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Cage Match Comparison 2017 Masters and Beer League GS Skis

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ScotsSkier

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Bump to ask whether this still applies with recent models: are the Blizzard WRC and Nordica GSM (both with piston) similar, and are they both at the high end of race performance for skis with radius around 20m?
Yes, still very similar and at the higher end performance wise. Also now there is the Augment GS pro which is another quantum leap ahead and closer to a real GS ski than any of the others in this category but also at a premium price
 

DocGKR

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Looking forward to trying these Augment World Cup Pro Masters GS skis that recently fell into my lap!

Augment.jpg
 

Don'tfit

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The current Nordica GSM at 20.5meters is at 185cm in length. I skied it a couple of times last season and it is a lot of lumber. Best to know the tendencies of the sets where you are going to use it. That can be a big 20m if you're hanging out waiting for feedback from that ski.
 

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The current Nordica GSM at 20.5meters is at 185cm in length. I skied it a couple of times last season and it is a lot of lumber. Best to know the tendencies of the sets where you are going to use it. That can be a big 20m if you're hanging out waiting for feedback from that ski.
Anyone have a comparison with this or similar (WRC etc) skis with long U16 GS skis of similar length (around 25-27m radius)?
 

Lorenzzo

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Well…the Atomic FIS slaloms seem to be really scarce in fact right now I can’t find any. Any suggestions as to what might be similar, particularly in terms of engagement?
 
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James

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JTurner

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Anyone have a comparison with this or similar (WRC etc) skis with long U16 GS skis of similar length (around 25-27m radius)?
Well, not specifically that ski, but every 18-23 meter GS cheater ski I’ve tried has basically automatically initiated a turn when rolled up on edge. In comparison, the 182/25m head RD ski just wants to go straight even when tipped up a fair bit. It actually completes turns almost as easily because it isn’t super stiff longitudinally, but you have to initiate the turns correctly. That’s the primary thing I think most people just trying them would notice.

Beyond that the other big difference is the straighter and narrower ski is smoother and more stable in rutted courses.
Generally free skiing this makes the cheaters more fun, but they’re not as fast in courses.
 

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"Beyond that the other big difference is the straighter and narrower ski is smoother and more stable in rutted courses. Generally free skiing this makes the cheaters more fun, but they’re not as fast in courses."

What a great comment! The 18-21m or so radius (often 67-70mm wide) recreational, sport-carver, "cheater" pseudo-GS skis I've tried respond exactly as you describe--lots of fun free-skiing, easy to turn, but not as fast, stable, or capable in the race course as the 25-30m radius 65mm wide real GS skis. Some of the 21-23m "GS" skis sort of bridge the gap between these two extremes.
 

DocGKR

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I finally have gotten some time on the Augment Race Pro GS that were given to me. First of all, these are NOT skis I would likely use for Masters GS racing, as they are too wide (68mm), not long enough (181cm), and have too short a turn radius (21m) for my size--maybe they would work for Nastar or Beer League.

For Masters GS, definitely get the 65mm wide Augment WC FIS GS in 183/25m or better yet the 188/30m--these work fabulously for Masters GS racing!

Having clarified that, the Augment Race Pro GS (68mm/181cm/21m) is a very fun sport carving ski which has tremendous edge hold when carving, good rebound energy, and is surprisingly fun in bumps. I'll compare it to some other longer radius recreational sport carving "pseudo-GS" skis laying around here. While offering similar carving performance to the Head Rebel i.Speed (68mm/180cm/18m), the Augment is substantially smoother and more refined. The Nordica Doberman GSR RB (69mm/185cm/20.5m) is perhaps a bit more powerful, however it is not as much fun or as nimble and easy to ski as the Augment. The Stockli Laser GS (68mm/185cm/19.4m) is similarly smooth and fun, but compared to the Augment does not have quite as much rebound energy, nor is it as capable in bumps, although the Laser GS is nicer in a few inches of soft snow.
 

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There are of course exceptions, but I've found that as a general rule, one way to look at the types of cheater and race skis being described are to put them into three broad categories, slalom/slalom-like, in between/quick edge to edge (but often not as fully flexing as the slalom skis), and gs feel/type skis. Skis in the "in between" of around 180/18, e.g., both Stockli and Head versions, have to me a quick rebound optimally when not flexing as much as the slaloms; they do not feel like a gs ski either. From about 183 (and even more, 185), there is a transition to real, characteristic gs feel and dynamic, whether it is the Head Pro RWC RD 185 iSpeed at one end, or a 188/30 FIS GS ski (or a men's FIS spec gs ski also) at near the other extreme (for a gs ski). To me, both the SL lengths/radii and the GS lengths/radii flex more fully, optimally, and make more "in the groove" turns, either short turn or long. The "in between" skis, on the other hand, can be made to flex more fully also, but they have a great, quick rebound quality to them, that is in not so fully flexing.

Some years ago, I watched a video of Franz Klammer in retirement on Head iSpeed Rebel World Cup RD 180/18 skis (not the Pro version), and he was making very quick edge to edge turns, in bumps and on groomers, in the fall line but not fully flexing (to optimize rebound). If you had no idea who he was, he was still obviously an elite skier, but not fully flexing that ski, as I'm saying.
 
