2021 or 2022 Toyota Sienna AWD as road trip vehicle

[snwbrdr]

Always depends on how you value cargo space. The “almost as much” is in cubic feet with second and third rows folded down: Sienna is 101 cubic feet, the GH is 98 cubic feet, the Sequoia is 87. The second gen sequoia, which is an ultimate gear rig, has 120 cubic feet and that all goes completely flat if you want to sleep in there.

Some initial projection is the Grand hybrid will be rated at 34 combined, meaning about 2 mpg less than the standard Highlander. These 4 cyl turbos will start gulping if you mash them at 95 mph constantly or want to tow with them, but then these are big CUVs and the idea is road trip comfort and capacity.

Anyway, this is a lot of room. It’s 6” longer, 2” wider, and 2” taller than a regular Highlander.

The hybrid max (the powertrain that makes 369 hp & 400 lb-ft) won't be a 30 mpg vehicle It's going to be less than 27 mpg, based on the mpg of the RX500h F-sport performance. You must of missed the part where I said the 2.5L hybrid will be getting 34 mpg (less than the smaller highlander).

The taller body of the Sienna is going to be more friendly to load cargo without breaking your back, due to a lower load height. Not to mention with the 3rd row up,, with that deep well of cargo capacity it has now that the 3rd row isn't in there.

Though Toyota says the 2nd row isn't removable due to the seat mounted airbags, there is a resistor you can plug in to not trigger a fault and does not cost that much. https://bradshacks.com/product/airbag-simulator/ which you then maximize the cargo capacity of the Sienna, an d a flat floor, which the Grand Highlander doesn't have.

 

[Tom K.]

The taller body of the Sienna is going to be more friendly to load cargo without breaking your back, due to a lower load height.

THIS is why we keep (somewhat reluctantly) buying minivans. My back muscles still sort of "have it" but we transport bikes a lot, and it's nice to have them upright on a fork-mount board.

Wintertime, we've got a plywood platform that sits about a foot off the floor. Six pair of alpine and six pair of xc skis easily under the floor, then luggage and dog on the platform. Stress-free road tripping!

Though Toyota says the 2nd row isn't removable due to the seat mounted airbags, there is a resistor you can plug in to not trigger a fault and does not cost that much.

True, though warranty is voided, and aside from plugging in the resistor, the video I watched of the actual process of removing the seats seems to involve more than a fair bit of time and wrenching -- and we pull one of the second row seats in and out regularly. I suspect the future will see a Chrysler minivan in our garage, but for now the old 2011 Sienna seems to be doing well @120k miles.

 

[Wendy]

THIS is why we keep (somewhat reluctantly) buying minivans. My back muscles still sort of "have it" but we transport bikes a lot, and it's nice to have them upright on a fork-mount board.

Wintertime, we've got a plywood platform that sits about a foot off the floor. Six pair of alpine and six pair of xc skis easily under the floor, then luggage and dog on the platform. Stress-free road tripping!



True, though warranty is voided, and aside from plugging in the resistor, the video I watched of the actual process of removing the seats seems to involve more than a fair bit of time and wrenching -- and we pull one of the second row seats in and out regularly. I suspect the future will see a Chrysler minivan in our garage, but for now the old 2011 Sienna seems to be doing well @120k miles.

With the 2nd row captains seats in my Sienna, I've been able to load 6 pairs of alpine skis (in several ski bags for protection) between the 2 seats. There's plenty of length between the back and the 2nd row to fit 180cm skis. I imagine with rigging something else up, I could fit more, but I don't need to.

It's not the same as removing seats, but I've been very surprised at how much stuff fits lengthwise between those seats, leaving tons of room behind the seats for more stuff. This has allowed me to not worry about the non-removable 2nd row, but I can see how somebody used to being able to remove seats wouldn't want to give that up.

 

[Andy Mink]

All seats are removable.

 

[nay]

The hybrid max (the powertrain that makes 369 hp & 400 lb-ft) won't be a 30 mpg vehicle It's going to be less than 27 mpg, based on the mpg of the RX500h F-sport performance. You must of missed the part where I said the 2.5L hybrid will be getting 34 mpg (less than the smaller highlander).

The taller body of the Sienna is going to be more friendly to load cargo without breaking your back, due to a lower load height. Not to mention with the 3rd row up,, with that deep well of cargo capacity it has now that the 3rd row isn't in there.

Though Toyota says the 2nd row isn't removable due to the seat mounted airbags, there is a resistor you can plug in to not trigger a fault and does not cost that much. https://bradshacks.com/product/airbag-simulator/ which you then maximize the cargo capacity of the Sienna, an d a flat floor, which the Grand Highlander doesn't have.

I don’t think most owners are interested in removing their second row seats, especially if loading into a moderate height cargo area is problematic for ones’ back. The point of these vehicles isn’t to use them for 2 people, it’s because you need to carry people and gear. The “Grand” bit is because it actually gives a usable third row when needed like a full-size SUV.

Ostensibly, though, if ”vanlife” is the goal, you need a van. I like minivans, I don’t like the fact that they are almost entirely front wheel drive. I lived with one with studded snow tires for years and it wasn’t even functional for winter performance in my neighborhood.

