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Arizona/New Mexico 2021-2022 Four Corners Ski Resorts/Conditions/Meetups

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Dryheat

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View attachment 172012
It looks to be a modest expansion, mostly Lift replacements or new short lifts and some new trails. all within the existing permit area
The San Francisco Peaks were declares something along the lines of a national wilderness area. It had to do with the pumice mining that went on in the 70s or 80s (Someone please correct me)

As a result the SUP area cannot be increased.

This was about the third guardian advocacy
driven article I've read in the last 6 months attacking Arizona. Whatever Brit they sent over to write must be a real fun person to have at a party.
 

RobSN

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This was about the third guardian advocacy
driven article I've read in the last 6 months attacking Arizona. Whatever Brit they sent over to write must be a real fun person to have at a party.
The Grauniad (as it was named by the satirical magazine Private Eye in the 1960's due to its massive number of spelling errors) is a VERY left-wing progressive paper in the UK. The article is absolutely 100% the kind of article one expects of the paper. Oh, and as a naturalized US citizen from Britain, I assure you that I did not write the article!!!
 

raisingarizona

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The Grauniad (as it was named by the satirical magazine Private Eye in the 1960's due to its massive number of spelling errors) is a VERY left-wing progressive paper in the UK. The article is absolutely 100% the kind of article one expects of the paper. Oh, and as a naturalized US citizen from Britain, I assure you that I did not write the article!!!
The whole liberal white guilt bit is getting old imo. There are traditional natives that feel the ski area and the snowmaking are sacrilege, there are plenty of natives that don’t really care and there are natives that enjoy skiing, snowboarding and a good amount that would happily ride the chair if there was a bike park in the summer. And yeah to what liftblog said, the Apache tribe is fine with using reclaimed water on their own ski area that’s located in sacred mountains and are very vocal against Snowbowl (their only competitor in the state) doing the same.

This may be insensitive but too damn bad, the religious argument can only be taken so far. A line has to be drawn because we can only do so much to accommodate every different faiths imaginary friends.
 

Dryheat

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Background for the non-locals reading this, there was a SCOTUS level fight over snowmaking 10 years ago.

From a legal perspective, disallowing snowmaking due to religious freedom of the tribes would have been the first time and set the precedent of allowing tribes to assert religious freedom on land they did not own

It would've been a very significant precedent for skiers and beyond, as many tall mountains or other natural features are viewed as spiritually significant by any number of potential plaintiffs, first nations or not.
 

New2

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And yeah to what liftblog said, the Apache tribe is fine with using reclaimed water on their own ski area that’s located in sacred mountains and are very vocal against Snowbowl (their only competitor in the state) doing the same.
I don't think that Sunrise uses reclaimed water. The Guardian article says that Snowbowl, a ski area in California, and one in Montana are the only ones. The White Mountains get enough precipitation that I imagine their ponds refill naturally... but if they were going to pump it would make a lot more sense to pump from Sunrise Reservoir or groundwater than to try to get treated graywater from Showlow or Pinetop.

Background for the non-locals reading this, there was a SCOTUS level fight over snowmaking 10 years ago.

From a legal perspective, disallowing snowmaking due to religious freedom of the tribes would have been the first time and set the precedent of allowing tribes to assert religious freedom on land they did not own

It would've been a very significant precedent for skiers and beyond, as many tall mountains or other natural features are viewed as spiritually significant by any number of potential plaintiffs, first nations or not.

Snowbowl was basically paralyzed with legal and administrative hurtles from ~1985-2015. And it sounds like the Forest Service is back to freezing progress once again. But none of that was technically about the ski area's right to exist--and, as the Guardian article makes clear--there are a decent number of local and regional Native Americans who want the ski area permanently closed.

