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California/Nevada 2020-2021 Tahoe Ski Resorts/Conditions/Meetups

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Pat AKA mustski

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^^^ true. But ... I thought MMI required crating or day care? When we bring the dogs, unless we are RVing it, we rent this cute cabin in June Lake. It's a bit of a drive but it saves $$$
 

Paul Lutes

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May be different in the heart of the season, but in the Spring when I traditionally make my pilgrimage there's never been any issues with loose dogs unaccompanied in rooms, as long as you keep the cleaning staff informed.
 

skibob

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I hate to be the one to raise this question, but is Kirkwood (and/or Sierra) in danger from the Caldor fire? About 12 miles from the front of the fire. In 2017 the Tubbs fire covered that distance in . . . 4 hours. Those were extraordinary conditions (hurricane force winds in particular). I don't think Caldor is seeing anything like that. But, just a little worried . . .
 

raytseng

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Good question, but I'm afraid only time will tell.


I found a good resource for getting a high level on all these fires/ fire activity is caltopo.com (free) which is a backpackers/hiking online mappingservice.

Although the data source info is probably the same as what you can see elsewhere; the UI is pretty easy to use to select layers for the fire activity and you can also switch around the basemap. The built-in search to move the map around works pretty smoothly too.

 

SSSdave

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The fire would need to burn through a lot of miles to do so. If the fire did reach that far east that is unlikely, it would only threaten Kirkwood if winds were extra strong blowing embers because at higher elevations forest tends to be sparse or bare rock except down in stream canyons. To reach Sierra-At-Tahoe the fire would need to move far up the SF of the American River canyon however because the major US50 highway routes all the way up that canyon with many perpendicular spur roads, firefighters would have excellent access to stop movement east the whole way. If things got bad they could set backfires late at night when breezes usually reverse moving down canyon. During days breezes usually move up due to day heating in the Central Valley heating and expanding air that then pushes up canyons. Also the general global air flow at these temperate latitudes is west to east. Look at the amount of vegetation on this satellite map:


More ominous is the possibility early next week given a forecast change in winds to east to west, for the large numbers of structures to the west below national forest boundaries within combustible forest. During the last few decades the lower hot dry elevations given proximity to Sacramento has seen a great amount of development. Anytime I drive those secondary roads looking at all the trees and vegetation around homes and ranchettes I wonder how those areas could survive a serious wind driven fire.

 

skibob

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The fire would need to burn through a lot of miles to do so. If the fire did reach that far east that is unlikely, it would only threaten Kirkwood if winds were extra strong blowing embers because at higher elevations forest tends to be sparse or bare rock except down in stream canyons. To reach Sierra-At-Tahoe the fire would need to move far up the SF of the American River canyon however because the major US50 highway routes all the way up that canyon with many perpendicular spur roads, firefighters would have excellent access to stop movement east the whole way. If things got bad they could set backfires late at night when breezes usually reverse moving down canyon. During days breezes usually move up due to day heating in the Central Valley heating and expanding air that then pushes up canyons. Also the general global air flow at these temperate latitudes is west to east. Look at the amount of vegetation on this satellite map:


More ominous is the possibility early next week given a forecast change in winds to east to west, for the large numbers of structures to the west below national forest boundaries within combustible forest. During the last few decades the lower hot dry elevations given proximity to Sacramento has seen a great amount of development. Anytime I drive those secondary roads looking at all the trees and vegetation around homes and ranchettes I wonder how those areas could survive a serious wind driven fire.

Your point about decreasing fuel with elevation gives me hope. The distance however doesn't mean much to me. Dixie has sustained a vastly longer march so far and is not atypical. Also, so long as they can fly, Kirkwood has a good sized lake right there and good access by road obviously. I am optimistic firefighters would be able to make a stand and protect the area. They probably wouldn't consider protecting the upper roundhouses, but those are largely vegetation free anyway.
 

raytseng

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I think though the issue is there are so many large fires that resources are thin; by the time the incident can get resources available and organized; regular fires are already megafires and the mission shifts to just protect life and maybe critical structures that had really good defensible space already setup and a chance.
It becomes more like a response to lava, where you will just let it pass over/through, I don't realistically they will actually "fight" the fire neither directly nor indirectly for awhile.
 

4ster

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I hate to be the one to raise this question, but is Kirkwood (and/or Sierra) in danger from the Caldor fire?


The wind died overnight so I would guess forward progress of the Caldor fire has decreased. From what I gather Kyburz was evacuated last night & firefighting manpower is focused mainly on protecting structures as resources are spread thin.
06351117-0C88-4C89-A5EF-2FBAB7A58588.jpeg

Sierra is probably more threatened than Kirkwood at this time.
 

