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20 steep slower turns through bumps

SSSdave

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Created and published onto my youtube account, the above short 95 second GoPro8 POV video from a part of the Run 7 video I made on 3/30/2021 last season. This shows a 20 turn clip three consecutive times down the steepest section of Little Dipper that is maybe 60% grade. Shows my recreational slower strategy skiing steep lines in which bumps have evolved into often double turning steps. A reason I am posting this is to with detail and terms, show examples of ever evolving complex recreational bumps with identifiable structures.

On this video, the first two times, turns are numerated in red while the third is not. At beginning and end is an annotated image showing my bump terms. Also below the video frame is a thorough description I've added as a second post herein. Note I am in the process of learning how to use Adobe Premiere 2021 so not too polished haha.

Feel free to ask questions or comment. Note I never taken a ski lesson and have skied bumps 3+ decades. I expect to add more videos to my youtube account from a range of skiing this season.

For the way I ski more common gradient bumps, one might view the top section of that same run:

 
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SSSdave

SSSdave

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Contents of my youtube video description.
----------------------

This video created on March 30, 2021 a firm icy day earlier on my Run 7 down Little Dipper, repeats 3 times the bottom steepest 20 bump turns. The first 2 are annotated with red turn numbers.

L = Left, R = Right. Many bumps in steeps develop saddles on their spines below mound tops as bump skiers make extra rapid turns to reduce speed. Bump forms morph as they erode into orphans and eventually disappear with most orphans on mature steeps. Start of turn numbers positioned at turn compression.

Turns 2,3,4 smooth sequence.
Turn 5 into 6 wanders right.
Turns 7,8,9,10,11,12,13 very nice smooth sequence.
Turns 14 irregular shallow bump as slope eases.
Turns 15,16,17,18,19,20 smaller bump forms.

In order to ski steep irregular eroded bumps, my strategy is to do so with lower speed versus more common gradient moguls. At the end of each turn compression, my eyesight automatically has my motor system momentum gravity dropping into a next turn toward the next turn compression point. My skis automatically angle themselves to smoothly edge on that next surface since I've repeated thousands of those same turns that over decades is brain plasticity developed into my neural muscular system. On bumps with steep noses, I aim across left or right bump faces to the crotch at the base of spine noses. Instead of continuing down a trough, I move up against the next bump to the side, either at its mound top or spine that may have a saddle. There is so little time to think, much has to be done automatically from visual learned motor control.

---------------------------
1 From bump-A slide into shallow split and turn R against bump-B diamond mound top.
2 Turn L across bump-B R face onto spine.

3 With shovels hanging out in air over bump-B spine, quickly pivot R jumping into crotch and up bump-C mound top.
4 On bump-C make quick short L pivot turn across its R face onto spine.

5 Pivot R turning across bump-C L face into crotch and slide over R to orphan mound top bump-D.
6 Turn L on its bump-D R face into an orphan spine bump-E angling left.

7 Turn R on its bump-E L face into its crotch sliding to the top of an eroded mound top of bump-F.
8 Turn L on bump-F R face to its spine without a nose.

9 Turn R across bump-F noseless crotch into bump-G shallow mound top.
10 Turn L beyond bump-G spine saddle on its R face into its noseless spine.

11 Turn R on its bump-G L face into a split and up bump-H mound top.
12 Turn L on its R face to its bump-H spine.

13 Turn R across its L face then crotch and trough to next bump-I orphan spine.
14 Turn L across its crotch sliding down to the spine saddle of bump-J.

15 Turn R on L face to lower bump-J spine.
16 Turn L down bump-J lower R face to crotch then up mound top of bump-K.

17 Turn R on bump-K left face to disappearing nose.
18 As slope gradient eases, turn L into split to bump-L mound top.

19 Turn R on shallow spine
20 Turn L on shallow spine
 

Ken_R

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Yikes. This is exactly why I eat it in moguls quite a few times.

Screen Shot 2021-12-31 at 1.57.09 PM.png
 

Pajarito-bred

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I watched the steep portion of the video first, followed by the upper/less steep section where you appeared more comfortable making carved turns. I've so far in my 50+ year ski career taken one lesson (if I had any as a kid, I can't remember).

Preface: I'm not a ski instructor, and don't make any claims as to be able to describe how to ski. Although I can tell some things from watching the video, it's not a complete picture. Q's: What skis are those? how long, how flexy? They look to have quite a lot of tip rise, not good for carving on groomers, worse in bumps when the outside edges aren't high in the air. Be careful calling those moguls icy, as while they might be "western icy" and toothy, sucky that ain't.

