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Colorado 2021-2022 Colorado Ski Resorts/Conditions/Meetups

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nay

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Last year at LL was such a s@!tshoe that I won’t be buying a pass there for the first time in many years.
I think the other thing was “skiing was allowed” and we all went crazy, for good reason, and Loveland took a big hit of people buying/using 4 packs early. Demand looks soft everywhere right now and it’s not like we typically have anything more than High Noon / Home Run and now whatever opens at Keystone available on Nov 2nd.

The current levels look lower than recent pre-COVID years to me. It’s snowing again at Loveland and there’s nobody there. Last year this lot was completely full for one run. It’d love to say it’s weird how humans flock these days, but maybe there’s no reason to present an early ski day on social media in 2021 and so we’re back to more typical demand.

D9E5CFCD-ABCF-4EE8-9F01-8D4915068E16.jpeg

I’m not sure what the future holds for Loveland demand as all the spare dirt in Georgetown is being turned into density lodging / townhomes, but this at least looks normal. Imagine how bad it sucked last year for the staff, and we are seeing ripples of loss of long term employees everywhere. There are a LOT of new faces at A-Basin, and I think that, unfortunately, says a lot about the long term impact of COVID.

I read an article recently that said that Silverthorne is now the most expensive rental market in the U.S. - average monthly rent > $3,500 and that’s more than San Francisco or NY. This is why I’m buying a place in Gunnison (close on Friday!) - it feels like now or never and I-70 is out of reach and too crowded. Pivoting to the Rt. 50 corridor and to the SW of there also feels like the future.

The Front Range is fully discovered end to end even in little ole COS, we are California in 1990. Western Slope, baby. Our home here at 7,400’ is the mountain house, Gunnison is the valley house. Ski from the valley.
 

ski otter 2

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Having looked at houses/condos purchase prices for two years in Summit, Dillon Valley was cheapest, then next cheapest parts of Summit Cove and Silverthorne, then semi-upscale Silverthorne, then all of Frisco, and most expensive - Breck, in that order.

I looked for a long term rental also for close to three years and gave up: virtually no such animal any more, or rather, insider connections needed, there were so many locals in need of that. I have to think rental rates closely correlate to house/condo prices, however, both short term rental and long.

Historically, there at Western State in Gunnison, the market was held back (for many decades) by how cold it was/is there - a sinkhole phenomena - similar to Fraser.
Not sure if Crested Butte town is substantially warmer, but I think I've been told it is. (Warmer trends from global warming maybe help a bit now for both.) At any rate, for a long time Crested Butte was the place to go for young folk and alternative lifestyle people, once Aspen went into the stratosphere.

Ah for the days when there were bunches living cheaply in RVs, tepees and such on the outskirts of Aspen, Carbondale and Basalt, and in parts of Roaring Fork Valley down to Glenwood Springs and beyond; for a fleetingly short time, in hindsight.
 
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mikel

mikel

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I’m not sure what the future holds for Loveland demand as all the spare dirt in Georgetown is being turned into density lodging / townhomes, but this at least looks normal. Imagine how bad it sucked last year for the staff, and we are seeing ripples of loss of long term employees everywhere.

And the latest affordable housing breaking news is that 2 of Silverthorne's mobile home parks have been sold. All the residents have been given until June to get out. That includes removing their mobile homes or they will have to pay for them to be demolished. Where are these residents going to go? Summit County will be losing more workers.
 

nay

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Having looked at houses/condos purchase prices for two years in Summit, Dillon Valley was cheapest, then next cheapest parts of Summit Cove and Silverthorne, then semi-upscale Silverthorne, then all of Frisco, and most expensive - Breck, in that order.

I looked for a long term rental also for close to three years and gave up: virtually no such animal any more, or rather, insider connections needed, there were so many locals in need of that. I have to think rental rates closely correlate to house/condo prices, however, both short term rental and long.

Historically, there at Western State in Gunnison, the market was held back (for many decades) by how cold it was/is there - a sinkhole phenomena - similar to Fraser.
Not sure if Crested Butte town is substantially warmer, but I think I've been told it is. (Warmer trends from global warming maybe help a bit now for both.) At any rate, for a long time Crested Butte was the place to go for young folk and alternative lifestyle people, once Aspen went into the stratosphere.