4ster

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This post from Sierra-at-Tahoe
Over the last few days, the Caldor fire has grown to more than 50,000 acres prompting the USFS to order the closure of the Eldorado National Forest. The order prohibits the use of areas, roads, and trails until the closure is lifted. With our resort located on national forest land, we cannot allow access for any hiking or biking at this time. While we are not currently in the evacuation area, we are monitoring the situation closely and taking precautionary measures to protect the resort.

Here are a few resources where you can stay informed on the status of the fire, the forest closure, evacuation orders, shelters and assistance for those affected.


We'd like to extend our immense gratitude to the firefighters and emergency response crews involved. And to our friends and family who have been affected, we're here for you and offer our support in any way we can. Please stay safe and be prepared.

#SierraAtTahoe #CaldorFire

72BCC4B9-AC87-4229-828E-7C7648BE4472.jpeg
 
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Chris V.

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I found a good resource for getting a high level on all these fires/ fire activity is caltopo.com (free) which is a backpackers/hiking online mappingservice.
The most up to date and detailed information is to be found on two sites:

o https://inciweb.nwcg.gov is the most user-friendly and has both maps and narrative updates.

o https://ftp.wildfire.gov/public/incident_specific_data/calif_n/ is basically an FTP site, but has very detailed maps in PDF and KML formats, if you know where to find them. Hunt around the directories, find the directory for the individual incident of interest to you, and look for an "IR" subdirectory.
 

Chris V.

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I hate to be the one to raise this question, but is Kirkwood (and/or Sierra) in danger from the Caldor fire? About 12 miles from the front of the fire. In 2017 the Tubbs fire covered that distance in . . . 4 hours. Those were extraordinary conditions (hurricane force winds in particular). I don't think Caldor is seeing anything like that. But, just a little worried . . .
The pattern with several other big fires this year has been that even modest winds will sometimes lead to very rapid downwind spread, including jumping lines by up to several miles in a matter of minutes. It's been the combined effects of exceptionally dry fuels and wind-driven events. These haven't even been unusually strong winds. You can see the effects by looking at how the Dixie Fire has spread over time. First there were big fingers moving north, then moving east, then moving south, depending on shifts in prevailing winds.

With respect to SSSDave, one can no longer assume that a fire's spread will be limited to any particular pace. Again, the most dramatic events have included fires suddenly jumping lines by miles.

We've been seeing considerable burning even of sparse, high elevation forests in rocky terrain. It's fair to expect that the devastation won't be as complete as it can be in denser stands, and terrain will generally protect pockets of forest from being burned. Foresters speak of a "mosaic" pattern of burning. With Kirkwood having a lot of rocky ground and wetlands breaking the fuels up into isolated blocks, I would hope for the loss of forest cover to be limited, if fire were to reach the area. But make no mistake, it would still be a considerable threat to homes and other structures. The base of Sierra at Tahoe is in an exceptionally beautiful old growth forest. Unfortunately, this high elevation old growth has been proving vulnerable to devastation under the "right" weather conditions, so keep fingers crossed.

My take on things is that the chickens are really coming home to roost. I think that we're in huge danger of losing most of our forest cover in the northern California dry forests--Sierra Nevada, northern Coast Ranges, Klamath Mountains, and Cascades. Deadly for the giant sequoias, too. A hundred years from now, the Sierra Nevada might resemble today's Great Basin desert ranges. And climate models are pointing to a likelihood of a loss of 95% of the Sierra Nevada snow pack by the end of the century, so you can forget about skiing.
 
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Pequenita

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My take on things is that the chickens are really coming home to roost. I think that we're in huge danger of losing most of our forest cover in the northern California dry forests, Sierra Nevada, northern Coast Ranges, Klamath Mountains, and Cascades. Deadly for the giant sequoias, too. A hundred years from now, the Sierra Nevada might resemble today's Great Basin desert ranges. And climate models are pointing to a likelihood of a loss of 95% of the Sierra Nevada snow pack by the end of the century, so you can forget about skiing.

:( I don't think it's going to be even a hundred years.

I certainly didn't expect such intense changes, that have already occurred, in my lifetime, and I'm from the "hole in the ozone layer" generation of environmentalists.
 

raytseng

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The most up to date and detailed information is to be found on two sites:

o https://inciweb.nwcg.gov is the most user-friendly and has both maps and narrative updates.

o https://ftp.wildfire.gov/public/incident_specific_data/calif_n/ is basically an FTP site, but has very detailed maps in PDF and KML formats, if you know where to find them. Hunt around the directories, find the directory for the individual incident of interest to you, and look for an "IR" subdirectory.

