2021 or 2022 Toyota Sienna AWD as road trip vehicle

[Shawn]

we are most likely retiring in Portugal

Now that's interesting. I have so many questions...

 

[Wendy]

A little personal, but Portugal seems like a fairly big change from the Duluth plans?

But don't despair, there are several really cool, slightly smaller/narrower Euro minivans available -- and some with stick shifts!!!!

Revival of this thread makes me sad/furious that Toyota ditched the removable second row seat option on this new version. We love our 2011, but the miles are piling up!

Um yeah. Certainly!

And there are indeed some cool small Euro vans out there.

 

[pete]

A little personal, but Portugal seems like a fairly big change from the Duluth plans?

But don't despair, there are several really cool, slightly smaller/narrower Euro minivans available -- and some with stick shifts!!!!

Revival of this thread makes me sad/furious that Toyota ditched the removable second row seat option on this new version. We love our 2011, but the miles are piling up!

4th-gen (2021-) Sienna: Removing 2nd-Row Seats

This article is a collection of information and resources for removing the second-row (middle row) seats on the 4th-generation Toyota Sienna (2021-). The Situation 2nd-row seats of the previous Sie…

bradshacks.com

but not advising to : )

or pick up a lightly used pre 2022

 

[tball]

As an owner of a larger SUV, a Yukon XL, we actually use the space and capacity but as a step down, I do agree that the Sienna is a much better option that most of the medium and large-medium options out there.

As a Sequoia owner, another reason to own a truck-based, box-on-frame SUV is the payload capacity. I could fit everything in a Sienna for a week-long ski trip for our family of four but I'd be way overweight, and the poor little four-banger would not be happy living a life constantly hauling our butts up and over the continental divide. That and having a 4x4 for off-road summer adventures.

 

[dan ross]

Now that's interesting. I have so many questions..

Yes, inquiring minds (as well as those who are Oxford comma curious) want to know

 

[pete]

As a Sequoia owner, another reason to own a truck-based, box-on-frame SUV is the payload capacity. I could fit everything in a Sienna for a week-long ski trip for our family of four but I'd be way overweight, and the poor little four-banger would not be happy living a life constantly hauling our butts up and over the continental divide. That and having a 4x4 for off-road summer adventures.

funny thing is, both are rated at similar payloads, though I will concede that the Sierra's ~250hp and 175lbft torque is dwarfed by the 400+ hp and 583lbft of the Sequoia.

 

[jmeb]

Payload is fine -- minivans are built with the expectation of a large family and gear. If you're towing >2000# regularly, sure buy a V8. With the middle seats removed a Gen 3 Sienna has more cargo room than a Yukon XL (150ft vs 144ft.)

As someone who has drives a Sienna over Loveland/Berthoud multiple times a week with plenty in it....you don't need more power for any reason except you like more power. It keeps speed fine and that's lifted with a roofbox and AT tires.

 

[pete]

Payload is fine -- minivans are built with the expectation of a large family and gear. If you're towing >2000# regularly, sure buy a V8. With the middle seats removed a Gen 3 Sienna has more cargo room than a Yukon XL (150ft vs 144ft.)

As someone who has drives a Sienna over Loveland/Berthoud multiple times a week with plenty in it....you don't need more power for any reason except you like more power. It keeps speed fine and that's lifted with a roofbox and AT tires.

no arguing, I just pulled the numbers for the 2023 vehicles. I noted that all Siennas now are Hybrid. I didn't know that and wouldn't mind given Toyota's experience with Hybrids.

 

[dan ross]

I like to think that I'm a cool van-driving woman!

(And my box is pretty aerodynamic)!

My Subaru-driving ski friends, when they saw me drive up in the Sienna, were like, "A VAN?" and I said, "Yep!"

My Sienna is fun to drive!

I'm past caring what people think of me!

Yes, I was so surprised by the comfort, utility, handling,and gas mileage, of “the box” I rented . Some may be laughing on the outside, but I was smiling on the inside. They aren’t your mothers minim-vans anymore.

