2021 Faction Candide 3.0, 2.0 and 1.0 Reviews

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GregK

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Is this marked on the ski or do we need to specify when mounting?
On the Candide skis, just the “Candide mount point” is marked, so you have to measure back 1.5cm from that line.
I always get a piece of masking tape and measure my desired length back from the top of that piece of tape(bottom of going forward on the mount) and create a straight line a few cm long. Then put an easy to read “boot center” with an arrow to my created line. Then just put the top edge of the tape across the peak of the Factory marking triangle.
No confusion from the tech that way!

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ski otter 2

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Maybe I forgot what I did with the Black Ops 118. I will have to check. I tested it at many mount points. I always put Schizos on fat skis, and move them around to find points I like best, and for what. Often there are more than one great mount point, with different strengths to each. But for the 118 Black Ops, it was too short, for me, to have that kind of versatility, as I recall. Maybe I didn't go back far enough. It seemed better for a smaller/shorter guy, at least at the points I skied at. In that way more like the 179 Pettitor than the 189 - in between but more in common with the 179, in terms of versatility of mount point.

Oh, almost forgot: one thing about these skis (the K2s and the Rossi Black Ops 118 and Sender Squad both), is the thing mentioned by the Rossi Hard Good Manager, in his recent interview with Blistergear's Jonathan (and posted there). If you move the Sender Squad 112 (and the Pettitor 189) mount point forward two or three cm., or more (~3 to 4 with the 189), the things become "more turny," to repeat the word the Rossi head used - in a very fun way. A surprising way. Sean Pettit style turns.

I'm not sure, but I seem to recall that moving the mount back on the original Black Ops 118, which is the one I have also, that turny ability gets lost in the mix, goes away. In powder it's more than noticeable: it changes the dynamics of the ski drastically, losing that Sean Pettit turn ability. So at the point I experienced the loss of that, in a bad way, back to a more rigid, traditional kind of turn, that would have been the point I stopped moving it back, and instead started hunting for the farthest back point that still retained that turn. (And I was not entirely successful, with the Black Ops 118. Wish it were 3-4 cm longer, at least.)

To me it says a lot and in my experience is well deserved, when the top hard goods guy at Rossi (in charge of all ski development) specifically mentioned that special "turny" ability/change when that Black Ops Sender Squad 112 mount point was moved forward, as the reason he loved the Sender Squad and recommended it so highly to Blistergear and others. I don't want to lose that ability with the Black Ops 118, but almost do because it's a touch too short - and I was thus limited with how far back I could go to retain the Sean Pettit turn I bought it for.

(Note: a much shorter, lighter guy would not lose that turn, or not as easily, on a shorter ski, just with the dynamics of those type of skis. Hence, Sean Pettit, who may be as short as 5' 4", as I recall, can ski the shorter 179 version retaining that "turny" Pettit turn of his, while not facing fore-aft stability problems with that shorter ski. Similarly, a short guy than I might be able to ski the Black Ops 118 mounted a bit farther forward or about the same amount back as I, and still retain enough fore-aft stability. Not sure how much shorter/smaller.)
(Note 2: conversely, a much taller/heavier guy might be able to move the mount much farther back on the Black Ops 118 and still retain both the Sean Pettit "turny" thing, or instead and more likely, a better but more ordinary traditional kind of turn to the ski, not sure - without ever experiencing what I'd call the Sean Pettit "turny thing." But appropriate fore-aft stability then, would probably be gained, for that larger guy - or anybody moving the mount point back much more than a cm or two. Not sure, since I ain't that heavier, larger guy.)

If you guys know what I'm talking about here, with the Rossi manager's "turny thing," especially on the Black OPS 118 mount point for larger guys, please clarify this a bit for me, if possible.


* * * * *

On the Dynastar M Free 108, I found it did not compare well, for me, back to back with the wider Dynastar M Proto or Factory 118, which skied similarly but better, stronger, in various depths of powder, for me - including carving. Don't know if you guys tried that wider version. But that ski too, while good, I won't be getting: it had an odd feel and vibration, as if maybe of a lighter ski, even though it is not so light; just a weird vibration to it, for me, as if not damp enough. But it sure could track on edge, turn on a dime. Drift playfully and float too. In a stronger way than the 108 with both those strengths. I could be happy skiing with that 118.

The older 3.0 Faction had a unique carve/turn to it: it carved, pivoted or turned around it's own radius, as mounted for a demo (probably at the C.T. mount point). That felt great to me, and made it a cheater soft bump ski, good in any powder for that. Moved a whole lot back, I can see it being more stable and better carving, maybe - especially the stouter '21 version; but it might lose that unique radius turn, that I found out much later was the thing that had C.T. choosing that point. Makes sense, since for him that would be good for more than bump & tree skiing: it would be good for switch, tricks and airs also. Sadly, not my thing.
 