Agree, these are great sites for those wanting to dig deep. I'll add on if there is a local fire station or district to the fire; their fb page may have additional narratives with a little more color that does not in the official incident website or linked official site.
 

skibob

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The pattern with several other big fires this year has been that even modest winds will sometimes lead to very rapid downwind spread, including jumping lines by up to several miles in a matter of minutes. It's been the combined effects of exceptionally dry fuels and wind-driven events. These haven't even been unusually strong winds. You can see the effects by looking at how the Dixie Fire has spread over time. First there were big fingers moving north, then moving east, then moving south, depending on shifts in prevailing winds.

With respect to SSSDave, one can no longer assume that a fire's spread will be limited to any particular pace. Again, the most dramatic events have included fires suddenly jumping lines by miles.

We've been seeing considerable burning even of sparse, high elevation forests in rocky terrain. It's fair to expect that the devastation won't be as complete as it can be in denser stands, and terrain will generally protect pockets of forest from being burned. Foresters speak of a "mosaic" pattern of burning. With Kirkwood having a lot of rocky ground and wetlands breaking the fuels up into isolated blocks, I would hope for the loss of forest cover to be limited, if fire were to reach the area. But make no mistake, it would still be a considerable threat to homes and other structures. The base of Sierra at Tahoe is in an exceptionally beautiful old growth forest. Unfortunately, this high elevation old growth has been proving vulnerable to devastation under the "right" weather conditions, so keep fingers crossed.

My take on things is that the chickens are really coming home to roost. I think that we're in huge danger of losing most of our forest cover in the northern California dry forests--Sierra Nevada, northern Coast Ranges, Klamath Mountains, and Cascades. Deadly for the giant sequoias, too. A hundred years from now, the Sierra Nevada might resemble today's Great Basin desert ranges. And climate models are pointing to a likelihood of a loss of 95% of the Sierra Nevada snow pack by the end of the century, so you can forget about skiing.
I just read that the Dixie fire has become the first ever to cross the Sierra crest and burn on both sides. Sigh.
 

SSSdave

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SR88-KW.jpg

Google Earth image shows why Kirkwood is obviously naturally well protected from most wildfires due to large expanses of surrounding glaciated granite landscapes with very limited zones of dense trees. Also a reason wildfires despite frequent small lightning fires are not much a danger to much of the High Sierra we backpackers visit south of the Emigrant Basin Yosemite region. Note north facing Kirkwood itself is covered by volcanic geology with a mature sparse timberline forest. The orange arrow shows the one route a fire could take. The Caldor fire is off the image at lower left corner and moving off the the left of the map by winds that for what that's worth, are not forecast to change over the next week.
 
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Tony

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In this year of unprecedented fire behavior, I think it's possible for Caldor fire to come up the Silver Fork of the American River into Caples Creek through Kirkwood Lake, then into Kirkwood from there as there is a lot of forest in the area. While the top of Kirkwood does not have many trees, the bases of most lifts and a lot of the infrastructure is surrounded by trees so if the wind comes up, especially from NW, and there are not enough resources available to stop it, the fire could burn homes in Kirkwood and damage the ski area. This link shows Caldor fire outline and Kirkwood.

From (1) Unofficial Kirkwood Community | Facebook posted Friday afternoon:
1. The Amador County half of Kirkwood (the west side) is now under evacuation warning. A warning is not an order to leave, but means you need to be ready to get out on short notice.
2. US 50 is closed between Twin Bridges and Pollock Pines. As a result, Traffic will be heavier than usual on 88, with evacuee, emergency, and commercial traffic.
3. There is a red flag fire warning for tomorrow, Saturday April 21.
There is still not an immediate risk to Kirkwood or areas close by, because the seasonal prevailing wind wants to push the Caldor Fire mostly to the northeast towards Tahoe, but weather is fickle and forecasts change, so the risk may change at any time.
Please avoid the area.

In other news Mountain High has bought Dodge Ridge which will join the Powder Alliance. That means if you have a Season pass (usually requires ab unlimited pass) at Mountain High, China Peak, Dodge Ridge or Sierra-at-Tahoe in CA you get three free days (usually not including Saturdays or holidays) at the other CA ski areas and 10 other ski areas in Western US and Canada plus Kiroro in Japan. See powderalliance.com
 
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