Ah for the days when there were bunches living cheaply in RVs, tepees and such on the outskirts of Aspen, Carbondale and Basalt, and in parts of Roaring Fork Valley down to Glenwood Springs and beyond; for a fleetingly short time, in hindsight.
Gunnison is tremendously cold during inversion periods, also perfect in summer and something of a real town (good and bad). It’s also not really windy so that helps - it’s easy for us to forget that the wind is always afoot here on the lee side. CB is warmer up out of the hole, but what area in CO is “warm” during the dead of winter ski season outside of a warm spell?

The reality, however, is there is zero rental or housing capacity (people are living in RVs because they have to), the city infrastructure can’t handle any real load from upstream without tearing out existing sewer, kids at Western don’t have dorm space after sophmore year, and CB is on the map big time with demand and prices exploding.

Came for the winters/stayed for the summers applies. Will be interesting to see - I can hop the free bus to CB at any one of 19 times a day and that will probably mean Epic passes next year. Really I want to buy a sled, there is so much good backcountry out of CB with a ton of local resources to access it smartly, and my new place has a 20’ heated garage so there’s room :wag:
 
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nay

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And the latest affordable housing breaking news is that 2 of Silverthorne's mobile home parks have been sold. All the residents have been given until June to get out. That includes removing their mobile homes or they will have to pay for them to be demolished. Where are these residents going to go? Summit County will be losing more workers.
When I was at A-Basin for my opening day and buying a brisket lunch, I noted that the tip jar said something to the effect of:

”Tips are shared among employees to support a living wage”.

Wouldn’t it be cool if hourly rates / salaries supported a living wage and customers just paid the price it takes for that to be true?

Do we stop skiing when the people who make skiing possible are able to eat?

(I do leave good tips :mask:)
 
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jmeb

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When I was at A-Basin for my opening day and buying a brisket lunch, I noted that the tip jar said something to the effect of:

”Tips are shared among employees to support a living wage”.

Wouldn’t it be cool if hourly rates / salaries supported a living wage and customers just paid the price it takes for that to be true?

Do we stop skiing when the people who make skiing possible are able to eat?

(I do leave good tips :mask:)

Hey now...that Real Estate Invest group that owns Abasin needs to eat too!
 
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nay

dirt heel pusher
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Hey now...that Real Estate Invest group that owns Abasin needs to eat too!
Would tip them also to cover their losses. As long as all the Ikon people who use all the days also tip.

Instead of RFID u have to put a quarter in the slot and then it lets u through.

My favorite part about A-Basin RFID is that you have to get aggressively romantic with it before it works. Really, it should give u a quarter each time. Which u could then use to tip the employees.
 

Doug Briggs

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An abbreviated day due to a phone call while booting up and another after two runs. Both required extended time to resolve. Still, a morning skiing beats a day answering the same questions in the office.

IMG_20211103_104658123_crop.jpg The rime was building up as we were in the clouds off and on.

strava4800971424809698706.jpg
 

ski otter 2

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First time at Loveland this season today. 3" fresh had been groomed in on maybe half to 2/3rds of the run, but only a few burrs on my edges (a few bush branches but no visible rocks) by the time I left. Short lines. Slopes a bit more demanding than the much longer Keystone run; and a bit more crowded skiing, probably, after the first half hour or so. Great change of pace. Well worth going.
 

ski otter 2

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Gunnison is tremendously cold during inversion periods, also perfect in summer and something of a real town (good and bad). It’s also not really windy so that helps - it’s easy for us to forget that the wind is always afoot here on the lee side. CB is warmer up out of the hole, but what area in CO is “warm” during the dead of winter ski season outside of a warm spell?

The reality, however, is there is zero rental or housing capacity (people are living in RVs because they have to), the city infrastructure can’t handle any real load from upstream without tearing out existing sewer, kids at Western don’t have dorm space after sophmore year, and CB is on the map big time with demand and prices exploding.

Came for the winters/stayed for the summers applies. Will be interesting to see - I can hop the free bus to CB at any one of 19 times a day and that will probably mean Epic passes next year. Really I want to buy a sled, there is so much good backcountry out of CB with a ton of local resources to access it smartly, and my new place has a 20’ heated garage so there’s room :wag:
Yeah, the people I knew in Crested Butte were pretty much forced out some years ago (wage-to-rent ratio, among other things; that and the high "yuppie" quotient, as they told me).

At any rate, the good ol' high performance snow mobile is the object of choice for most of the backcountry folk (e.g. Alaska backcountry) - especially the b.c. specialty people, at least ones I've interacted with or known. For them it's liberating, almost like having your own personal lift. Especially if you travel in families or small herds/packs.
 