I'm not sure what the end game is really, but it has to be concerning that the Sierra Club is funding anti-Snowbowl efforts. They've got a track record of sticking with issues for decades, if necessary, and derailing plenty of things they opposed--reframing the conversation in order to achieve their goals. I can definitely envision a press conference a few years from now with all 13 tribes, the feds, and Mountain Capital Partners announcing a deal to pay MCP a bunch of money to walk away and dismantle the resort. Locals and skiers... meh, who needs 'em?
 

raisingarizona

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The tribes and the Sierra Club aren’t going to pay MCP to walk away and MCP isn’t going to give up their most profitable property.

They’ll continue to block the summer activities expansion proposal because that’s what they do and the local Sierra Club needs to have content for their monthly newsletters but closing down the ski area? That’s definitely not happening.
 

Dryheat

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I don't think that Sunrise uses reclaimed water. The Guardian article says that Snowbowl, a ski area in California, and one in Montana are the only ones. The White Mountains get enough precipitation that I imagine their ponds refill naturally... but if they were going to pump it would make a lot more sense to pump from Sunrise Reservoir or groundwater than to try to get treated graywater from Showlow or Pinetop.
Not specifically to you,

I would advise Sunrise to come up with an operating model, snow making and otherwise, to enable them to stay open longer than the 3rd week of March. Until they do, they're of little relevancy.
 
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Dryheat

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Scottsdale_Ski

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A little more information for the non-Snowbowl locals to ponder. Regarding the use of "reclaimed water" for snowmaking at Snowbowl: the water purification standard used in water reclaimed for snowmaking is the same standard as that used for potable (drinking) water. Snowbowl's owners were unwilling to apply for potable water certification, however, since they stated that the cost of such certification was not needed since none of the reclaimed water was to be used for human consumption.

Government agencies signed off on both the water purification standard and the decision not to obtain a "potable-water" certification.

The "Indigenous Religion/Sacred Mountain" argument, IMHO, never really withstood close examination.

First, the ski area is located on National Forest land, and thus is subject to the "multiple use mandate", which specifically lists recreation as an approved use.

Second, the ski area operators worked hard to reach out to, and provide special access for, tribal elders & religious practitioners, despite the fact that Snowbowl occupies a small fraction of the San Francisco Peaks (roughly 4%).

Third, opposition to Snowbowl has been limited to a tiny minority of militant indigenous activists and extreme environmentalists (see "Earth First" for more details). These activists have been determined for decades to shut down Snowbowl "by any means necessary": tactics have included protests, multiple lawsuits covering every possible avenue (regardless of merit, with the openly stated intent of indefinitely delaying any improvements and burdening ski area ownership with endless legal fees), and even sabotage of chairlifts to endanger skiers.

(NOTE: AZ Snowbowl and the US Forest Service have ultimately prevailed over every legal challenge mounted against them)

Finally, the Navajo Nation profited for many years from a coal mine operated on their reservation. This coal was used to fuel one of the "dirtiest" power plants in the US, whose emissions polluted the air of much of the desert southwest, including both the San Francisco Peaks (their "Sacred Mountain") and the Grand Canyon. It seems disingenuous at the very least, for tribal activists to argue against a ski area "desecrating" a mountain while polluting it themselves.

And yeah, I'm a bit opinionated on this topic...
 

clong83

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I noticed that Pajarito has a job ad out for a resort general manager, reporting directly to MCP. The ad says the applicant will oversee a multimillion dollar capital project to improve the ski area.

That sounds amazing, but I have not heard any other details. Does anyone know what Coleman has planned for Pajarito? I was also curious if this meant Tom Long is stepping down as general manager, or if they are hiring a new GM that is there specifically to oversee the improvement project, but I don't suppose anyone here would know to that level of detail.
 
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Core2

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Sunrise is putting in a t-bar on Cyclone haha. Better than nothing I guess:

Sunrise signed a contract with manufacturer Star Lifts for a Swiss Cord style lift that will operate from the base of “Denny’s Way” to the peak of Cyclone Circle. This Swiss Cord lift will provide access to the coveted and unique terrain of Cyclone Circle for over 5,000 people per day. This will greatly improve access to the mountain that has been limited to hike and snow cat access since the removal of Cyclone Lift 6 in 2017 due to its age and condition. The new lift is scheduled to be installed by the end of 2022.

