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2023 Rossignol FIS SL
- Thread starter silverback
- Start date
Finally got on a pair of these. (Rossi FIS SLs, not half-nuddy snowboarders). The rebound was most splendid, as was the turn entry, but the tips didn't feel like the tips of a slalom ski to me, in that they felt plasticy on windblown hardpack and ice, like the tips of a badly made cheater GS ski, and didn't have the same slicing feeling I'm used to from two pairs of Heads. I also struggled to pull off a thin carved track - it felt carved, but when I checked, the tracks were always a couple of inches wide. So I tried skiing on one ski on the flat, and even then the ski wanted to come away from the inside edge. I'd blame the tune, but it was 87/0.5 tip to tail. I'd blame the snow, but it was mostly very grippy stuff. I'd blame me, but I've been gripping fine with a Rossi GS ski in all conditions all season. I'd blame the binding position, but I moved it back and on the line was better. Only other thing I can think of is a lack of torsional stability, but that seems unlikely from a Rossi FIS SL. Any ideas?
Dull edges would be my guess.
First thing I looked for. They were top, tip to tail.
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- Dec 2, 2015
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I would move it forward.
My 2021 Dynastar fis sl ski changed dramatically moving it one set of holes foreword. I’m going to try another hole fore.
Before, there was just way too much pushback from the forebody. The ski reallyvwanted to stay in the fall line. Skiing in spring corn it was almost dangerous in that you didn’t want to come to a sudden stop or turn in too abruptly. Required a lot of attention.
In contrast, the Blizzards you could ski half asleep.
As James said, move the binding forward. I have a pair of Head Sl RD's that I bought slightly used and hated the ski(they did not want to turn past the fall line) until I moved the bindings forward and wow did they come alive. I suspect the previous owner hated the ski as well as the skis had no time on them and that is probably why I was able to buy them cheap.No idea what you are on about mate. Did you get yours from alibaba?
As a skier, over-educated engineer, and carvaholic, I can imagine two reasons for the behaviour you describe, besides your hypothesis.
You need more force digging that edge into the snow for the amount of sideways force the turn you dial up demands.
This could be you, not applying that force (many reasons - used to GS not SL, not enough up and down with in sync timing, not trying to rotate skis in opposite direction, trying to turn body before enough ski length is established in new groove, etc.).
This could also be ski longitudinal flex too soft for your weight and turn demand, causing tips to "fold up" a bit on you.
Of course you could be right and the ski may be too soft torsionally, but that is unlikely, unless it was made in that "other Chinese sister factory".
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Yeah that’s pretty much what mine did. It just felt like so much force coming back from the forebody that you had to over power it. In 3-D corn it was fairly scary. In contrast, the Blizzard I was used to you could eat a sandwich and have a conversation while skiing that same snow.
I posted a picture once of a 15/16 Blizzard and that Dynastar. The difference in binding position was large, over an inch. I saw the same thing some years ago when we were tuning a Head and Nordica (Blizzard) put next to each other. The Head was much more aft.
I know skis are different, but… for the same length, same type of ski the differences really were big.
Me skiing like a twat would certainly solve the mystery, and is certainly the most likely scenario. I'll definitely be giving them another go if they're available.As a skier, over-educated engineer, and carvaholic, I can imagine two reasons for the behaviour you describe, besides your hypothesis.
You need more force digging that edge into the snow for the amount of sideways force the turn you dial up demands.
This could be you, not applying that force (many reasons - used to GS not SL, not enough up and down with in sync timing, not trying to rotate skis in opposite direction, trying to turn body before enough ski length is established in new groove, etc.).
This could also be ski longitudinal flex too soft for your weight and turn demand, causing tips to "fold up" a bit on you.
Of course you could be right and the ski may be too soft torsionally, but that is unlikely, unless it was made in that "other Chinese sister factory".
Will explore it. I didn't think to do so for two reasons. One, my initial feeling was that I was very close to the tips anyway, and two, the 21/22 (or 20/21) Head FIS SL I was hoping they'd replace is mounted way far ahead of my old Heads and I've not got on with it at all. Those 21/22 Heads have hardly any ski to be seen when you look down, even when mounted as rearward as the plate will allow. They feel great going into the turn, and if you don't pressure them, but as soon as I do, they wash out. My old Heads, and the SLs I've used most, are the black ones from 2016 that no one else liked - so it could certainly be that the concept of recent SL design and how I ski just don't match up and I need to let them come forward more in the second half of the turn.
I much preferred the Rossis to the 21/22 Heads, and the turns FELT good, at odds with the loose tracks, although the Head tips, both old and new, feel slicier.
For what it's worth, both the 21/22 Heads and the Rossis are way lighter than the 2016 Heads.
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Mine were really well tuned right out of the wrappers, did some race prep and skied them right on centerline with a 25.5 boot. Excellent modern SL ski.
Two comments:
1. Most men's FIS SL skis are designed around a 25.5-26.5 shell. If your shell is significantly longer or shorter you may need to move the mounting point to get the ski balanced. In theory you shouldn't have to, but in practice you sometimes need to.
