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Mid-Atlantic 2023-2024 New York Ski Resort/Conditions/Meetups

ADKmel

Skiing the powder
Skier
Joined
Jan 6, 2016
Posts
2,320
Location
Southern Adirondacks NY

4aprice

Out on the slopes
Skier
Joined
Apr 2, 2018
Posts
930
Location
Lake Hopatcong, NJ and Granby Co
The biggest problem in New York skiing is the state does not like competition. Hunter, Windham and nothing in the Adirondacks.

NYS Only operates Gore, Whiteface and Belleayre
There are LOTS of privately owned ski areas!! My local Mt is Royal Mt. Started in late 1950's by my Dad and other 10th Mt Veterans.. they had an investor that bought the land.
Here;s a full list- includes XC ski areas too https://www.iskiny.com/ski-new-york/mountains

My point is that NY has really limited the competition. I'm not saying all over the state but the locations of the highest mountains in NYS are the Catskill's and Adirondack's and they are pretty much shut off from any development. Windham possibly going private makes Hunter really the only major area competing with the state.
 

ADKmel

Skiing the powder
Skier
Joined
Jan 6, 2016
Posts
2,320
Location
Southern Adirondacks NY
My point is that NY has really limited the competition. I'm not saying all over the state but the locations of the highest mountains in NYS are the Catskill's and Adirondack's and they are pretty much shut off from any development. Windham possibly going private makes Hunter really the only major area competing with the state.
With 50 Ski areas in NY I guess I don't get your complaint? What Do you want? a ski area on Mt Marcy? There are some knarly trails on the privately owned ski areas, even at 1000 or less vert one can get in a good day of skiing in. Whiteface IS the biggest in the East- Gore does have the most horizontal in the East, lol, has the Rumor and a lot of nice terrain, both are cheap compared to going out west or to Stowe/Kmart etc. (unless you have a mega resort pass) Even if a billionaire bought a Mt in ADKS Or Catskills, would people go? Our Mts don't usually have a valley to park cars, build a lodge etc. not many roads to access either. ADKs are unique in that regard.. Rte 78 up to Lake Placid has nothing but steep drop offs no way could a ski are be put in. IMO Most couldn't ski the ADK Mts that I've hiked. Many take 4runs at Whiteface and are done, it is the Olympic Mt.

Do you know how many ski areas go out of business because of $$$? too many! I think at one time there were nearly 100 ski areas in NY.
Personally, I like having State Run at least we get snowmaking, lodge upgrades, lift upgrades etc. I don't get much for my taxes (72%of my land tax bill goes to welfare, medicaid and State Mandates) so I like that I can ski Gore/Whiteface for not much $$. I agree NYS is a big pig beast to any corporation with high taxes, insurance and regulations that as State run area, they get away with a lot IMO-- 2yrs ago Gore had NO Drinking water on the mt.. YUK.. Couldn't put a UV system in so we could get a drink of (free) water!

Windham going private appears to be all about the $$$ should be interesting. I'm wondering if the billionaire couldn't get into the Yellowstone club that's where the uber rich ski ;-) LOL.. Hunter/Windham are almost 3hrs for me so I'll go ski gore 50min or WF 2hrs or VT vs go south for crowds and warm snow conditions..

I'm sure you know that many States "lease" land to ski areas and they (govt) control the opening and closing dates, upgrades, improvements, Okemo has to wait til the bears go to bed or get a foot of snow before they can Open Jackson Gore. Out West Alta closes before Snowbird right next door! National forest rules many ski areas are on National private land.

I love my home Mt. it's small but loads of fun.. Another private area is Hickory- In Warrensburg (by Gore) They've been trying to open for years now need $$ for Insurance.Check it out and Please donate https://skihickory.com/ Historically we have raised funds to cover insurance and other operating costs through the sale of season passes. We have been hesitant to do that given the challenges we faced with lift certification. We no longer have a choice. Our timeline is short. We have until December 15th to raise sufficient funds to cover our full insurance premium payment of $38,000. Yes, it is outrageous, and we have explored all options over the last 2 years to lower this amount, with no success. We anticipate that this premium will be reduced in subsequent years because the cost reflects our lapse in insurance coverage, placing us in a high-risk category and that we would be offered quarterly or monthly premium payment options.

For me, I don't ski any big area on Weekends, holidays, even when out west, I avoid Xmas/Easter/MLK/Pres Week. I ski the small areas for much better experience. Many of us like the small private Mts. low cost, the lifties know our names, food is cheap, kids can go ski on their own without getting lost, the snow is plentiful and lots of fun and I like supporting the private areas- A lot of work to keep them open! Skiing is skiing for me.. I don't care where I am, I want few people and decent snow, any day on snow, is better than not skiing.