Progress updates and photos will be posted on our Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, and Website.
 
Thread Starter
TS
Core2

Core2

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A little more information for the non-Snowbowl locals to ponder. Regarding the use of "reclaimed water" for snowmaking at Snowbowl: the water purification standard used in water reclaimed for snowmaking is the same standard as that used for potable (drinking) water. Snowbowl's owners were unwilling to apply for potable water certification, however, since they stated that the cost of such certification was not needed since none of the reclaimed water was to be used for human consumption.

Government agencies signed off on both the water purification standard and the decision not to obtain a "potable-water" certification.

The "Indigenous Religion/Sacred Mountain" argument, IMHO, never really withstood close examination.

First, the ski area is located on National Forest land, and thus is subject to the "multiple use mandate", which specifically lists recreation as an approved use.

Second, the ski area operators worked hard to reach out to, and provide special access for, tribal elders & religious practitioners, despite the fact that Snowbowl occupies a small fraction of the San Francisco Peaks (roughly 4%).

Third, opposition to Snowbowl has been limited to a tiny minority of militant indigenous activists and extreme environmentalists (see "Earth First" for more details). These activists have been determined for decades to shut down Snowbowl "by any means necessary": tactics have included protests, multiple lawsuits covering every possible avenue (regardless of merit, with the openly stated intent of indefinitely delaying any improvements and burdening ski area ownership with endless legal fees), and even sabotage of chairlifts to endanger skiers.

(NOTE: AZ Snowbowl and the US Forest Service have ultimately prevailed over every legal challenge mounted against them)

Finally, the Navajo Nation profited for many years from a coal mine operated on their reservation. This coal was used to fuel one of the "dirtiest" power plants in the US, whose emissions polluted the air of much of the desert southwest, including both the San Francisco Peaks (their "Sacred Mountain") and the Grand Canyon. It seems disingenuous at the very least, for tribal activists to argue against a ski area "desecrating" a mountain while polluting it themselves.

And yeah, I'm a bit opinionated on this topic...
The hypocrisy by the Navajo nation on this topic has always been laughable to me.
 

Dryheat

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Sunrise is putting in a t-bar on Cyclone haha. Better than nothing I guess:

Sunrise signed a contract with manufacturer Star Lifts for a Swiss Cord style lift that will operate from the base of “Denny’s Way” to the peak of Cyclone Circle. This Swiss Cord lift will provide access to the coveted and unique terrain of Cyclone Circle for over 5,000 people per day. This will greatly improve access to the mountain that has been limited to hike and snow cat access since the removal of Cyclone Lift 6 in 2017 due to its age and condition. The new lift is scheduled to be installed by the end of 2022.

Progress updates and photos will be posted on our Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, and Website.
FWIW, I refuse to ski Sunset because its season is shorter than the life of a filled shot-ski glass. But judging from the map, this seems like the tbar is the cheapest most direct way to get people on Cyclone peak. But it does put another spagetti lift on the map on that part of the mountain. Do I really want to ride 3 lifts to get over there....

I'll admit, it's a baby step in the right direction....
 

Lift Blog

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Sunrise is putting in a t-bar on Cyclone haha. Better than nothing I guess:

Sunrise signed a contract with manufacturer Star Lifts for a Swiss Cord style lift that will operate from the base of “Denny’s Way” to the peak of Cyclone Circle. This Swiss Cord lift will provide access to the coveted and unique terrain of Cyclone Circle for over 5,000 people per day. This will greatly improve access to the mountain that has been limited to hike and snow cat access since the removal of Cyclone Lift 6 in 2017 due to its age and condition. The new lift is scheduled to be installed by the end of 2022.

Progress updates and photos will be posted on our Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, and Website.

It's actually a rope tow, not a T-Bar.
 

dbostedo

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