2. The new ski reflects the emerging SL technique, so the ski characteristics reflect that. If you expect to load the front of the ski and drive it through the turn this may not be your cup of tea. Or if you do ski this way the ski just sort of sits there. It's not a right or wrong thing, it's what you want out of a FIS SL ski. For reference watch Noel vs Pinterault. Both awesome SL skiers but with a very different turn shape and hence ski preference. It shouldn't come as a surprise that Noel's Dynastars are first cousins to the Rossi.
Two comments:
1. Most men's FIS SL skis are designed around a 25.5-26.5 shell. If your shell is significantly longer or shorter you may need to move the mounting point to get the ski balanced. In theory you shouldn't have to, but in practice you sometimes need to.
2. The new ski reflects the emerging SL technique, so the ski characteristics reflect that. If you expect to load the front of the ski and drive it through the turn this may not be your cup of tea. Or if you do ski this way the ski just sort of sits there. It's not a right or wrong thing, it's what you want out of a FIS SL ski. For reference watch Noel vs Pinterault. Both awesome SL skiers but with a very different turn shape and hence ski preference. It shouldn't come as a surprise that Noel's Dynastars are first cousins to the Rossi.
Right, I'm using them wrong then, thanks. The old Heads wanted/didn't mind that, and that's what I've become used to. The new Heads, I need to back off the tip quickly and ski almost side to side, less diagonally. The Rossis might be somewhere in between - i.e. I'm not losing the tail massively, but enough to screw the grip.
Yep, that's the thing. I have about one hole to play with before I run out of plate.
Thinking about it, there's always the risk that when watching something new, you graft it onto what you know rather than seeing it for what it is. Watching this season's WC SL, I THINK I've been seeing higher hips in the stance, more inclination, and despite the higher hips, the skis being allowed to shoot forward more towardsbthe end of the turn, with the hips behind the feet. Please correct me if I'm wrong. Or, even better, please describe this emergent technique as if I'd never seen a ski race, because I'm probably missing something.
Since your equipment is scattered around the world maybe we should wait until next season. A suggestion: move the toe forward to the last hole and try again.
I'm far from done with the season, I just meant to say I can't measure up the ski just now. But if I'm moving them forward, then they'll be in a similar position to my Heads, and then it's definitely a question of learning how to ski any newer SL rather than the Rossis per se.
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Interesting.
My experience free skiing it was it not only sits there, it tells you to gfu, “I’m staying in the fall line!”
One hole up greatly improved that attitude. I may go another. My shell is 27.5
Noel is 6’3”, and Pintu 5’11, so there’s that
I have always been a crappy SL skier, being far better at speed events. But with the endless blizzards this year and massive quantities of deep snow, we had no opportunities for speed training and all our Masters speed races were cancelled.
Our Masters Race season has now concluded and much to my surprise, I had my best SL performance in nearly 40 years during our final days of racing. The final SL was run on the same lovely practice hill used by athletes during the WC races conducted this season at the former Squaw Valley.
The surface was quite hard all morning and then softened in the afternoon after the sun did its natural thing. I took the opportunity to run my two favorite 165 FIS SL (both tuned 0.5/3) skis alternating back to back on the same course and learned a lot.
I again found the Blizzard FIS RD (identical to Nordica) with XComp 18 bindings to be an extremely powerful and stable ski with a tenacious grip on the snow, however it is very serious, with less tolerance for error—something that had to be managed as the snow softened and ruts formed.
The Dynastar (identical to Rossi) with SPX15 bindings was fun and easy, with a large sweet spot and tremendous rebound energy. It shrugged off little mistakes and was not bothered as the snow degenerated.
As noted previously, while not subjectively my favorite to ski, I actually objectively ski the best on Blizzard/Nordica--getting higher edge angles, better lines, faster times. Subjectively I prefer Dynastar/Rossi, as they are such a joy to ski--fun, energetic, and forgiving, yet I am not quite as fast on them—however that is all relative, as even at my best in SL, I am still slow!
Our Masters Race season has now concluded and much to my surprise, I had my best SL performance in nearly 40 years during our final days of racing. The final SL was run on the same lovely practice hill used by athletes during the WC races conducted this season at the former Squaw Valley.
The surface was quite hard all morning and then softened in the afternoon after the sun did its natural thing. I took the opportunity to run my two favorite 165 FIS SL (both tuned 0.5/3) skis alternating back to back on the same course and learned a lot.
I again found the Blizzard FIS RD (identical to Nordica) with XComp 18 bindings to be an extremely powerful and stable ski with a tenacious grip on the snow, however it is very serious, with less tolerance for error—something that had to be managed as the snow softened and ruts formed.
The Dynastar (identical to Rossi) with SPX15 bindings was fun and easy, with a large sweet spot and tremendous rebound energy. It shrugged off little mistakes and was not bothered as the snow degenerated.
As noted previously, while not subjectively my favorite to ski, I actually objectively ski the best on Blizzard/Nordica--getting higher edge angles, better lines, faster times. Subjectively I prefer Dynastar/Rossi, as they are such a joy to ski--fun, energetic, and forgiving, yet I am not quite as fast on them—however that is all relative, as even at my best in SL, I am still slow!
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