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Kite Pilot

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Gunnison is tremendously cold during inversion periods, also perfect in summer and something of a real town (good and bad). It’s also not really windy so that helps - it’s easy for us to forget that the wind is always afoot here on the lee side. CB is warmer up out of the hole, but what area in CO is “warm” during the dead of winter ski season outside of a warm spell?

The reality, however, is there is zero rental or housing capacity (people are living in RVs because they have to), the city infrastructure can’t handle any real load from upstream without tearing out existing sewer, kids at Western don’t have dorm space after sophmore year, and CB is on the map big time with demand and prices exploding.

Came for the winters/stayed for the summers applies. Will be interesting to see - I can hop the free bus to CB at any one of 19 times a day and that will probably mean Epic passes next year. Really I want to buy a sled, there is so much good backcountry out of CB with a ton of local resources to access it smartly, and my new place has a 20’ heated garage so there’s room :wag:
@nay Good for you getting a house in Gunnison and having your sons(?) go to Western. As a '69 alumini I can attest to the amazing cold and the much warmer conditions in Crested Butte. You may be already aware of this, but the Crested Butte Heritage Museum is having another history series by Dr. Duanne Vandenbusche every Thursday evening at 7pm. I believe tonight's is about the history of skiing, You have to sign up in advance at the CB museum and it may be too late for tonight's, but they are recorded and on You Tube later. I had some classes by Vandenbusche and it's amazing he's still going, great guy. Western has a great alumni program with fun reunions and ski weekends.

 

noobski

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Your primary housing competition in places l like this is AirBnb and VRBO. Someone trying to compete with rental markets will quickly find it unaffordable unless they're also willing to rent, which they can't because they live there. It sucks. Besides a recession, and then the assumption one could still act in a recession to buy, the only way this returns to moderate affordability is if municipalities put rental restrictions in place such as now STRentals. This just happened in SW Florida on one of the main barrier islands. I think Sanibel. Condos still allowed to do STRs, but SF homes, not allowed, Hurt valuations immediately, however it also allowed a tad more affordability for those wanting to actually live there.

Unfortunately VRBO AirBnb, as nice as they are to have access to, have really messed up housing valuations in many places.
 

Bozzenhagen

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Would tip them also to cover their losses. As long as all the Ikon people who use all the days also tip.

Instead of RFID u have to put a quarter in the slot and then it lets u through.

My favorite part about A-Basin RFID is that you have to get aggressively romantic with it before it works. Really, it should give u a quarter each time. Which u could then use to tip the employees.
I talk to the scanner like it's a dog. When it finally scans I say, "GOOD BOY!"; and give it a few ruff pets.
 
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nay

dirt heel pusher
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Your primary housing competition in places l like this is AirBnb and VRBO. Someone trying to compete with rental markets will quickly find it unaffordable unless they're also willing to rent, which they can't because they live there. It sucks. Besides a recession, and then the assumption one could still act in a recession to buy, the only way this returns to moderate affordability is if municipalities put rental restrictions in place such as now STRentals. This just happened in SW Florida on one of the main barrier islands. I think Sanibel. Condos still allowed to do STRs, but SF homes, not allowed, Hurt valuations immediately, however it also allowed a tad more affordability for those wanting to actually live there.

Unfortunately VRBO AirBnb, as nice as they are to have access to, have really messed up housing valuations in many places.

The place we just bought does not allow short term rentals and is HOA controlled - this is a good thing for living in/using as families/professionals occupy most of the units vs even annual college renters.

But this is a bit of a unicorn having a CB custom home builder do a small development in Gunnison that was never listed / advertised. You kinda had to be there to know about it. Feeling lucky is an understatement - it’s just nearly impossible for that town to grow and CB itself is so out of reach.
 

ski otter 2

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Skied Keystone Saturday. (What possessed me?) Kinda crowded after a run or two. Did five maybe. Jeeesh.
But they'd opened a few more runs, one parallel to part of the first one (upper part of Silverspoon? beside Schoolmarm?),
and another (lower part of Silverspoon to Dercum's Dash to River Run and Gondola), going from near the Montezuma lift back to the base area (from which I departed, with some relief).
They may close back down to less during the week, but otherwise, Keystone is/was open top to bottom now.
The snow was still good though. No rocks except in a few small, obvious places.
 

luliski

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Read my resort guide. Link on page 1.

i would call the resort and see what they have. Often you can get a single night room very inexpensively if they just need to fill out a week. There are several hotel options all have shuttles. Rabbit ears down town is a fantastic option as is Nordic lodge.
Thanks! I did look at your guide, and will look again. I’m just overwhelmed as I’m used to skiing closer to home, which is usually simple.
 
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