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2023 Mountain Biking

nay

dirt heel pusher
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I made a mistake doing more research. I guess it helps to have a hall of fame mountain biker leading trail development over many years in your community.

I had a Fezzari Kings Peak in the cart all the way through sizing measurements this afternoon. And of course my wife got Fezzari ads in her Facebook feed. She looks up after being home for 15 minutes “Been looking at Fezzari bikes?” :P
 
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Tom K.

Tom K.

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Fezzari Kings Peak

These look great.

Except for the possibility of being saddled with Clarks brakes.

Sounds like it would be better to get it without brakes and a $$$ credit, then add your own real brakes:

 
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nay

dirt heel pusher
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These look great.

Except for the possibility of being saddled with Clarks brakes.

Sounds like it would be better to get it without brakes and a $$$ credit, then add your own real brakes:

The higher level model has G2s, GX drivetrain and a couple other things. I like the modern geo since I would be trail riding.

XL has a 490mm reach. I’ll be interested in that NSMB review, that’s hot off the shelf. In the meantime, this is Dave Weins and crew riding in Hartmans. I struggle to express how appealing this is as the biggest bone in my body is healing.

D99985CF-DDBF-4457-A9AF-D3C193F23AEA.jpeg

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Tom K.

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The higher level model has G2s, GX drivetrain

Perfectly adequate for all things fat bike.

Get that cc warmed up!!!
 
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firebanex

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GX drivetrain + XX1 shifter is even better. Adjusting the lever position made a much needed comfort improvement when inside the poagies of my fat bike.

Tonight's route took us by the creepy penguin house that had free Kisses last time... this time was free Reeses! I still did not actually partake, strange food from a stuffed penguin in the middle of the valley next to an abandoned house on stilts? yeah that's safe.

20230207_190712.jpg
 

nay

dirt heel pusher
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I agree on at least X01 shifter. It’s interesting that Fatbike builds don’t tend to have higher end drivetrain builds - maybe the idea of a more workhorse groupset fits the extreme temp conditions better?
 

firebanex

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Best I can tell yes. Reliability and cost since there is so little variation in parts choice availability for the rest of the bike. $2k gets you 10speed Deore, $3k gets NX Eagle, $4k gets you GX Eagle all on pretty much the same bike frame. The weight differences between the groupsets is pretty nill considering the tires alone tend to weigh at least 1100g and a tube is 400g. Saving a couple grams going from GX to XO1 or XX1 components isn't worth the upfront cost for most fat bikers. We'd rather drop a crap ton of weight and rolling resistance with a set of carbon wheels and tubeless set up before the drivetrain.

I think another reason is the increasing prevalence of electronic groups at the higher price points on MTB's.. and they don't work in the cold. Local shop guys experimented with AXS this season and they could only get it to work to about 0*f and they still needed to pack a warm battery to swap mid ride to keep it going. Unreliability is not a selling point for a winter fatbike, and I'd argue that actual winter riding is the bulk of fat bike purchases now that the bubble has burst (a few years ago).

I personally wonder why we don't see 12speed Shimano on many fatbikes, think it may just have to do with SRAM beating them to the 12s punch. Or shimano doesn't have a fatbike width crank might be the real reason.
 
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dirt heel pusher
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Best I can tell yes. Reliability and cost since there is so little variation in parts choice availability for the rest of the bike. $2k gets you 10speed Deore, $3k gets NX Eagle, $4k gets you GX Eagle all on pretty much the same bike frame. The weight differences between the groupsets is pretty nill considering the tires alone tend to weigh at least 1100g and a tube is 400g. Saving a couple grams going from GX to XO1 or XX1 components isn't worth the upfront cost for most fat bikers. We'd rather drop a crap ton of weight and rolling resistance with a set of carbon wheels and tubeless set up before the drivetrain.

I think another reason is the increasing prevalence of electronic groups at the higher price points on MTB's.. and they don't work in the cold. Local shop guys experimented with AXS this season and they could only get it to work to about 0*f and they still needed to pack a warm battery to swap mid ride to keep it going. Unreliability is not a selling point for a winter fatbike, and I'd argue that actual winter riding is the bulk of fat bike purchases now that the bubble has burst (a few years ago).

I personally wonder why we don't see 12speed Shimano on many fatbikes, think it may just have to do with SRAM beating them to the 12s punch. Or shimano doesn't have a fatbike width crank might be the real reason.
This makes sense, particularly on the electronic focus side for “regular” mountain biking. Dropping 2 lbs by going tubeless is obvious over the very few grams of GX for XO. Those higher level drivetrains certainly shift better and the chains last longer, but if you are peddle down snow climbing I guess you’d never feel it.

I’m still ogling that King’s Peak - it’s $3,200 tubeless with dropper and a few accessories. Shimano may be skipping fatbikes all together because they see the market consolidating as you say purely around snow riding. I mean, for hardback riding I’d just ride my full suspension outside of being smart that it’s best to not expose all of those expensive bits to the cold.
 
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Tom K.

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I agree on at least X01 shifter.

I went from NX shifter, cassette and derailleur to GX shifter and XO1 cassette, so my standards were low. ;)

We'd rather drop a crap ton of weight and rolling resistance with a set of carbon wheels and tubeless set up before the drivetrain.

Well, of course I bought carbon wheels and went tubeless first. Why even ask?!

And a ti post in there somewhere.

I'm beyond help -- you know, in a good way.
 

nay

dirt heel pusher
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I went from NX shifter, cassette and derailleur to GX shifter and XO1 cassette, so my standards were low. ;)



Well, of course I bought carbon wheels and went tubeless first. Why even ask?!

And a ti post in there somewhere.

I'm beyond help -- you know, in a good way.
$1,500 extra for those carbon wheels. How much weight are you getting there, can’t really be a performance difference on snow?
 
