2022 Toyota Land Cruiser

[Philpug]

I think he got bored with it.

Probably because it didn't have Bluetooth or Apple Carplay.

 

[chris_the_wrench]

I didnt know landcruisers existed after 1998 in the US...

I like solid axles and I can not lie.

 

[Muleski]

I didnt know landcruisers existed after 1998 in the US...

I like solid axles and I can not lie.

True dat. The real off road chops of the LC disappeared in 1998, with the arrival of the 100. Now for those who don’t know, it was built with IFS and rack and pinion steering. The 105, not distributed in the US, still came with the solid front axles.

My brother owns a 2002 100, which he had converted to a solid axle by Christo Slee. Off road machine also has newer one for the road.

i have driven across most of the country in three of our 100’s over the years. Last time by myself averaging 90mph. Very comfortable. I LOVED our 80, but for our use…on the road, in the snow, a lot of highway….the 100 was a much better fit.

They are all great vehicles, IMO.

 

[chris_the_wrench]

i have driven across most of the country in three of our 100’s over the years. Last time by myself averaging 90mph. Very comfortable. I LOVED our 80, but for our use…on the road, in the snow, a lot of highway….the 100 was a much better fit.

You nailed it. I love my solid axles for banging around the dirt where I live, but on those long road trips give me some of that mini-van IFS cushion!! I make fun of IFS all the time for offroad use, but look at trophy trucks!

I still lust after getting a 80 series and doing the aftermarket 4wd disconnect, helps out that nasty mpg a smidge.

-Chris

 

[tball]

The big question for me what's the next US Land Cruiser?

I can't see Toyota not using the Land Cruiser brand equity on a new vehicle, especially how hot the big SUV and the off-road markets are these days. That would be business malpractice. How long is the only question? 2024? 2025?

Here's my prediction/hope for the next US Land Cruiser: an EV off-roader along the lines of the Hummer EV, but with a generator under the hood.

The gas/diesel generator will charge the batteries when there's no plug or can operate continuously while driving in a gas/diesel-electric mode, making it an extraordinarily efficient overland vehicle. As a bonus feature, the generator can power your house when the grid goes down!

 

[DanoT]

Here's my prediction/hope for the next US Land Cruiser: an EV off-roader along the lines of the Hummer EV, but with a generator under the hood.

Toyota is on record as stating that eventually every model that they sell will have a hybrid version. I don't expect Toyota to do much with full EVs until a light weight, smaller solid state or other battery technology is available.

 

[tball]

Toyota is on record as stating that eventually every model that they sell will have a hybrid version. I don't expect Toyota to do much with full EVs until a light weight, smaller solid state or other battery technology is available.

Very true with Toyota's mass-market vehicles. Given their scale, they have said they can better utilize constrained battery production capacity by selling hybrids instead of EVs. A hybrid only needs a fraction of the battery of an EV, so the overall impact is larger by producing hybrids vs. EVs.

But, the Land Cruiser isn't a mass-production. Especially if it's a high-end overland diesel/gas-electric vehicle, they could sell it in small quantities north of $100K like the Hummer EV. It could be a vehicle showing the market they can do an EV, demonstrate their off-road chops, and a platform to build from for the fourth generation Tundra/Sequoia and Global LC around 2035.

 

[DanoT]

But, the Land Cruiser isn't a mass-production. Especially if it's a high-end overland diesel/gas-electric vehicle, they could sell it in small quantities north of $100K like the Hummer EV.

If it has a diesel/gas-electric propulsion then it is a hybrid, not a battery EV. Toyota has 20+ years of gas-electric hybrid drive trains experience so that is what they will go with, not a new technology for a low production SUV like the Landcruiser.

 

[nay]

The big question for me what's the next US Land Cruiser?

I can't see Toyota not using the Land Cruiser brand equity on a new vehicle, especially how hot the big SUV and the off-road markets are these days. That would be business malpractice. How long is the only question? 2024? 2025?

Here's my prediction/hope for the next US Land Cruiser: an EV off-roader along the lines of the Hummer EV, but with a generator under the hood.

The gas/diesel generator will charge the batteries when there's no plug or can operate continuously while driving in a gas/diesel-electric mode, making it an extraordinarily efficient overland vehicle. As a bonus feature, the generator can power your house when the grid goes down!

The 300 series has no market reasoning here - it’s too small and that fuel economy front fascia Is a disaster for any type of true off-roading premise, IFS notwithstanding.