Marcus is wrong, there are moguls that suck, especially the two or three in a row that caused me to be too far in the back seat, more than my poor old ACL could take. (Goshawk at Beaver Creek, old toothy moguls capped with 4" of slushy new snow). Or maybe he's right, it was "something else...."

The one Alpine lesson I've had in the past 50 years was because I somehow got an early-day 1-hour private lesson for free at Snowmass, sometime in the late 90's, shortly after I got my first pair of shaped skis (Salomon X-Scream). While I felt that I might be able to pick up a couple of pointers, I was shocked at how much I was able to learn with a lesson on moderate groomers!
The most important item I learned was "let the ski do the work" It was pointed out that my turns were more Z-shaped than S-shaped, simply looking down the fall line and reaching out to plant the inside pole to initiate the turn, rotating and weighting the outside ski... that's all. Only slightly more complex in moguls, pick your line, plant your pole, on to the next turn!
Watch your hands and your hand shadows.
What stood out from the video is that it appears you aren't reaching out to plant your pole, and this results in over-rotation on some turns, putting you off-balance. Your arm-shadows ought to be zooming out away from your body shadow a whole lot more. It's really surprising how many very good skiers try to make it down the hill using just their skis, poles hanging there primarily for ornamentation, and making in Z-shaped, not S-shaped turns

Secondly, while turning on the spine can be a needed strategy sometimes, using the spine consistently to avoid carving in a perfectly good trough just below might be an indication you aren't comfortable carving into the the trough in steeper, toothier bumps, as well as you'd achieved on the upper, less-steep section. Chopping the spine and turning with just the ski edge under the boot, while effective, could be interpreted as a coping strategy for not feeling able to adequately control your speed through carving.

A couple recommendations: (without knowing anything beyond the videos)
1). Try, on a less-steep, smaller-mogul section, actively reaching out with your pole to start your turn, and resist rapidly turning your skis, let them ride the ski-edge around, regardless of where on the next small mogul the turn takes you.
2. Experiment with different turn/pivot locations in small moguls with moderate pitch, try skiing wide S-turns as well as zipper line quick-as-possible turns. This will help to identify your comfort-limits, and provide some clues as to skills that need developed or practiced. Of course, baring your skiing soul to the critiques of the internet universe is pretty good strategy too, as long as your ego isn't as hard-edged as those moguls.
3. (advice I need to take for myself) Find a group moguls/steeps clinic, you might be surprised at what you learn....
4. When you have an opportunity for soft, powdery bumps, just let it rip for fun, without much (real-time) analysis. Or maybe while skiing with friends, ask them to watch for something specific, like "watch my pole plant, here's what I'm trying to do".
Are you an engineer ;)?
Of course SSSDave must be, there's no other logical explanation!
 
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SSSdave

SSSdave

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This is the full 9 video playlist and note there is Youtube description on the second RUN 1 video as the first video only shows the slope from the chairlift ride:


Each video of 8 show the information you asked about at the beginning. The slope was rather firm and icy when I began at RUN 1 at 11:10am on the sunny spring freeze thaw March 30 day and gradually warmed up though the largest steepest bumps per the 20 turn sequence were least thawed as that slope is directly north facing. The rest of the skier's left more sunny slope became more reasonable about an hour later. Thus avoided skiing that part of the slope till 1:20pm.

Can't say much about the ski's as have skied few modern skis. Tricia and Amy liked them who are my same weight that has turned out well. I did replace the Dynastar Twister pure rec mogul skis I'd skied several years with the SA88's when I found them a better tool for my purposes.

Indeed am not reaching down out to pole plant that those who have been taught comp mogul skiing technique may wonder about. Obviously I don't use a comp mogul skiing style in which higher speed and a quiet upper body are judged factors. Rather like many older bump skiers, am self taught like many skiing from the days when most Tahoe steeper slopes were all pimpled. Reminds me of ugly 1980s bumps down Headwall at Squaw. In any case, judging form from a wide angle helmet mounted POV camera has limitations though the dance of my shadow adds much.

Generally I use gradual upper body countering that arm/hand is part of to increase edging force by inner awareness of feel and balance through a turn and don't care if that requires extra upper body movement and twisting. If you watch the shadows on the less steep videos, you can see how I gradually move my unweighted ski to the outside weighted ski in a stepping motion that facilitates that gradual edging pressure. That is key to better edge grip on a single ski versus usual feet together sliding, especially outside troughs on steep faces beside spines.

