Neither, I would have to choose a different binding. The 75mm is just too narrow and the 95 will have too much overhang. and especially on a narrower ski that will get high edge angles, you will get drag.Thanks Phil One question if you wanted to put pivots on a Stoockli AR, 83mm waist, would you go 75mm or 95mm brake width?
Perhaps not reliable information, just from my own experimentation: The 12/14 toes will release vertically, but it takes a lot of force to do so. I've turned my Pivot 12s down to 4 DIN; I can lift the toe out vertically, but it takes much more effort than a toe side release or a heel vertical release.Does anybody have reliable information regarding the vertical release capability of the toe pieces of the NX 12, SPX 12, Pivot 12/14 and all metal Pivot 15 and 18? I have been led to believe that all NX, SPX and Pivot up to and including 14 support vertical release but the 15 and 18 don't due to their metal construction.
Thanks for showing us this disassembly and saving me the trouble of ever thinking to try it. As a chemist, I'm technically inclined to think about such things, but not comfortable to do so like my engineering friends.Perhaps not reliable information, just from my own experimentation: The 12/14 toes will release vertically, but it takes a lot of force to do so. I've turned my Pivot 12s down to 4 DIN; I can lift the toe out vertically, but it takes much more effort than a toe side release or a heel vertical release.
I just got a pair of Pivot 15s today, so naturally the first thing I did was take them apart:
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Notice that the primary bolt rides on a ball-and-socket. This implies that Look designed it to move about more than one axis. You can also see that they rounded off the top edge of the support to make it easier for the bolt to rotate forward:
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The bolt on a normal side release:
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The bolt on a vertical release(?):
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And a side view with the metal housing. There is not much rotation:
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I'll have to wait until I mount these to try a vertical release test, but I suspect like the 12, it will take a lot of effort to punch out vertically.
Here's the 12/14 toes:Thanks for showing us this disassembly and saving me the trouble of ever thinking to try it. As a chemist, I'm technically inclined to think about such things, but not comfortable to do so like my engineering friends.
I have loosened the springs on my old 12 and Dual 14 like yours shown to see how much those toe wings move. Just didn't take that last few turns to disassembly...Here's the 12/14 toes:
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Detail of the wings assembly:
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A look at the support cavity with the matting surface for the wings. It allows the wings to pivot side to side and up:
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I'm not qualified to render an opinion, but I like the mechanics of the 12/14s better than the 15/18s. The 12/14s have split wings with rollers where the 15/18s do not. Whether this improves release quality or elasticity, I do not know. But I admit the 12/14s lack something in aesthetics compared to the 15/18s, and it's not just metal vs plastic.
It is a little sobering to see the mechanics by which our joints, bones, and ligaments are protected, but still reassuring that they're Pivots. I also understand better why the shop has to check the DIN settings. Those indicators look a little janky.Anyone want to dissect a Pivot heel?
A Pivot 12 w/ 75 mm bakes mounted to a R21 plate on a Dynastar Team Speed SL.
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The Pivot holes drilled into space on the R21 so I had to backfill with epoxy. No pull-outs as of yet!
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The plastic housing is only for looking cool, DIN indication, and getting stabbed with your pole. It's held in place by plastic clips and a pin seen below and right of the indicator window.
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Just drill it out. When the bit grabs, you can pull the pin out roughly intact. No need to drill all the way through.
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All the easily accessible parts.
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Note the camshaft in the open and closed position.
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Reinserting the spring guide pin. The flat top mattes with the camshaft.
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The difference between open and closed is only about 1/4 inch of spring travel.
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The spring back in.
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Clipping the DIN indicator back on the tensioning screw.
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The indicator and tensioning screw back in the plastic housing.
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Screw in a bit then push the housing down. The plastic clips will snap into place.
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Pin reinserted. Warranty Void!
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So you have the tech manual and have reviewed the installation instructions?So it's my first time installing Pivot 15s and I've hit a couple discrepancies compared with the 12 toe pieces. The first is the 15 toes appear to shift the boot back about 4mm compared with the 12s -- with the same mounting holes on a 2x4 it took 6 clicks on the rear bindings (3 turns) to get the same forward pressure:
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Is this discrepancy expected? I can't imagine Look changed the mounting dimensions from 2020 to 2021.
The next problem is the 15s leave my boots floating in free space. The gap is about 1mm. I tightened and loosened the forward pressure, but the gap is still there. What am I missing? There's not much left to adjust.
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Where as the 12s are nice and snug.
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And @dx111, regarding vertical release on the 15s: No, I can't see it happening. I took a crowbar to the boot and could barely get it to lift. The screws will strip out before this binding lets go.
Also, the 12s have a greater elasticity than the 15s. I measure 47mm vs 41mm:
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All of this makes me question which is really the better binding.
Pivots on plates? That's cool.
Nope.Are there any differences between the Look Pivot 12 GW Pro (https://www.evo.com/alpine-ski-bind...5/look-pivot-12-gw-pro-ski-bindings-2021-.jpg) and the regular Look Pivot 12 GW other than color?