Toyota is going to lose a lot of sales to the pace of what the Americans are doing with an all in focus on trucks - my guess is we see a North America offroader model, which in turn doesn’t make much sense elsewhere in the world. As a global brand name, it really needs to exist at both ends of the spectrum.

 

[JeffB]

The LC saga in the US of late is a bit sad. Fanboy here. Have had 60s, 80s, and a current 100 in the family. I started a thread some months ago about the killing of the brand in this country, which eventually led to me ordering a 2020 Heritage Edition, which I tried to justify in various self-serving ways.

A few months passed. Saw a couple Heritages driving around. Still liked it a lot. Then the guilt set in, especially with 3 kids who generate not insignificant school tuition and have not yet made it to college. I called the dealership manager and canceled the order about a month ago.

90K is a ton of jack for a car that is supposed to be beat up. I’ll grant that most owners probably don’t see dirt at all unless they have to park in a field for a kid soccer game. But that’s not what I do - it would be used for bird hunting with the dogs and fly fishing trips with camping, and all kinds of kid soccer and travel baseball stuff. And daily driver. The LC is too nice for all of that, and though I can afford it, the overall financial stupidity of it, especially if you factor in what that amount would be if left where it belongs for 20+ more years (I’m 45) brought me back to my senses.

I still want one, but I’m not going to do it. We replaced my wife’s Sequoia with a 2020 in December so I don’t need a family hauler. And my mid-size SUV is just fine for everything I need it to do.

For 90K, I can buy a brand new Tacoma TRD and also book a month long luxury safari in Botswana where we can ride around in the real LCs. And have money left over.

So that’s what I did - part of it. Waiting on the guy I use to tell me my Tacoma TRD with the 6MT has arrived. I’m well aware of the differences between it and the LC and that the truck is not a LC, but it will do every bit of what I need it to do and I won’t feel like shit about the price or the fact that my dogs and kids will inevitably destroy the interior. And one day I’ll book Botswana.

If Toyota makes a modern version of the 45 for sale here to go against the Bronco and Defender reboots, I’ll take a hard look at it. Until then, for me at least, I’m content without one.

 

[Muleski]

Interesting, @JeffB. And completely understand. As I've posted before, many a time, my wife and I are both BIG LC fans, and have been since we bought our first 80, in 1996. We're on our fourth now, a 2003 with 155K miles. It's just about to get a nice cosmetic refresh next month. It's my wife's DD, and we've had great luck with it. Actually, we have had nothing but good experiences. This one is driven less that any others that we have owned. And we hope to keep it for another 150K miles. It looks darn good now, is mechanically "fully booked" with zero issues. I ran a couple of errands yesterday and had two people ask me if I'd sell AND a third leave a note under the wiper blade.

My brother has a search underway to find one of this generation. The best he can find. I am sure that he'll find one to replace their 2001, with 275K miles. He and I share the opinion that the vehicles are unique, and for our purposes fit the need. Between us we have also owned Denali Yukons, Range Rovers, Cayenne's, Tiguans, and have driven more. Just love these. BUT, hell no will either of buy a new one at the $90K price point. No. No thanks. I'll gladly overpay for an elusive minty 100.

I'm very close to buying a friend's 60, that has lived it's entire life in a nice dry, rust free area. It's no garage queen, but it would be perfect for a lot of our use. It would serve as my relative beater. Again. I just happen to have a fondness for them, and I know a LOT about them. As I do the 100's.

Our son has a 2002 Tacoma, TRD, V6 with the 5 speed. He bought in 14 years ago with 80K miles. Now has 335K on the clock. It looks pretty damn good for that. Not perfect. Mechanically, it continues to amaze. Original clutch. Yeah, it's at the point where he needs to replace something significant every now and then, but he does all of his own work and you can source any part. Reasonably. We've had a LOT of vehicles in this family, and this one has just been incredible.

So.....he needs to replace it. At some point. He has another car, as well. Not an immediate need. He needs to replace it with a truck. And the current market sucks. He is NOT a new truck buyer. The prices of used Tacoma's is "ridiculously strong" and availability "ridiculously low." He needs a full sized bed. He'd like something that will last. He almost bought a diesel Ram with about 90K miles a month ago, but as he said he foolishly took 15 minutes to get a cup of coffee to think about it, and when he returned to buy it, it had been sold, sight unseen over the phone/net to be shipped 1000+ miles away.

I agree that the TRD with the six speed will do a LOT as a vehicle. I have 2-3 friends with them, all very happy. And I think all run through their respective businesses.