Wondering Where do you normally ski Hunter? Windham? Colorado? Where? I'm jelly.. Day 1 for me at Gore was GREAT yesterday only 2 trails but the snow compared to out west, light powder on top of packed powder, even where the boarders skinned it off was edge-able and there wasn't anyone there. 7 runs, over 10miles.. If it was private they wouldn't be open for the 50 of us! Gore and Whiteface are blowing tons of snow.. We're getting lake affect snow now too, hurrah.. Picking up 5" or more every day, with the big plumes coming our way.. THINK SNOW

Here's an interesting list of NY ski areas when they opened. My Local Bump Royal needs to be added, it was started in 1957-58!


1701276170075.png
 
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johnnyvw

Out on the slopes
Skier
Joined
Dec 20, 2016
Posts
1,633
Location
near RDU
Interesting that they give 2007 as the opening year for Tuxedo Ridge, when the original ski area Sterling Forest opened in 1962.

I'm not even sure Tuxedo Ridge is in operation anymore. As close as they are located to the NY/NJ metro area, they certainly had plenty of potential customers, so it's not competition from state run areas that did them in (twice)

There are quite a number of defunct ski areas in the lower Catskills...Big Vanilla at Davos, Bobcat, etc. Much closer to the population centers, but still failed. My guess would be that with better vehicles and roadways, going farther north to bigger ski areas led to their demise (along with insurance costs and a few bad winters). One of my favorite ski areas was Highmount, right next door to Belleayre.

My point is that without the taxpayer money that helps keep the state run areas going, they may have suffered the same fate. I haven't been to Gore or Whiteface in about 10 years (or even Belleayre, now that I think about it), but at that time they didn't have the lodge amenities that most of their competition had. It's not like the state is pumping a ton of money into them, but they are keeping them operational, which IMO is a good thing
 
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GB_Ski

Out on the slopes
Skier
Joined
Jan 29, 2019
Posts
716
Location
NYC
My point is that NY has really limited the competition. I'm not saying all over the state but the locations of the highest mountains in NYS are the Catskill's and Adirondack's and they are pretty much shut off from any development. Windham possibly going private makes Hunter really the only major area competing with the state.
What do you mean they shut off development? Last time I checked, 50% of Adirondacks is owned by private entities. Catskill has even a higher percentage (60%?) of private ownership.
 

jt10000

步步高升
Skier
Joined
Apr 21, 2019
Posts
1,056
Location
New York City
@cantunamunch FWP can be very good when they have enough snow - they've got nice trails and good grooming skills.

But the problem is it snows so little nowadays and the ground is often not that cold. So when it snows, it doesn't last and it's hard for them to groom well with thin cover. Some winters it barely opens.

Here's video from 10+ years ago on a good day.
 

4aprice

Out on the slopes
Skier
Joined
Apr 2, 2018
Posts
930
Location
Lake Hopatcong, NJ and Granby Co
With 50 Ski areas in NY I guess I don't get your complaint? What Do you want? a ski area on Mt Marcy? There are some knarly trails on the privately owned ski areas, even at 1000 or less vert one can get in a good day of skiing in. Whiteface IS the biggest in the East- Gore does have the most horizontal in the East, lol, has the Rumor and a lot of nice terrain, both are cheap compared to going out west or to Stowe/Kmart etc. (unless you have a mega resort pass) Even if a billionaire bought a Mt in ADKS Or Catskills, would people go? Our Mts don't usually have a valley to park cars, build a lodge etc. not many roads to access either. ADKs are unique in that regard.. Rte 78 up to Lake Placid has nothing but steep drop offs no way could a ski are be put in. IMO Most couldn't ski the ADK Mts that I've hiked. Many take 4runs at Whiteface and are done, it is the Olympic Mt.

Do you know how many ski areas go out of business because of $$$? too many! I think at one time there were nearly 100 ski areas in NY.
Personally, I like having State Run at least we get snowmaking, lodge upgrades, lift upgrades etc. I don't get much for my taxes (72%of my land tax bill goes to welfare, medicaid and State Mandates) so I like that I can ski Gore/Whiteface for not much $$. I agree NYS is a big pig beast to any corporation with high taxes, insurance and regulations that as State run area, they get away with a lot IMO-- 2yrs ago Gore had NO Drinking water on the mt.. YUK.. Couldn't put a UV system in so we could get a drink of (free) water!

Windham going private appears to be all about the $$$ should be interesting. I'm wondering if the billionaire couldn't get into the Yellowstone club that's where the uber rich ski ;-) LOL.. Hunter/Windham are almost 3hrs for me so I'll go ski gore 50min or WF 2hrs or VT vs go south for crowds and warm snow conditions..