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ski otter 2

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P.S. I checked my final and current Black Ops 118 mount point (-0.5 cm.), and then remembered better the details of what I went through to get there - mount point as far back as I could go while still being able to do good Sean Pettit turns in powder or on groomers.

I went as far forward as +2 (too far forward!), and as far back as - 2 and maybe -2.5, not sure. That far back, the "turny" thing was gone - or at least much weaker. What had replaced it was more awkward, and ordinary, at least for my skier profile. But the fore-aft stability was better, more dependable.

At least I had your "New Schooler" mount point of -1.5 more than covered. At that mount point, it does find a balance between ease of regular turning and fore-aft stability. A bit farther back made it harder to turn without improving the fore-aft thing all that much, seemed like.

So I'll have to try it a bit farther back to be more certain, - 2.5 to -3 cm now, at least, to cover the "more traditional" mount point experience also, for myself. Thanks. Maybe it does something different that's good back there. Dunno. (If I'm missing something here, let me know.)

Making Sean Pettit turns is a good part of what this Black Ops 118 ski can (sometimes) do, for me barely, and a good part of why I bought and like it, and will keep it for a time. If I were a bit smaller, I'd probably like this ski even more, as smaller Blistergear folk do - but I instead like the Pettitor 120 much more: it's the right size for me and bigger folk, for a full, unique versatility of mount point, to get that Sean Pettit turn thing in high gear, in surprising, different ways. And in addition, bottom line, how many skis are both tank like in crud at any speed, and yet float in a versatile, playful way in almost any powder, using different styles?

The Black Ops 118 has more float, potentially, than most any 112 ski, more than likely, including the Sender Squad 112 or, perhaps, the '21 Faction 3.0.
But the Faction 3.0 in its stiffer '21 version, may do things neither of these wider skis can do - in soft bumps and trees, for example - as far as I know, but maybe also in other ways. A cutting edge ski I'd love to play with, that seemingly won't be with us much longer.
 
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GregK

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The sidecut Center of the Black Ops 118 and Petitor are a bit closer to center than the Candide 3.0 but all are more symmetrical than most skis. The Candide mount point area would probably be to your liking on the 2021 versions as they are quick easy to pivot on that line. The “new school” just allows you to drive the ski a bit more but it’s still super easy to pivot or start turns.

The Candide 3.0 will definitely not have the float of the BO 118 or Petitor but carving performance would definitely be tops of this group. The BO 118 is no slouch for it’s width as it has little taper like the CT 3.0. Candide is very precise and much lighter on it’s feet as it’s weight is much lighter so no surprise. The Candide uses an elliptical turn radius like many of the Fisher skis now so it’s got a longer turning radius underfoot and shorter tip/tail for easier turn initiation. Seems to work well on the 3.0 as it can make a variety of turn shapes with ease.

Disappointed I didn’t get as many days on them as I got late in the lockdown shortened season. Dying to try out the 1.0 as I know I’ll like them too.
 

ski otter 2

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Thanks for your input on these skis, and many others.

Good to know that probably the C.T. is still really good moved back, and may not lose its great radius/pivot turn there, while gaining more tip drive ability (which I usually like also - at least a bit of that if not more). I'd have to see if that trade-off works for me, and what happens to its radius turns when moved a bit back - or more forward for the 190. Dunno. Fun to see! Either way, sounds like the greater stiffness/stability of the '21 would solve the one problem I had with those skis.

(To complicate things a bit, I've finally gotten the mount, tune, etc. really dialed in on the K2 MB 108/186s I got at the end of last season. Finally!
They are just about as good now as the pair I demoed back then, really swell.

Had a great day on them today in 4" of cream cheese like thick, fresh snow at Winter Park, powder run after run. At that wetness, that much powder can have the resistance - but in a smoother way - of deeper fresh snow - maybe more like 6 or 7 inches; so those skis got to shine.

For me, finally, one more hat in the ring with skis of that general width and purpose.)


Nonetheless, I'm still actively trying to imagine the role for me of those Faction C.T. 3.0 skis, and whether I'd get the 184 or the 190 - when I've only tried an earlier version of the 184. With the 190, I'd surely want to at least start with moving more forward than with the 184s as you suggested (or actually, less far back), which might mess with the C.T. radius turn also, but less, dunno. Fun. I'm guessing that for me, at my size, that 190 might be more of an open space ski than the 184, while the 184 might still be the best soft bump ski I've ever had, as well as having better crud ability. So I'm leaning towards the 184.

