The Never-Ending Faction Discussion

[ski otter 2]

Holy cr@p.

This deserves to be broken out into its own thread. "Front Range Budget Reliable Grind Options" or something. Not kidding.

In typical SkiTalk fashion, I'm sure you'll get off-axis pushback trying to get you to spend more or "understand" about wait times. But if what you say is the case (and I do not dispute you), then *not* having a thread on this on SkiTalk would be a bit of a forum failure.

For my own part, I obviously have 'shop test' rock skis that I don't give a toss about being taken out of the rotation.

@dbostedo ?

No, thanks but please don't. I have done this before here, and the results were not good.

Insanity is doing the same failed thing over and over: in this case, posting about it further.

It was just so striking, the night and day difference between what Greg goes through, and the way he is repeatedly insisting other folks get yet another base flattening, to solve a ski's problems, that had me post: a different point of view/experience. Not an attempt to change what goes on.

And I would not have posted my own experience in this area if I were alone in my tuning experience here.

 

[GregK]

@ski otter 2 Hope you at least have a mechanic and doctor you trust in your area to get things done properly!
Sucks not having “a guy” when you need something done properly.

 

[ski otter 2]

Thanks, Greg. Funny, great; and funny you should mention that in the way you just did!

When I finally moved to Summit County to be near the ski areas instead of commuting, I did find a mechanic I could trust. Three blocks up the street.

And just a few years ago, I did find a doctor who is bombproof good, amazing (down in Denver, but with an apothecary in Avon/Vail, of all places): only she's a trained and licensed Oriental Herbs/medicine doc, and that training goes with training & license (in the classic Chinese schools/teachers) in acupuncture also. I had learned up to then to treat myself, cure myself, of all manner of things, through all manner of methods slowly acquired. Sort of like my ski tuning. But she is leaps ahead, in every area of ability/practise. I know just enough to appreciate and trust what she does. Just being around her renews my faith in human beings and the human condition, enriches my life. But then skiing seems to do that too.

 

[GregK]

Just being around her renews my faith in human beings and the human condition, enriches my life

You just need to find someone who can the same thing for your skis with a Wintersteiger stone grinder and you’re set!

 

[Tony S]

For me, 1.5 hours to the nearest competent tuner, despite probably a half dozen closer shops in the greater Portland area. I see this as kind of standard. Not as scarce as boot fitters, but close.

 

[cantunamunch]

For me, 1.5 hours to the nearest competent tuner, despite probably a half dozen closer shops in the greater Portland area. I see this as kind of standard. Not as scarce as boot fitters, but close.

I know several people whose pre- and post- analysis skills are thoroughly reliable and far better than mine. They're also in relatively small shops that don't have uber-machinery.

 

[anders_nor]

the only thing you need is someone who can make the ski flat for you, everything else is easy(ish)

 

[James]

the only thing you need is someone who can make the ski flat for you, everything else is easy(ish)

Amazing how difficult that proves to be.

Apparently, the $400k machine a monkey can use didn’t account for monkeys smoking weed. Or the equivalent there of. The newer $700k machine promises to counteract that, but no one believes it. They just use stronger weed. So it’s an arms race.

 

[GregK]

The most important piece to the puzzle is having knowledgeable, experienced tech(s) with the ability to diagnose issues and the properly solve them on well maintained machines.
The automated machines make things easier to get fast, consistent results with any tech but sometimes skis that are “worse than average” might get fully corrected. Experienced tech would still come into play for proper diagnosis before/after going through the machine.

Still lots of places out there letting kids free hand on belt sanders, using machines not properly maintained or old techs using outdated techniques and refusing to learn new ones. So it could be(often was) a lot worse before those auto machines.

Would take an experienced tech on a semi auto stone grinder with hand tune over anything but they are sometimes harder to find.

 

[ski otter 2]

What James said.
Things change year to year, so maybe my knowledge of the situation here is now dated, don't know. But last I knew, the national brand reps coming here often won't use shops with Wintersteigers, for consistent reasons that have to do with both the limits of the trained operators and limits of those machines.

Montana machines they will go to, and build in the extra cost to hire a full time expert finish tuner rep associate each year to clean up after even those machines, by hand. The best strategy is apparently the $1,600+ to $3,000 hand held base flattening machines the race techs use, plus maybe thirty hours fine tuning on each pair of top racer skis, I've been shown and told. It's not a simple, easy situation. Except maybe for Greg.

 

[GregK]

@ktish Just sent me the link to the 21 CT 1.0 stock finally showing up on The-House.com website. The bad news is that’s it’s full retail on a ski from 2 seasons ago. $600 list price that Skis.com was selling for $429 last year and $339.99 during Black Friday last Fall.

You do get 15% off your first purchase if you subscribe to the The-House mailers but I’d still be wanted lower prices that full pop on a 21 ski. Here’s the link and if interested in this ski, maybe see what they could do on pricing.

Faction Candide 1.0 Skis

www.the-house.com

 

[zag]

Wow, 700+ posts on my favorite brand of skis. Almost time for a sub forum for us fan boys.

I work in a eastern shop that doesn't sell faction, despite this, whole season I spent every ski day on one of my three pairs. Just retired my early CT2.0s after killing their camber entirely so I'm on my two Prodigy 1.0s and just added the Agent 3s.

Really debating on Dictator 1.0 vs a badly (needed) performance/race/skinnier front side carver for the next purchase.

 

[my07mcx2]

Wow, 700+ posts on my favorite brand of skis. Almost time for a sub forum for us fan boys.