I'm sure you know that many States "lease" land to ski areas and they (govt) control the opening and closing dates, upgrades, improvements, Okemo has to wait til the bears go to bed or get a foot of snow before they can Open Jackson Gore. Out West Alta closes before Snowbird right next door! National forest rules many ski areas are on National private land.

I love my home Mt. it's small but loads of fun.. Another private area is Hickory- In Warrensburg (by Gore) They've been trying to open for years now need $$ for Insurance.Check it out and Please donate https://skihickory.com/ Historically we have raised funds to cover insurance and other operating costs through the sale of season passes. We have been hesitant to do that given the challenges we faced with lift certification. We no longer have a choice. Our timeline is short. We have until December 15th to raise sufficient funds to cover our full insurance premium payment of $38,000. Yes, it is outrageous, and we have explored all options over the last 2 years to lower this amount, with no success. We anticipate that this premium will be reduced in subsequent years because the cost reflects our lapse in insurance coverage, placing us in a high-risk category and that we would be offered quarterly or monthly premium payment options.

For me, I don't ski any big area on Weekends, holidays, even when out west, I avoid Xmas/Easter/MLK/Pres Week. I ski the small areas for much better experience. Many of us like the small private Mts. low cost, the lifties know our names, food is cheap, kids can go ski on their own without getting lost, the snow is plentiful and lots of fun and I like supporting the private areas- A lot of work to keep them open! Skiing is skiing for me.. I don't care where I am, I want few people and decent snow, any day on snow, is better than not skiing.

Wondering Where do you normally ski Hunter? Windham? Colorado? Where? I'm jelly.. Day 1 for me at Gore was GREAT yesterday only 2 trails but the snow compared to out west, light powder on top of packed powder, even where the boarders skinned it off was edge-able and there wasn't anyone there. 7 runs, over 10miles.. If it was private they wouldn't be open for the 50 of us! Gore and Whiteface are blowing tons of snow.. We're getting lake affect snow now too, hurrah.. Picking up 5" or more every day, with the big plumes coming our way.. THINK SNOW

Here's an interesting list of NY ski areas when they opened. My Local Bump Royal needs to be added, it was started in 1957-58!


View attachment 216867
It’s not a complaint, just my opinion. And no, I don't want trails cut and lifts strung up on Marcy or Slide Mountain in the Catskills. Since before the turn of the last Century the Adirondack and Catskill Parks have been declared "forever wild". I'm sure there are other peaks beside Whiteface and Gore that are skiable in the Adirondacks. Doesn't mean they should have, or would have been developed. The option was never there. In the Catskills you have the story of Princeton Ski Bowl (aka Bearpen) which Harvey put out on his NYskiblog which demonstrates the difficulty of development in that area. The tax payers of New York State seem happy with this setup. I'm not a NY tax payer so I only hold an opinion.

I ski multiple ski regions/season including NY state from time to time. From my perspective there are 5 "major" ski areas in NY (from south to north Belleayre, Hunter, Windham, Gore and Whiteface) The West's, McCauley's, Oak's, Hickory's even Plattekill all may be cool and fun to ski but are not "major" in my book (West of I-81 is off my radar). IMO the skier coming out of the NYC metro area is much more likely to go to Mt Snow, Stratton, Okemo or Killington then any of the smaller areas mentioned. (compared simply for comparable travel time an distance). It's pretty doubtful that there will be any more major ski development anywhere in the Northeast so it is what it is.
 

surfsnowgirl

Instructor
Skier
Joined
May 12, 2016
Posts
5,679
Location
Magic Mountain, Vermont
I went to Belleayre last season and had the best time. I met my friend who skis there regularly and she showed me around which was very limited because it was closing day. All that was open were the black off the summit, a blue trail mid mountain I think and then one run down if you wanted to ski down. Alternatively you could ski down to mid mountain and take the mid chair back to summit to ride gondola back down. I felt like skiing to the lodge was some kind of right of passage so that's what we did. If you wanted to meander about mid mountain there was some walking involved but we mostly just skied the top half of the mountain. I had a blast, an utter blast.............. I can't wait to ski belleayre again when more is open.
 

SKI-3PO

Making fresh tracks
Skier
Team Gathermeister
SkiTalk Supporter
Joined
Nov 12, 2015
Posts
1,614
Location
PA
Skied Windham…sorry, Windham Mountain Club today. It seems slightly easier to get Ikon reservations these days. There must have been a “discussion”. Got on the snow about 8:30. Wet snow lived up to its name today - I didn’t know a snowflake could hold so much liquid. You didn’t want to be on any flattish terrain. When I eventually found Wheelchair with snowmaking whales, I stayed there for the rest of my day there. Unfortunately my gloves became waterlogged and my spare dry gloves were in my car in the peons parking lot. So I gave up around noon to dry out and drove home. Not a huge fan of Windham, but Wheelchair was worth the effort.
 

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