As for not choosing to ski down troughs in firm steeps, yes that is a decades old coping strategy as speed control in such bumps is of course more difficult. Skiing spines slower less dynamically like that is an easy way to show off to lift riders where few can cope using any style so maybe that is why I evolved so years ago haha. I also last April did a POV video down a packed powder groomed slope that is also useful for understanding my variable turny playful style.

 
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no edge

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First, do your slow skiing in the trougth where the soft snow is. Flatish ski with a tall stace.

Second, coming over the top of the icy bump is not a good plan. That line almost requires a breaking or blocking action. This leaves you in a disruptive entry to the flat section. It leaves you with skis sideways which is not good. If you enter the flat section after having skied around the icy bump your skis will already be set up to flatten and ski with control. If you can go over the top of the bump and ski the flat section then go ahead and do that. But that line is very advanced skiing and a good skier will usually stay in the fall line.

"Slow line fast" still applies.
 

Philpug

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It is great to have the sun behind you when doing personal MA, it is like having a mirror, in the case with this POV video we are able to benefit from that. What I see is a bit of upper body rotation and hand movement, I think if you can quiet that down, you could be a little more efficient. Pivot slips as a drill might help.
 

WadeHoliday

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Nice controlled skiing Dave!
You put your skis where you want them, when you want them there, create good continuous movement and seem to be the one choosing your speed and rhythm, as opposed to being reactive.

Maybe I'm incorrect, but it didn't feel like you were looking for instruction here, but illustrating your solutions for enjoying long steep bumps fields after years of self taught practice.

I also enjoy skiing a slow, methodical line down bumps and finding ways to create "no' impact, for enjoyment, problem solving and exercise. I had to ski more aggressively and down the zipper line to pass my psia full cert many years ago, but I never enjoyed it as much. I'd say my turn areas and choices have a lot in common with yours, but I probably make bit longer, rounder turns to link those nice turn initiation areas you chose.

Thx for sharing and the nice map of bump topography.

Cheers!
W
 

Jerez

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Loved the videos. @Philpug is right, having the sun behind you and the raking light on the moguls really gives the viewer the sensation of skiing it with you. I wish more bump instructional videos were done this way. You can really see the line choices. Thanks for sharing.
 

LiquidFeet

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Nice controlled skiing Dave!
You put your skis where you want them, when you want them there, create good continuous movement and seem to be the one choosing your speed and rhythm, as opposed to being reactive.

Maybe I'm incorrect, but it didn't feel like you were looking for instruction here, but illustrating your solutions for enjoying long steep bumps fields after years of self taught practice.

I also enjoy skiing a slow, methodical line down bumps and finding ways to create "no' impact, for enjoyment, problem solving and exercise. I had to ski more aggressively and down the zipper line to pass my psia full cert many years ago, but I never enjoyed it as much. I'd say my turn areas and choices have a lot in common with yours, but I probably make bit longer, rounder turns to link those nice turn initiation areas you chose.

Thx for sharing and the nice map of bump topography.

Cheers!
W
This.
 

crgildart

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+1 to keeping the hands up and out front. Dropping the inside hand down and back hinders/delays the ability to quickly initiate the next turn/tactic. Rest of it is solidly functional and confident. Ski at your preferred pace. Stop and take a break when you feel tired.. rinse and repeat..
 

LiquidFeet

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@SSSdave, do you have to stop on these long bump runs?

This POV video shows very clearly how you're managing all those hard-snow bumps. It looks to me like you're moseying on down at a nice slow easy pace, no jolts, no effortful body English, no high forces at the apex of your turns, maintaining consistent rhythm with low impact, totally enjoying the run without much outlay of effort. In my imagination, you get all the way down without having to stop. Or maybe once you stop, because, well, to enjoy the view.

You appear so smooth at this that, if you didn't need the pole plants, you could be holding a cigar in one hand and a cocktail in the other and get to the bottom without spilling a drop.
 
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markojp

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First, do your slow skiing in the trougth where the soft snow is. Flatish ski with a tall stace.

Second, coming over the top of the icy bump is not a good plan. That line almost requires a breaking or blocking action. This leaves you in a disruptive entry to the flat section. It leaves you with skis sideways which is not good. If you enter the flat section after having skied around the icy bump your skis will already be set up to flatten and ski with control. If you can go over the top of the bump and ski the flat section then go ahead and do that. But that line is very advanced skiing and a good skier will usually stay in the fall line.

