today's walk mode boots are accepted, now it is demo=good, rental=bad. The Marker Griffon demo was the first demo binding for me that took its purpose seriously, and that purpose was to demonstrate the attributes of the ski. The Marker Griffon demo set the bar because it skied almost identically to its regular retail counterpart and really became the first demo binding accepted by better skiers.

Other brands followed suit and started producing higher-performing adjustable or track bindings,which were then marked as system bindings on many popular skis. For all but the Nth-degree skiers, they skied very well. Such bindings became the choice for many of our readers, even on $1,000+ skis.

But the pendulum is swinging again, because of the advent of GripWalk and tech soles. These new designs are different than traditional DIN soles and require more than just fore-and-aft adjustment; they also need different height adjustments to accommodate the taller soles. More adjustment means more separation of the boot from the ski. No better example of this is the current Tyrolia Attack2 13 demo. Once Tyrolia added GW/AT sole compatibility, it completely changed the characteristics of the binding. It became 32 mm tall, about a full centimeter taller than its retail counterpart, the consumer Attack2 13. While the current Attack2 demo can be commended for its ease of adjustment and ability to accept every sole on the market, that versatility comes at the cost of its ability to show the best attributes of a ski.

The Rossignol Group’s Look SPX Konect was doing double duty as a system binding for its narrow retail skis and a demo binding for trade shows. Rossignol began to realize that while the 30mm+ stack height worked well on narrow skis, it neutered the performance of wider ones. So, it gave the SPX 12 a longer heel track, and now wider skis ski more like they do with a regular binding attached. Again, this is why Dynastar and Rossignol started going with a long-track (50mm) heel piece on the Look SPX 12 Konect for media to use on their wider demo skis. They felt that the lower, lighter, and more connected coupling would show their skis in a better light.

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When I was putting my most recent demo binding order in with Salomon -- [partner plug] the official demo binding of SkiTalk’s test fleet [/partner plug] -- it was suggested that I take some long-track heel bindings in my mix. I was hesitant at first, but I agreed with the logic. I still feel the Warden 13 Demo is fine on narrower skis, but once skis get wider, the new design better showcases the ski.

I started writing this before receiving my order, and my bindings began to arrive while I was typing the article. The first ski I mounted up was the 2021 DPS Pagoda Piste 94 C2; I couldn't wait to see whether I would notice a difference. Holy hell yes. The difference hit me like those "Aha!" flashback moments in the movies. I had the same feeling on these new skis as I had on my K2 Mindbender 99Ti and Rossignol Black Ops Sender Ti: the feeling of being connected to the snow. The common denominator is that all three have flat-on-the-deck bindings (Look Pivots and Salomon STH2).

So, to sum it all up … many readers swear that a minimal difference fore or aft on a ski makes a world of difference in performance. Well, I disagree. The reason is that the ski designers also disagree and are willing to give up that fore-and-aft movement in their own demonstration binding in favor of lower height, less weight, and a tighter coupling. Yes, the person who designed your ski feels that being 1 or even 2 cm up or back of its center point isn’t the end-all in performance. Sorry to burst any bubbles.

9/6/22-Updated with video.
About author
Philpug
I started skiing in the mid-70s in the Pocono Mountains of Pennsylvania; from then on, I found myself entrenched in the industry. I have worked in various ski shops from suburban to ski town to resort, giving me a well-rounded perspective on what skiers want from their gear. That experience was parlayed into my time as a Gear Review Editor and also consulting with manufacturers as a product tester. Along with being a Masterfit-trained bootfitter I am a fully certified self proclaimed Gear Guru. Not only do I keep up with the cutting edge of ski gear technology, but I am an avid gear collector and have an extensive array of bindings as well as many vintage skis.

Replies

^^^^ Yes, Speedpoint. Thing is that you can quickly adjust to different shoesizes but not fore-aft.
And a plastic base that created a disconnect with the ski.
 
Indeed. Made it quite wobbly. We used a lot of these in the indoor ski-school. Quick change of bootsize was very practical. Still have a brandnew din 12 in a box. Dont think it will ever be united with a ski. Poor binding :(.
 
Fore / aft adjustment makes a night and day difference in a ski.



My high school physics is a little rusty, but I'm pretty sure the claim about low stack height / higher leverage "in" the snow is false. You could have argued that being "in the ski" is advantageous in bumps or other places where you want less hook, but higher stack means higher leverage. Stack gives you leverage on the ski, the ski gives you leverage on the snow.
On narrower skis because of lever angles, height is a benefit, hence why FIS has height restrictions. On the wider skis, especially when the ski is on the snow and not in it. it takes more leverage to get that ski up onto edge when your are higher off of the ski.
Maybe I need to draw the force diagram but I'm not sure I'm getting how a taller stack height is worse of a wider ski but not on a narrower ski. It would see the added height gives more leverage, not less.

Put me in the camp that mount point and stack height can make a big difference on some skis. Unless someone can offer a science based explanation to the contrary, I agree with those who say increased stack height gives more leverage on narrow AND WIDE skis. Some may feel this disconnects them from the ski, but I tend to like it when carving groomers on all widths.
 