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anders_nor

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Well I'm officially old and doing masters and need something easier to ski, stockli RD GS FIS 193 is a bit too much for me and our masters training courses, coaches suggest 23-27m.

looking at the G9 RS revo aka their master racing ski I'm torn between sizes and radi, I'm 189-190cm, and 110KG, so which one do I go for? 190cm and R 27.5 or 183 and R24?

I used to ski a FIS GS as a daily when I was younger, I guess we can say I'm not young anymore, not that much muscle, still same weight, and my teqnique is down "a bit".
 
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Well I'm officially old and doing masters and need something easier to ski, Stöckli RD GS FIS 193 is a bit too much for me and our masters training courses, coaches suggest 23-27m.

looking at the G9 RS revo aka their master racing ski I'm torn between sizes and radi, I'm 189-190cm, and 110KG, so which one do I go for? 190cm and R 27.5 or 183 and R24?

I used to ski a FIS GS as a daily when I was younger, I guess we can say I'm not young anymore, not that much muscle, still same weight, and my teqnique is down "a bit".
I would be wary of the Atomic Masters skis, they are a little wider in the waist than the FIS skis and as a result a bit slower edge to edge. Most of my athletes that were using it switched back to the U16 FIS 186/26 ski (tweener) instead. However i suspect the tweener might be a little light at your weight. It would be worth trying the G9 FIS W in 188/30 if you have the opportunity, a bit more suited for Masters than the 193/30 FIS M
 

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At 183cm and 95kg, I find the Dynastar/Rossi 185cm/27m with 65mm waist to work well when not feeling up for a 188/30m. Also check out the Augment 183/25m and 188/30m w/65mm waists.
 

anders_nor

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I would be wary of the Atomic Masters skis, they are a little wider in the waist than the FIS skis and as a result a bit slower edge to edge. Most of my athletes that were using it switched back to the U16 FIS 186/26 ski (tweener) instead. However i suspect the tweener might be a little light at your weight. It would be worth trying the G9 FIS W in 188/30 if you have the opportunity, a bit more suited for Masters than the 193/30 FIS M
hmm speed edge to edge has not been the issue sadly, mental attitude, position, edge angle and confidence in myself/skis.

I'm fat enough to generate some bendy forces though, but just not good enough for the 193.

Could some older 188 ladies R27 FIS work? browsing local race stuff and looking at older head I.gs RD 188cm 104 69 89 R27.8

but waist is is 69, so even wider than the atomic RS which is 67.5? is that EVEN an ex FIS ski or just a wrong listing?
https://shop.atomic.com/en-dk/products/redster-g9-rs-revo-aa5183.html foratomic specs


hmm @DocGKR ref dynastar/rossi... I think I might have a 185 R27 65mm somewhere... I havent skied them in a few years, P18? PX18's will have a browse through my old racy stuff

GF is rossi 176cm R23 U14? U16? skis which seems to workout good so far, but not much edge left so need to figure out if just go with that length/radius or something else when they are done.
 

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Hi, @anders_nor, I'm a lighter weight skier (150/5'11") and want to second the 188/30 recommendation. As an added bonus, it's just a really fun ski recreationally - you may very well end up keeping it in your quiver for that purpose, if nothing else. I've found them easier to turn (esp. at speed) than the 183/23 or 183/30 GS versions, perhaps surprisingly - maybe because the length to radius seems more matched or dialed in, not sure. (I have and like the 183/23s, but ski them differently at times, not full on flexing, more edge to edge.)

If your gates are set for shorter skis/radius, then maybe not; but, honest, the 188/30s are so dialed in, at least for a lighter to medium weight person.

In addition, I own three of them currently, a Volkl and two Atomics (double deck and G9). All three are very different. (The double deck, surprisingly, is stiffer - maybe a stiffer medium flex - and it's the one I prefer. The Volkl happens to be too soft flexing, to me, by comparison, and the G9 in between; more laid back than the stiffer double deck. My point here is that there is a large variation from ski to ski within that 188/30 range. Since you are larger, you would probably be a fan of a bit stiffer version than me, but not sure: these things rock. (And I have @ScotsSkier to thank for both the suggestion and two of the three pairs!)
 

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All 188/30 are womens specific FIS ski right now? correct?

I found this golden oldie hiding in the deepest corner of my downstairs ski storage. I remember I used this everywhere.



2022-01-19 17.00.36.jpg

2022-01-19 17.00.33.jpg
 
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All 188/30 are womens specific FIS ski right now? correct?

I found this golden oldie hiding in the deepest corner of my downstairs ski storage. I remember I used this everywhere.



View attachment 155875
View attachment 155876
yeah, here's some advice. Pull the bindings and throw it away!

it wasn't even a very good ski at the time. That ski is 12-14 years old and bears absolutely no resemblance to the current 188/30s in how it skis. If you are having trouble making the turns currently that one will make it even worse. ogsmile
 

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Do you know a shop that has access to flex tested/marked race skis? Nothing too special, just a bit above no markings.
You could pick a somewhat stiffer version of whatever. Could be a few years old.
 

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