"Slow line fast" still applies.

Sking spines is a very effective tactic that doesn't require braking or blocking, just solid rotary skills if the skier is properly balanced between their feet and aligned to move down the hill. Whether or not Dave might benefit from some technical coaching isn't the issue... he didn't ask for MA, so none given, but it was fun to see tactical choices that are often overlooked.
 
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SSSdave

SSSdave

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Thanks everyone for the discussion, all is welcome, I'm easy. First, didn't know what to expect posting these videos but hoped they would lead to some broader casual discussion of mogul skiing beyond usual competitive mogul skiing styles members tend to talk about.

Second, I hoped to move into interest understanding and terming of the forms in bump slopes because there has always been so little mentioned way back through the magazine media era beyond terms mound and trough. There is much more structure if one looks closely though it is not so simple because ideal mogul forms erode due to weight and movement on ski edges, morphing in ways that result in a variety of intermediate forms before disappearing. How bump forms change is dependent on a list of factors like snow quality, weather, frequency of new snow, technique of those skiing, frequency of skier traffic, and slope gradient.

Third, an unexpected result of my last April's GoPro8 POV video work, over the summer, has been that watching has a significant value mentally connecting to my own skiing mental neural motor memories. If focused so on a display monitor, my internal body can closely feel like I am actually doing the skiing again that I believe by repeatedly watching actually enhances through neural plasticity brain structure. Our minds become what we do and experience. The more one repeats an experience, especially involving motor movement, the more our brain structures develop. Even if such is only mentally imagining memories. Because a helmet POV mount is close to the position of our Earth creaturely eyes from which our brain's executive control, controls motor movement, it can be experienced in a natural way for that inner mind pilot.

Ironically to this point one will probably not find any Internet skiing POV videos which take advantage of this. Part of the reason is almost all published youtube videos have had music dubbed over whatever natural sound was recorded and such is usually loud and rowdy that works against recalling subtleties of one's inner mind. Another factor has been only recent GoPro models have overcome earlier audio and camera shake issues that made such videos annoying haha. Image stabilization technology today is vastly better than just a decade ago. Current models have incredible microphone audio for capturing the sound of ski edges against snow surfaces without wind on microphone noise. Point the camera down in a wide angle mode so a frame includes part of one's ski shovels. Note how the Sun is casting one's shadow. Notice how light on snow surfaces is showing detail without being harsh. There will be only modest periods when such lighting is optimal. Short recordings have value. I am dead certain some of you instructors will also immediately upon recording yourselves see this too so am looking forward to reading other's input.

Note because of telecom bandwidth issues youtube strongly compresses published uploads so watching youtube videos online is noticeably inferior in resolution detail to watching even a 1080p recorded video directly from one's hard drive, especially more effective viewing via a larger quality monitor. All that annoying stuff that looks like blowing white snow on surfaces is just youtube compression noise.
 
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SSSdave

SSSdave

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Loved the videos. @Philpug is right, having the sun behind you and the raking light on the moguls really gives the viewer the sensation of skiing it with you. I wish more bump instructional videos were done this way. You can really see the line choices. Thanks for sharing.

Exactly!
 
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SSSdave

SSSdave

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@SSSdave, do you have to stop o,n these long bump runs?...
Regardless of how smooth each turn is, one is expending more energy than just walking around just like is the case when easily bouncing on a trampoline or walking down a long case of stairs. With youtube if one selects the person publishing a video, a listing of all that person's videos will display with Playlists last. On my listing is just one playlist to this point this thread has been pointing to. My smoothest of the 8 runs without bobbles was RUN 5 when I had reached the point in my skiing day I was locked into The Zone with much motor movement flowing out automatically with little necessary control from the pilot. This shows I skied down from 9470 to 9170 feet or an even 300 vertical feet. One will count 60 total turns thus 300/60= 5 feet of vertical average per turn though because of the wide angle POV camera it doesn't look like I am dropping so much each turn. By looking at the frame upper right corner one will noticed the actual size of these bumps or by watching the first of the playlist chair lift ride video. All that vertical needs to be absorbed. During that ski day I stopped twice all but the 2 times I stopped just once. My interest as an old guy skiing not in any hurry, is enjoying the fun exhilarating rhythmic visceral sensations until such as @crgildart noted
"Stop and take a break when you feel tired.. rinse and repeat.."

 
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