I posted this on Bindings 101, but maybe this is a better place for the question:

Likely about to buy the Kästle 89's ...I can get Tyrolia Attack2 13s premounted at about 1/3 the price of puting on my preferred bindings Look Pivot 14s (including mount fee). I'm leaning toward going with the economics of the Tyrolias v. my preferred bindings, but would greatly value your opinion on whether it's worth that much of price difference for the upgrade.

Added from original post ...especially after reading this thread; I'm frankly a bit noob-confused about this. Given the quality of the ski, I don't want to possibly downgrade the potential experience if I'm accepting the demo just for price. I also probably don't know if the Pivot is preferred for this ski. So all in, if it's marginal or not noticable, then comfortable with the demos, otherwise willing to pay a bit more to get optimal experience. NOTE if it helps: I am advanced skier, not expert. 6'2 175lbs., Plan to use it for Midwest & Frontside outwest and east). Demoed it from a friend who mounted Tyrolia 16s

Many thanks.
 
Added from original post ...especially after reading this thread; I'm frankly a bit noob-confused about this. Given the quality of the ski, I don't want to possibly downgrade the potential experience if I'm accepting the demo just for price. I also probably don't know if the Pivot is preferred for this ski. So all in, if it's marginal or not noticable, then comfortable with the demos, otherwise willing to pay a bit more to get optimal experience. NOTE if it helps: I am advanced skier, not expert. 6'2 175lbs., Plan to use it for Midwest & Frontside outwest and east). Demoed it from a friend who mounted Tyrolia 16s
If you demoed the ski with the Tyrolia 16 and buy them with demo, you will be getting a different skiing experience and it is not marginal and will be nociable. My suggestion is to put on your preferred Pivot or at least a regular Attack.
 
If you demoed the ski with the Tyrolia 16 and buy them with demo, you will be getting a different skiing experience and it is not marginal and will be nociable. My suggestion is to put on your preferred Pivot or at least a regular Attack.

Thank you. The ski deal actually came with the Tyrolia Attack2 13 GW Bindings. I believe those are not demo and so I went with those given the spread in price off the pivots
 
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I have some Fischer Ranger 108s which had the Tyrolla Attack 13 standard flat binding on them and I loved them, incredibly responsive, rip it up just about everywhere apart from the firmest of days. I was going on a trip and swapped this binding out for a Marker F13 touring binding with a much higher stack height and the ski has never been the same again. I can't work it out whether it is the increased stack height or the frame binding 'stiffening' the ski? Alas now it is so different the love affair is sadly over.
 
Pictures of Tyrolia Attack 2 and Attack2 AT Demo binding stand heights:
Both are 2019-2020 models.

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Tyrolia Attack 2 (top) - Tyrolia Attack 2 AT Demo (bottom)

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Tyrolia Attack 2 (top) - Tyrolia Attack 2 AT Demo (bottom)

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Tyrolia Attack 2 Toe

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Tyrolia Attack 2 AT Demo Toe

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Tyrolia Attack 2 heel

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Tyrolia Attack 2 AT demo heel​
 
On narrower skis because of lever angles, height is a benefit, hence why FIS has height restrictions. On the wider skis, especially when the ski is on the snow and not in it. it takes more leverage to get that ski up onto edge when your are higher off of the ski.

This doesn't make sense?... More leverage is more leverage. The longer the lever arm the more leverage. The detraction from taller stack heights is it takes a greater range of motion to change edges. Imagine tipping from a 45 degree edge angle on one set of edges to the same angle on the opposite set of edges, first 1mm above the top sheet of a 65mm waisted ski vs 1 meter above the top sheet of ski. Now imagine making that same experiment on a 120mm waisted ski. I don't think the amount of leverage is the issue, it's the range of motion required. WC racers were skiing out of courses with exagerated stack heights because they couldn't get off their edges fast enough because of the greater range of motion required. It does make sense to use a lower stack binding on fatter skis for this reason.
 
@Philpug et al. I am an advanced but not expert skier, ex-U14 coach, almost exclusively frontside/on piste, who loves to carve but rarely exceeds 40mph. Yes, I'm what my teenage kids call "good for a dad skier." I have an opportunity to get a pair of '22 slightly used Kastle MX83s at a great price which seem hard to find. Only issue holding me up is they have the K13 demo bindings. Is the increased stand height of 32mm vs the 17mm of the regular Attack 13 bindings really going to be noticeable to a non-expert skier on 83mm wide skis? Also, will the decreased coupling really be significant compared to non-demo bindings? Sorry in advance if these answers should have been obvious from above thread.
 
@Philpug et al. I am an advanced but not expert skier, ex-U14 coach, almost exclusively frontside/on piste, who loves to carve but rarely exceeds 40mph. Yes, I'm what my teenage kids call "good for a dad skier." I have an opportunity to get a pair of '22 slightly used Kastle MX83s at a great price which seem hard to find. Only issue holding me up is they have the K13 demo bindings. Is the increased stand height of 32mm vs the 17mm of the regular Attack 13 bindings really going to be noticeable to a non-expert skier on 83mm wide skis? Also, will the decreased coupling really be significant compared to non-demo bindings? Sorry in advance if these answers should have been obvious from above thread.
On an 83m the K13 will be fine.
 
Article is updated with the Demo Binding video ...

 

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