It's striking to me that with both the C.T. 3.0 and the Pettitor, three (or four) of the very top, amazing pro skiers carefully designed each to behave in a breakthrough way, with the radius turn in the case of the C.T., and with the Pettit turn ("turny") in the case of the Pettitor (and the Obsethed 116 before that, for Seth Morrison). With Schizo bindings on the C.T. (as with the Pettitor), I could enjoy both that breakthrough radius turn and whatever other great turns that ski might offer at the "right", different mount points.


Of the three I've been on - Black Ops, Pettitor 189 and '20 C.T. 3.0 , the Pettitor by far was the better carver. Not close. Maybe surprising.
And moved a bit back, to, say, between +2 and +3, the Pettitor carves as well as a full on GS ski (except on ice), and charges at speed on edge as well or better than an SG race ski (again, except on ice). Because of its width and design, it is much less prone to crashing by getting an edge or tip hung up in uneven or small crud, so safer at speed, often. That far back, maybe it's something like the current Dynastar M-Pro 105 - maybe; though I have not been on that ski, and the Pettitor, moved more forward, is probably more versatile and playful when wanted - designed for that too: it does a lot of different things - especially when mounted so the Sean Pettit type turns can come out (for me, +3 to +4.5. Probably a touch farther back for a bigger skier.)

The things were designed to compete in extreme and freeride competitions with amazingly fast turns, airs and run outs, as much as the C.T.s, seems like.
 
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GregK

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Good to hear you have the tune figured out with the Mindbender 108ti. Kinda forgot you even had those but remember your issues with the tune vs the ones you demoed. That’s one thing I’ve noticed with my last few skis I’ve bought is the bases have been fairly flat with only the CT 2.0 needing a stone grind before hitting the edges. Edges have all been improved with a hand tune of course.

Agree on the 190cm CT 3.0 more stable in open areas and the 184cm more fun in bumps. Would go closer to Candide line on the 190cm and like the 1.5cm back on the 184cm for mounts.

Never been on the Petitor but it definitely has more taper vs the Candide 3.0. The harder snow bite is very good on the CT and carves well on all snow conditions. Like the mix of solid on groomers and loose/playful enough off piste when wanted.

This thread is making me disappointed I didn’t get enough time on all these Candide skis!
 

ski otter 2

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Sorry to hear that! More days on such skis are good things, wonderful when we get them.

Yeah, mostly, I make a comment here, or on this site; and every other day lately I've been able to get out in powder, on the same Black Ops, Pettitor, Mindbenders 108 and 99, then '20 Bonafide 98 maybe tomorrow, Pinnacle 105 next (and a few weeks back), and then various V-Werks Katanas and V-Werks Mantras after the Pinnacle, in weeks ahead. Hopefully. God willing, that will get us into spring skiing at A Basin, in late May into maybe mid-June only this year, dunno. With slalom skis then, and others. (Fourth of July is the usual last day A Basin goal, eventually. ) God willing.
 

ski otter 2

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P.S. On taper, I'm still easily confused, regarding those/these skis; and also how their taper, if much is there, translates to performance.

With the Pettitors, those parallel sides at the ends don't taper in very much, seems like. Not sure.

Again, the Pettitor seems to have unusually long, near parallel but fat tip and tail sections, again, without much taper? And the 3.0 seems to have more of its length involved in its side shape, and with an ever widening "v" shape? and with more elongated elliptical tear drop endings, not as straight, nor with much taper at the ends either. Dunno.

The 3.0 seems to have more full side shape, and more of its side involved in that shape - and probably its turn. Its front side has that longer "v" shape going up towards the tip, and a much shorter "v" going back towards the tail, maybe half as long. Both ends are a more elliptical tear drop shape, more rounded though elongated at both ends. Again, this would seem to involve more of the ski in its turns. (Not sure what kind of rocker is there, or how long or high it gets.)

The Pettitor seems to have side shape only in a middle section, then relatively long, straight fat sections (for stability?) towards both tip and tail (instead of a "v" shape area); then a fairly blunt but abruptly rounded end at both tip and tail. I know probably one key to this ski, is that the Pettitor has fairly short soft but rockered sections at both ends, but is then stiff as a board for an unusually long span in the midsection of each ski, starting in that same long rockered section but extending all the way to a similarly short soft section at the end of the rocker tail. If you put these Pettitor skis on a three or four foot (or so) span between two counters, you can stand on them over the binding area without them appreciably bending. Stiff as a board in the middle, like I said. Not common.
 

anders_nor

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the mount points on the ct 3.0's are pretty darn agressive

they dont seem to ski small

but.. just grab a pair, they are dirt cheap on sale now, they are not makeing them again, they are good.
 
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