 

[Ken_R]

As a Sequoia owner, another reason to own a truck-based, box-on-frame SUV is the payload capacity. I could fit everything in a Sienna for a week-long ski trip for our family of four but I'd be way overweight, and the poor little four-banger would not be happy living a life constantly hauling our butts up and over the continental divide. That and having a 4x4 for off-road summer adventures.

The new Sequoias are amazing. Really curious about the hybrid version, but since I keep my vehicles a long time I think I would opt for the non-hybrid version. Batteries go bad, not if but when. That said Toyota has an amazing warranty 10 years / 150k miles for the batteries in all their Hybrid and EV models. So, the only reason to go with a non-hybrid Toyota might be the reduced weight of the vehicle, maybe increased storage space and maybe higher payload?.

 

[Tom K.]

With the middle seats removed a Gen 3 Sienna has more cargo room than a Yukon XL (150ft vs 144ft.)

And luggage compartment headspace (we transport a lot of bikes).

I wish I could buy a minivan-type vehicle with a V8 or Ecoboost V6.

There would be one in my garage tomorrow.

 

[Wendy]

Yes, inquiring minds (as well as those who are Oxford comma curious) want to know

I'll divulge more in a few days. ;-).

 

[pete]

The new Sequoias are amazing. Really curious about the hybrid version, but since I keep my vehicles a long time I think I would opt for the non-hybrid version. Batteries go bad, not if but when. That said Toyota has an amazing warranty 10 years / 150k miles for the batteries in all their Hybrid and EV models. So, the only reason to go with a non-hybrid Toyota might be the reduced weight of the vehicle, maybe increased storage space and maybe higher payload?.

surprisingly batteries are pretty robust given how they age. Toyota I think I read kept them charged to a certain degree (%) as it extended their life and could do so given it's use in a Hybrid. Full electric are a bit different and Tesla's batteries have shown to lose 5-10% for up around 150K to 200K miles and others vary where say Nissan is said to be on the lower end.

that said, if going Hybrid it's be good to know upfront the current cost of replacement. The Prius I heard run $2K-$3K and getting 200K miles out of them is pretty common.

 

[Wendy]

surprisingly batteries are pretty robust given how they age. Toyota I think I read kept them charged to a certain degree (%) as it extended their life and could do so given it's use in a Hybrid. Full electric are a bit different and Tesla's batteries have shown to lose 5-10% for up around 150K to 200K miles and others vary where say Nissan is said to be on the lower end.

that said, if going Hybrid it's be good to know upfront the current cost of replacement. The Prius I heard run $2K-$3K and getting 200K miles out of them is pretty common.

A possibility for a European car for us is the plug-in Prius.
We will have a charger.

 

[James]

I like to think that I'm a cool van-driving woman!

(And my box is pretty aerodynamic)!

My Subaru-driving ski friends, when they saw me drive up in the Sienna, were like, "A VAN?" and I said, "Yep!"

My Sienna is fun to drive!

I'm past caring what people think of me!

My sister has an Ascent. Her touring version is about the same price as what I paid for my Sienna. Anyways, the Ascent is nice, for sure, but I agree, it doesn't have the same amount of space. I do like how my Sienna drives much better than my sister's Ascent (I've been a Subaru gal for years, so I'm not biased towards Toyota).

Also, the ease of loading/unloading the Sienna is wonderful. Honestly, sliding rear doors make so much more sense, especially in tight spaces. Our 2 dogs use the 2nd row seats, and they are harnessed in with doggie seat belts. It works really well and I can get in there and attend to them if I need to much more easily.

Honestly, the Sienna is likely a better driver. I only drove one maybe four years ago for a day rental. Drives like a car.
The Ascent I’ve driven quite a bit. It’s a boat. You could probably tighten it up, but it’s a real floater.

But what about the Sienna ground clearance? Been awhile since I’ve seen a Sienna. The Honda Odyssey I’ve seen recently is like a low rider.

 

[jmeb]

But what about the Sienna ground clearance? Been awhile since I’ve seen a Sienna. The Honda Odyssey I’ve seen recently is like a low rider.