Son, BTW has zero interest in a Tundra. None.

I just get very nostalgic about seeing the LC "go away" as a vehicle in the USA.

 

[JeffB]

@Muleski it was a really difficult call and I still agonize over it a little. But I think it’s the correct call at this stage of my life.

I have no problem buying new Toyotas, especially with what the used market looks like these days. My wife’s old Sequoia, 2008, we bought new and kept for 12 years and 170K miles. And only God knows how many spilled sippy cups and all kinds of other things. Mechanically, it was still perfect, but from a tech perspective, it was starting to show its age with phone connectivity and a few other things. Small complaints, but it served its purpose and commanded a trade value much higher than I expected. My wife wanted the exact same thing, so that’s what we did. Same color and everything except no entertainment package now because they are basically superfluous. Instead, it’s a wifi hotspot (with a monthly fee). Barring a major accident, it wouldn’t surprise me if we have this one another 12-15 years.

My plan for the Taco is to drive it daily for 4-6 years, at which point it will have about 120-150K on it. Then I will park it and use it for weekend duty to the garden center, fishing trips, hunting, etc. It will probably drop down to 5K or so miles a year at that point and has the potential to last me the rest of my life, even if that life turns out to be longer than I deserve.

I have an incredible fondness for the LC. As I think I’ve posted before, it brings back a lot of memories for me when growing up and traveling all over to tennis tournaments, family vacations, and other hijinks. And doing that with a couple people who have now passed on. But I also know that the first time a McFlurry gets dumped on the seat or I’ve got to get two dogs with bog mud all over them back in a brand new one, I’ll lose my noodles.

2028 is not so far away and who knows what the state of the car market and offerings will be then. I’ll have a least one kid off the breadline then (fingers crossed), so perhaps I’ll treat myself to something. Again, for now I’m (mostly) content with the decision.

 

[tball]

Toyota announced the new Tundra yesterday. First complete redesign since 2007!

This great article makes a case for it being our new LC:

The New 2022 Tundra is North America’s New Land Cruiser - Expedition Portal

Editor’s Note: We have received a specification update from Toyota indicating that the payload of the TRD PRO variant will be 1,600 pounds, not the 1455 indicated on the door sticker shown below. This is exciting news, seeing this significant increase in the available capacity of such a capable...

expeditionportal.com

With the Tundra (and Sequoia next year) built on the same platform as the global LC, it's making more sense why Toyota isn't marketing a Land Cruiser version. Why pay more for a substantially similar vehicle.

I'm super excited to get the LC reliability at a lower cost and with wide availability. Of course, the 300 series LC will be available as a next-generation LX if you are ok with the luxury brand and trim.

I've been leery of the new V6 turbo being the only engine option going forward (as the owner of Toyota 4.6, 4.7, and 5.8L V8's!). Given it's one of the global LC engines, here's hoping it's engineered to be another million-mile engine in spite of the turbo.

 

[James]

This isn’t helping end the era of ridiculous and large front ends, but even just painting the middle of bumper would help.

Feature designed to so annoy a driver they leave the passenger on the side of the road- center console with attached arms.

This means every time the passenger goes to get a tissue the driver has to move his arm over and squirm aside.

 

[Ogg]

Toyota announced the new Tundra yesterday. First complete redesign since 2007!

This great article makes a case for it being our new LC:

The New 2022 Tundra is North America’s New Land Cruiser - Expedition Portal

Editor’s Note: We have received a specification update from Toyota indicating that the payload of the TRD PRO variant will be 1,600 pounds, not the 1455 indicated on the door sticker shown below. This is exciting news, seeing this significant increase in the available capacity of such a capable...

expeditionportal.com

With the Tundra (and Sequoia next year) built on the same platform as the global LC, it's making more sense why Toyota isn't marketing a Land Cruiser version. Why pay more for a substantially similar vehicle.

I'm super excited to get the LC reliability at a lower cost and with wide availability. Of course, the 300 series LC will be available as a next-generation LX if you are ok with the luxury brand and trim.

I've been leery of the new V6 turbo being the only engine option going forward (as the owner of Toyota 4.6, 4.7, and 5.8L V8's!). Given it's one of the global LC engines, here's hoping it's engineered to be another million-mile engine in spite of the turbo.

I'm in the camp of DNW a turbo motor for a full sized truck. I know modern turbos are far more reliable than in the past but it just adds a bunch of extra parts that take a beating and can and will eventually fail.