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Tom K.

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the chains last longer,

XO1 and XX1 chains last over twice as long as GX. It's a really smart place to spend a few extra bucks.

Hope your healing is going well!
 
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Tom K.

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$1,500 extra for those carbon wheels. How much weight are you getting there, can’t really be a performance difference on snow?

It's HUGE, both on the scale and when riding.

I went from Sun Ringle Mulefoot 100 mm rims with tubed D4 60 tpi tires to Nextie single-walled 80 mm carbon rims, set up tubeless with D4 120 tpi studded tires.

Note that this type of rim is best used in a snow-only mode, or very light dirt at most. Rims strikes really not tolerated.

OTOH I've also got a set of Bontrager Wampa wheels, which are carbon double-walled construction and they are bomb-proof in any use.
 
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firebanex

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Yeah, the weight you drop when going from the industry standard tubed Mulefut 80's or 100's to a set of carbon hoops and tubeless in the same go.. well it's conservatively around 4lbs across both wheels. and that is absolutely huge since you are talking about losing rotating weight. It's also generally accepted that converting to tubeless on a fatbike saves about 25% rolling resistance and when the tires are around 40-50 watts per tire and you are on an unstable soft surface... yeah it adds up. My friends have to pedal downhills that I can coast down.

Next season's upgrades are gonna be a set of carbon wheels for me, keeping the alloy for the early season tussuk bashing and the carbons for when the trails get good.
 

rachet

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I made a mistake doing more research. I guess it helps to have a hall of fame mountain biker leading trail development over many years in your community.

I had a Fezzari Kings Peak in the cart all the way through sizing measurements this afternoon. And of course my wife got Fezzari ads in her Facebook feed. She looks up after being home for 15 minutes “Been looking at Fezzari bikes?” :P

It's also not uncommon for online ads to follow us around based on our browsing history, so it's not surprising that your wife saw Fezzari ads after you looked at their bikes. Having a hall-of-fame mountain biker leading trail development in your community is definitely a plus, as they likely have a lot of knowledge and experience with different bikes and can give you valuable insights and recommendations.
In terms of the Fezzari Kings Peak, it's a solid bike and well-regarded in the mountain biking community. If it fits your needs and budget, and you're comfortable with the sizing measurements, it could be a good choice for you. Read out these information pages and Just make sure to consider all of your options and take the time to test ride different bikes to find the best fit for you.
 
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dirt heel pusher
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Yeah, the weight you drop when going from the industry standard tubed Mulefut 80's or 100's to a set of carbon hoops and tubeless in the same go.. well it's conservatively around 4lbs across both wheels. and that is absolutely huge since you are talking about losing rotating weight. It's also generally accepted that converting to tubeless on a fatbike saves about 25% rolling resistance and when the tires are around 40-50 watts per tire and you are on an unstable soft surface... yeah it adds up. My friends have to pedal downhills that I can coast down.

Next season's upgrades are gonna be a set of carbon wheels for me, keeping the alloy for the early season tussuk bashing and the carbons for when the trails get good.
Tubeless is a no brainer, I will never run tubes in anything. In regular mountain bikes, there are aluminum rims that are in the weight range of ‘can take hits’ carbon rims, so there you are really focused on performance with plenty of DH focused riders preferring aluminum. Sounds like here it’s just ‘standard cheap’.

I would want rims for more than snow riding, or more importantly, technical snow riding where there is no guarantee of avoiding rocks. And for riding with ms nay makes a ton of sense for her with a fatbike as a generalist bike. All that stability and no suspension dynamics is probably spot on, which isn’t something I’d considered before. Either that or I just want her to buy into me snow riding, but I’m trying to stay away from that idea :P
 
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Tom K.

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Tubeless is a no brainer, I will never run tubes in anything.

It is not that easy to set up a Mulefut rim for tubeless duty, what with the cutouts and all. Fatty Stripper is probably the best bet, but it's probably worth paying somebody that has done it before.

You can also do a pretty simple and intuitive Gorilla Tape approach, but it might add nearly as much weight as you save by removing the tubes. :geek:
 

nay

dirt heel pusher
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It is not that easy to set up a Mulefut rim for tubeless duty, what with the cutouts and all. Fatty Stripper is probably the best bet, but it's probably worth paying somebody that has done it before.

You can also do a pretty simple and intuitive Gorilla Tape approach, but it might add nearly as much weight as you save by removing the tubes. :geek:
Fezzari has tubeless setup as an $85 option straight out of the factory. And $1,500 for carbon rims. The weight reduction per $$$ is highly favoring it arriving tubeless on aluminum rims.
 

firebanex

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Yup. Sunringle Mulefuts are the "standard cheap" option for fatbikes. Not like there are really any other options though. They are still quite good for what they need to do, the rear hub has some bearing durability problems but otherwise they are light enough, strong, and work for all situations.
Double walled carbon rims are the bombproof 4-season option if you don't want a full on lightweight snow set of wheels. Something like the Nextie Wild Dragon is a pretty popular choice and not all that much heavier than the single wall rims that Nextie or HED make. I'm 80% convinced to do a single walled snow only set of wheels with 45nrth Husker Du's for max speed and float along with keeping the mulefuts with a set of aggressive partially studded fat's for the preseason tussock and ice bashing rides.
 
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Tom K.

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I love HED and their whole Minnesota "garage band" story, but these have a tissue paper reputation.

Though I've heard they made some changes, so maybe that's all in the rear view mirror.
 

firebanex

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Yes. The newer HED single wall rims are stiffer.. but still shouldn't be smacked into anything. It's also why im still debating the double verse single wall rim for my self. I don't really ride aggressively on the fat bike.. but I weigh 200lbs before I put gear on and I like low pressures in fat tires.
 

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