Siennas are typically undersprung in the rear stock -- a plush ride but sags with a bunch of weight.

The most recent gen Hybrid Sienna can easily be lifted to 9" clearance since the rear wheels are not connected w/ a driveshaft up front. (Hybrid motor powers the rear wheels).

 

[Wendy]

Honestly, the Sienna is likely a better driver. I only drove one maybe four years ago for a day rental. Drives like a car.
The Ascent I’ve driven quite a bit. It’s a boat. You could probably tighten it up, but it’s a real floater.

But what about the Sienna ground clearance? Been awhile since I’ve seen a Sienna. The Honda Odyssey I’ve seen recently is like a low rider.

I noticed the exact same thing about the Ascent (a "floater", as you describe it) and I wondered if it was just the lower trim level in the loaner car that I had. It drove me CRAZY; I prefer tight-handling vehicles. It was to the point where it made me slightly carsick.

The Sienna is a much tighter ride. The steering radius is crazy small - feels like a go cart in a way; I am wondering if that's the electric motor powering the rear.

My Sienna has a whopping extra 1/2" of clearance, LOL. It's not as low as the Honda, and honestly was no issue in 10" of snow in northern Minnesota. It gets driven on dirt farm roads quite a bit around here when I drive down to work instead of ride my bike.

My husband uses it for trips to Lowe's - it's great for fitting lumber in the back.

 

[Tom K.]

But what about the Sienna ground clearance? Been awhile since I’ve seen a Sienna. The Honda Odyssey I’ve seen recently is like a low rider.

Our Sienna has a bit more ground clearance than our in-laws Odyssey, but nothing like an Outback.

In the negative column, I've never had a vehicle that is better at packing up the wheel wells with snow. World Cup podium performance. I probably made a mistake taking the factory mud flaps back in 2011.

 

[tball]

funny thing is, both are rated at similar payloads, though I will concede that the Sierra's ~250hp and 175lbft torque is dwarfed by the 400+ hp and 583lbft of the Sequoia.

Payload is fine -- minivans are built with the expectation of a large family and gear. If you're towing >2000# regularly, sure buy a V8. With the middle seats removed a Gen 3 Sienna has more cargo room than a Yukon XL (150ft vs 144ft.)

As someone who has drives a Sienna over Loveland/Berthoud multiple times a week with plenty in it....you don't need more power for any reason except you like more power. It keeps speed fine and that's lifted with a roofbox and AT tires.

For most, I agree that a Sienna is better than a Sequoia, given it drives better and gets WAY better fuel economy. I'd love to have both in my quiver. We wanted to road trip to CA last summer to avoid the airline fiascos, but the cost of gas for the Sequoia was going to be ridiculous. It also would be great to fit bikes easily inside the Sienna with the extra interior height.

And, yes, they have similar payload capacities. I don't think they are truly equivalent, though. Toyota 4x4s have notoriously conservative payload capacities, and I think they are rated to take that payload off-road. The 4x4 suspension is also going to last much longer carrying loads on rough roads.

Not a Sienna, but my wife's old first-gen MDX had the same payload capacity as my second-gen Sequoia. Loaded up with the same bunch of over-packers crap, it was night and day how they drove. The MDX power was fine, but the suspension was never happy, and handling suffered. You don't even notice the same load in the Sequoia or my old first-gen Tundra.

One other thing to look out for with a car-based platform is hanging bikes off the back, as four bikes made the handling just barely tolerable with the MDX and is nothing for the Sequoia.

 

[jmeb]

Yeah, minivans are sprung for the road, not for off-pavement driving. The upside is they handle far better on the pavement under normal conditions than do the few remaining body on frame SUVs. Have to pick and choose -- a rig isn't going to perform as well as it can at both 500# payload and 2000# payload with the same suspension (short of a great deal of electronic controlled dampers and airbags.)

My middle ground is adjustable airbags in the rear of the Sienna to reduce squat when loaded. The front never gets overloaded based on payload distribution.