I’ll go back to the second gen Sequoia for any use I have. The second row seats have a flip down board that completely covers the gap between folded second and third rows so it is a completely flat surface across a long and wide vehicle. And that’s still 120 cubic feet without having to take seats in and out, the conversion takes under a minute.

Not to mention a lot more suspension to hang the good hardware off the back while you carry 6 people, too. Gas really isn’t that expensive. Especially when you paid $21K and this truck will likely go a million miles.

Nonetheless, Toyota is going to sell a lot more Grand Highlanders than it is going to sell Siennas. They assuredly understand this and at some point minivans that don’t sell well will go the same route as sedans.

 

[snwbrdr]

True, though warranty is voided, and aside from plugging in the resistor, the video I watched of the actual process of removing the seats seems to involve more than a fair bit of time and wrenching -- and we pull one of the second row seats in and out regularly. I suspect the future will see a Chrysler minivan in our garage, but for now the old 2011 Sienna seems to be doing well @120k miles.

You're going to have to pick between AWD and PHEV. Can't have both.

And, PHEV's don't have 2nd row Stow-N-Go seats. the Stow-N-Go seats are not the most comfortable out there.

While the PHEV, you can remove the 2nd row seats, it's not easy to get out of the side doors.

https://www.cars.com/articles/what-you-give-up-to-get-a-chrysler-pacifica-hybrid-1420692786721/

The biggest omission to me is the second-row Stow ‘n Go seating, lost because of battery placement under the floor. During my testing of the Pacifica Hybrid, I tried removing the second-row seats and it was an ordeal. The seats are 68 pounds each and don’t fit straight in or out of the sliding doors, so you have to wiggle them to fit them through. Chrysler said that the weight of the seats is middle-of-the-pack for minivans, but the bigger issue was actually how awkward it is to maneuver them.

 

[Tom K.]

You're going to have to pick between AWD and PHEV. Can't have both.

Yup, well aware, and an easy choice for us, living near the Canadian border.

To each their own, but we were going to buy the new Sienna in spite of it having the hybrid powertrain, no because we found it to be an attribute.

Regardless, the non-removable second row seats were a deal killer for us, as family factors are such that one of those seats comes in and out quite frequently.

So I'll sell the trusty AWD Sienna either this spring or next (depending on how the snow tires/wheels look at the end of the ski season) then start casting around for a Pacifica AWD. We will freaking LOVE the stow and go seats!

 

[Philpug]

I want this...

1998 Mazda MPV All Sport 4x4 - V6 Power, 1 Owner Until 2022, 4WD, Locking Differential

This 1998 Mazda MPV All Sport 4x4 is for sale on Cars & Bids! Auction ends February 20 2023.

carsandbids.com

 

[James]

Airplane makers figured out forced induction works for altitude in the 30’s. They used some big displacement reciprocating engines before turbines came along.

 

[jmeb]

When you meet your new gen counterpart

 

[socalgal]

The "nose" on the new one looks weird at that angle

 

[Tom K.]

The "nose" on the new one looks weird at that ANY angle

FIFY.

Trust me, there is no "good" angle for the new nose.

 

[nay]

FIFY.

Trust me, there is no "good" angle for the new nose.

The Toyota/Lexus fuel economy grill is awful. I mean, they all are, but these are particularly bad. Can’t have modern fuel economy without them, though.

Put a roof top box on something modern and it costs you what, 5 mpg?

 

[scott43]

Airplane makers figured out forced induction works for altitude in the 30’s. They used some big displacement reciprocating engines before turbines came along.

"Now playing in left field..."

 

[Snowfan]

I'm planning to get rid of my 22 Crosstrek manual and get a sienna all-wheel drive hybrid for next season. Need a little more room for my dog and I.

 

[snwbrdr]

The Toyota/Lexus fuel economy grill is awful. I mean, they all are, but these are particularly bad. Can’t have modern fuel economy without them, though.

Put a roof top box on something modern and it costs you what, 5 mpg?

It's not a fuel economy grille. It's just a huge grille that is mostly closed off for styling.

 

[scott43]

It's not a fuel economy grille. It's just a huge grille that is mostly closed off for styling.

Yeah, in fact, the grill is mostly to appease the buying public.. Most cars are designed to use air from below the bumper/above the air dam. There is still some utility to having a grill but its' mostly unnecessary..

 

[raytseng]

I thought a lot of the new flat fronts was to appease pedestrian / cyclist clobbering safety ratings.
The rest of the style is needed to help give the illusion of an angled nose, even though it's flat.

 

[scott43]

I thought a lot of the new flat fronts was to appease pedestrian / cyclist clobbering safety ratings.
The rest of the style is needed to help give the illusion of an angled nose, even though it's flat.

Yeah that reg was Euro in origin. Hood height had to be some value. Was really noticeable in the early Mazda adherents.

 

[tball]

I think the big grills along with small LED headlights are just to make the previous version look old so you'll buy a new one.

Similar to the Sienna update, here's the Sequoia as another example.

Looks old, don't want to be seen in this thing:

Not sure if it's ugly or not, but at least it doesn't look old:

Edit: my apologies to everyone who has to buy a new car after looking at their grill.