I work in a eastern shop that doesn't sell faction, despite this, whole season I spent every ski day on one of my three pairs. Just retired my early CT2.0s after killing their camber entirely so I'm on my two Prodigy 1.0s and just added the Agent 3s.

Really debating on Dictator 1.0 vs a badly (needed) performance/race/skinnier front side carver for the next purchase.

Question, could you use the Agent 2 for resort on and off piste or is it strictly a touring ski?

 

[GregK]

Question, could you use the Agent 2 for resort on and off piste or is it strictly a touring ski?

Definitely could use it with a traditional binding and use it strictly in the resort. Very similar flex pattern to the Dictator line(hair softer underfoot with lower torsional rigidity) and lower weight. Won’t be super damp or great in crud but fun and easy to ski.

Have a friend’s wife in Whistler who skis the Agent 3.0 as her powder ski and loves it. She’s smaller, not too aggressive and went a size up from her narrower groomer skis.

 

[GregK]

Just retired my early CT2.0s after killing their camber entirely so I'm on my two Prodigy 1.0s and just added the Agent 3s.

Really debating on Dictator 1.0 vs a badly (needed) performance/race/skinnier front side carver for the next purchase.

What years are the 2 pairs of Prodigy 1.0?

Find the Dictator 1.0 a pretty light ski now and would much rather have a 21 CT 1.0 instead. More stable, damp with better edge grip vs the Dictator 1.0 and more similar to a performance GS/all mountain carver.

 

[zag]

Question, could you use the Agent 2 for resort on and off piste or is it strictly a touring ski?

Yes Agent 2/3 can be decent for all mountain in softer locations. I have the 21/22 Agent 3 mounted with shifts for touring/freeride and used it 20 days straight in Utah as my "out west" ski. Conditions ranged from "frozen & terrible -consider downloading" off 9990 @PC (as the ski patrol sign said) to daily spring slush. Worked very good in all but the halfpipe but that's to be expected.

What years are the 2 pairs of Prodigy 1.0?

Find the Dictator 1.0 a pretty light ski now and would much rather have a 21 CT 1.0 instead. More stable, damp with better edge grip vs the Dictator 1.0 and more similar to a performance GS/all mountain carver.

20/21 1.0s in 187, daily drivers.
21/22 1.0 in 184 but I have a heavier warden demo binding for boot switch needs.

Like the longer ones more as I'm tall, second pair is set for my newer gw boots, not yet broken in.

 

[GregK]

They have a saleonsale promo code right now for 10% off everything at The-House and tried it and it worked on the Faction CT 1.0. If you subscribe to their mailing list, they sent you a code for 15% your first purchase. Combined you be around $450 for them which is more in line to where they should be.

 

[SpeedyKevin]

So my wife and I have been loving our Dictator 2.0 and 3.0s but are now curious about the CT. I understand that they changed / made lighter the latest year but my wife is still interested in the 3.0 for a powder chargey ski. She's also looking at the Moment Bella/WC108 but based on GregK's reviews, it seems that the CT 3.0x is the more stable and damp ski. We are also unsure about the weight of the Bella/WC108 as it seems light.

Do you folks think the 172 3.0x would work for her in powder/charging? She is 5'1" 110lbs and currently uses the 164 Dictator 3.0x.

(to provide additional context, she wants a chargey damp ski after hearing me rave about my Black Ops 118s)

 

[GregK]

So my wife and I have been loving our Dictator 2.0 and 3.0s but are now curious about the CT. I understand that they changed / made lighter the latest year but my wife is still interested in the 3.0 for a powder chargey ski. She's also looking at the Moment Bella/WC108 but based on GregK's reviews, it seems that the CT 3.0x is the more stable and damp ski. We are also unsure about the weight of the Bella/WC108 as it seems light.

Do you folks think the 172 3.0x would work for her in powder/charging? She is 5'1" 110lbs and currently uses the 164 Dictator 3.0x.

(to provide additional context, she wants a chargey damp ski after hearing me rave about my Black Ops 118s)

The 172cm size on the CT 3.0x is only available on the 22 versions, so you should be looking at the 21 169cm CT 3.0x instead. Same specs and shape but more damp because of its extra 200gr(2000gr vs 1800gr).

There is a place in SLC that is currently advertising the 21 169cm and 178cm CT 3.0x for $599.99 on EBay but I think they should be around $100 plus less than that for a 2 year old model. I’d call them directly and see what they can do!

Where does she have the Dictator skis mounted? Their factory mount is -3cm from the Candide/New School mount. I’d probably go around -2cm on the CT 3.0x for her size and a light but not super light binding on it. Attack 13 or Griffon vs the lighter Attack 11 or Squire so it damp but not too heavy. She’ll love them!

 

[SpeedyKevin]

The 172cm size on the CT 3.0x is only available on the 22 versions, so you should be looking at the 21 169cm CT 3.0x instead. Same specs and shape but more damp because of its extra 200gr(2000gr vs 1800gr).

There is a place in SLC that is currently advertising the 21 169cm and 178cm CT 3.0x for $599.99 on EBay but I think they should be around $100 plus less than that for a 2 year old model. I’d call them directly and see what they can do!

View attachment 167196
Where does she have the Dictator skis mounted? Their factory mount is -3cm from the Candide/New School mount. I’d probably go around -2cm on the CT 3.0x for her size and a light but not super light binding on it. Attack 13 or Griffon vs the lighter Attack 11 or Squire so it damp but not too heavy. She’ll love them!

Good stuff, thanks!

On her dictator, she is running at +1.5 / progressive point. Will definitely look into the Attack 13. I have them on my pow skis and like em but shes a big pivot 12 fan so Ill see what she thinks!