 

[DanoT]

I'm in the camp of DNW a turbo motor for a full sized truck. I know modern turbos are far more reliable than in the past but it just adds a bunch of extra parts that take a beating and can and will eventually fail.

My '93 MR2 turbo has 219k kms and is a low pressure turbo delivering about 7-8 psi at full boost. I suspect a twin turbo V6 from Toyota will also be low pressure.

I also own a Cummins turbo diesel truck and previously have owned a turbo Celica Alltrack and Volvo XC70 with a 5 cylinder turbo. Not only have I not had turbo problems but I don't recall turbos being a problem on any of the online forums that I frequented for the above cars.

Further: I suspect that the Twin Turbo V6 Tundra will be a lot more powerful than the V8 it replaces and get better fuel economy.

 

[Andy Mink]

I also own a Cummins turbo diesel truck

I've had two plus the one I have now. The 2006 my son is driving now has almost 200,000 miles on it with no turbo issues. Sold the '97 to get the 2006 when it had 125K, no problems. I think they (and GM and Ford) had problems in the 08-09 timeframe when more emissions came into play but that's been all ironed out as far as I know. And those turbos are running in the mid to upper teens as far as pressure goes.

 

[tball]

I'm in the camp of DNW a turbo motor for a full sized truck. I know modern turbos are far more reliable than in the past but it just adds a bunch of extra parts that take a beating and can and will eventually fail.

I've always avoided turbos, as I tend to keep my vehicles around. I still have my 2000 Tundra I bought new when it first came out. It's been super reliable despite being the first model year. It's only two generations old 22 years later.

Toyota has too much riding on the new twin-turbo V6 to screw it up. It's a global engine across critical products. A version of it has also been in the flagship Lexus 500 since 2017.

Further: I suspect that the Twin Turbo Tundra will be a lot more powerful than the V8 it replaces and get better fuel economy.

What's really interesting is the positioning of the hybrid version of the twin-turbo V6. The only engines offered in the Tundra are the twin-turbo V6 and the same with an electric motor sandwiched between the engine and transmission.

The hybrid is the premium engine designed for more power and to mimic a diesel power curve. It will get better fuel economy, but that's a nice side effect. The design goal was torque. The hybrid is only offered in upper trim levels and is the only engine offered in the off-road TRD PRO. Interesting decisions.

 

[nay]

I have to say that independent of million mile longevity, the newer turbo platforms are so good. Our new 2021 Ascent just notched 26 mpg carrying 6 people from the front range to Vail and back over the weekend, and the power up the passes including east Vail is effortless, you don’t even notice them. The people driving big V8 trucks can’t go any faster for half the fuel economy and have to drive it harder - this is a 2.5L 4 cyl engine at 5,500 lbs with passenger weight rolling up that pass at 75 mph, quiet and refined. I’ve gone from slogging around in 2nd gear trying to hold speed to having to think about speeding tickets while going up the passes.

I love the old iron trucks, and I am keeping mine on 38’s, but honestly…and I’m the last person who I thought would be saying this…good riddance. We drove to Eagle and back yesterday for ms. nay’s work, I mountain biked while she had her meeting, and we had dinner and drove home. The driving is so easy I wasn’t even tired when we got back and I didn’t even bother using the excellent adaptive cruise control.

And this is a loaded to the hilt touring edition that is a flat out luxury vehicle MSRP $47K. Tows a trailer effortlessly (in return for gulping premium), integrated Subaru crossmember replacement hitch is nice and high for the bikes. There are tires coming out specifically for these vehicles like the Falken Wildpeak AT Trail to get a bit of a heavier duty setup and there is no ridiculous front fascia needed to improve fuel economy. My only critique is 20“ wheels are stupid, there isn’t enough rubber so it’s getting 18” wheels and the suspension should be more performance oriented, but that can be fixed if it bugs me enough (ms. nay doesn’t care, it’s her car).

I just bought the 8 year 120K warranty, made the car a bit more expensive, covers everything. It’s just reality now and the dealer does all the maintenance to build the carfax resume. Paying double this for a Land Cruiser with a V8? Nobody is going to do that, which is why it’s gone.

 

[Andy Mink]

My only critique is 20“ wheels are stupid

And the tires cost more. Less rubber, more money, worse ride. On a performance vehicle, yes, they make sense. On a highway cruiser? Not so much. I'll slow down on the curves to get a better ride. I have a feeling the Ascent will be on the shortlist when we get around to getting @AKMINK a new ride.