California/Nevada 23/24 Palisades Parking Plans

[Andy Mink]

Parking​

brightonresort.com

They don't say how far in advance you have to make a reservation. I'd be a bit annoyed if I was a season pass holder with parking privileges, called two days before I planned to ski, and found there are no more spots available. Suddenly my unlimited season pass just lost some unlimitedness. That may be far fetched but it could happen.

 

[dbostedo]

The last data I have seen is only 3% of Utahns skis.

It's surprisingly hard to find any data on that... According U of Utah, it was 10.1% back in 2006. Guessing the state has changed in 17 years, but that's all I can seem to find.

That said, it would take a lot of skiers moving away or the population more than tripling in those years to drive it as low as 3%. (And the Utah population since 2006 has only gone up by 30% or so.)

 

[Wasatchman]

It's surprisingly hard to find any data on that... According U of Utah, it was 10.1% back in 2006. Guessing the state has changed in 17 years, but that's all I can seem to find.

That said, it would take a lot of skiers moving away or the population more than tripling in those years to drive it as low as 3%. (And the Utah population since 2006 has only gone up by 30% or so.)

ULibraries Research Guides: Demographic Statistics from the U.S. Census and other sources: Ski Industry Demographics

A beginners guide to finding statistics about the U.S., Utah and the U.

campusguides.lib.utah.edu

 

[dbostedo]

ULibraries Research Guides: Demographic Statistics from the U.S. Census and other sources: Ski Industry Demographics

A beginners guide to finding statistics about the U.S., Utah and the U.

campusguides.lib.utah.edu

One of those is what I found that gave the 2006 10.1% number. (https://gardner.utah.edu/_documents/publications/econ-dev/pp-econ-impact-ski-industry.pdf)

But some of those more recent ones that might have an updated number, I don't have access to.

Nationwide, the total US population is about 3% skiers. Maybe that's what you're remembering? (And Utah would certainly tend to be higher than the US as a whole.)

 

[Wasatchman]

One of those is what I found that gave the 2006 10.1% number. (https://gardner.utah.edu/_documents/publications/econ-dev/pp-econ-impact-ski-industry.pdf)

But some of those more recent ones that might have an updated number, I don't have access to.

Nationwide, the total US population is about 3% skiers. Maybe that's what you're remembering? (And Utah would certainly tend to be higher than the US as a whole.)

You are right, the 3% I am remembering is percentage of skiers/snowboarders of the broader US population. I agree you would expect Utah to be a higher percentage of skiers than broader US population. Even if it is 10%, this is still a significant minority of the total local population. And regardless, the US Forest Service is a federally controlled entity. So I think whether skiers/snowboarders represent 3% or 10% of the total is ultimately a de minimis detail of the argument I was providing.

 

[Wasatchman]

They don't say how far in advance you have to make a reservation. I'd be a bit annoyed if I was a season pass holder with parking privileges, called two days before I planned to ski, and found there are no more spots available. Suddenly my unlimited season pass just lost some unlimitedness. That may be far fetched but it could happen.

The full details have not been communicated, but each pass holder gets a certain number of reservations, and then after a reservation is used pass holders are free to make another reservation.

I would think it is a sure bet if you are making parking reservations for a weekend only two days in advance, you are very likely not going to get a reservation. I assume the same is going to hold true for PT. It will definitely take an adjustment to be on your game making weekend parking reservations, or you will somehow need to use public transportation, be dropped off, etc to ski without a reservation.

I agree, it is a giant PITA. And I hate paying for parking. All I can tell you is a reservation system did really help out traffic congestion at Alta. If Solitude also goes to a reservation system then I sm highly confident this will help traffic a lot in BCC although you will still have traffic from people heading up seeking to park on the side of the road. The nice thing is reservations are free for Alta and Brighton pass holders. Alterra is not being as generous, which doesn't surprise me at all.

 

[Stev]

@Stev suggests the Solitude UT parking model ($35 or less if you carpool) It sucks. Please don’t do this one. People park a mile up & down the main road and walk in.

The only saving grace is they (or Alterra ? ) negotiated free rides on UTA ski busses if you scan your Ikon pass. Fortunately the BCC busses run often from big free lots. I don’t mind taking these busses past 3 or 4 years. LCC busses have gone to hell otoh. Route deleted & service cut way back. Not an option.

I am not suggesting the Solitude, UT parking model. I just suspect that PT might use something similar to what another Alterra resort does.

I see the PT situation as a lack of infrastructure combined without any reasonable planning and that has created problems. Adding greed to this is a disastrous recipe.

 

[Eric267]

This pretty much sums up my opinion on the situation. I don’t think I went out one Saturday or Sunday before noon this season so I’m not hugely affected by it but it just feels wrong to me. I also think this is just the beginning and fridays will creep in the next year with 7 days a week following in the next 5-10 years.

You want to go to a reservation system, fine, but just add $10 to the price of the 100,000 passes you sell in NorCal and come up with a “free” reservation system funded by that $1,000,000mil

Let’s say they charge $40 a day to park 15 weekends of the season + 7 holiday days for 5,000 cars (probably underestimate when all Squaw and alpine lots are full) that number is a pretty staggering……. $7,400,000!!

What does that accomplish beside lining the pockets of the corporation that created the problem by making money hand over fist in the first place?!

This just feels like one more thing to tack onto the list of things over the past few years that are making Tahoe a shittier place to call home, all in the name of the capitalistic $$$. If you follow Andy’s daily Squaw report I don’t think anyone’s put it into more sincere words!

 

[fatbob]

One thing I don't think I've seen commented on is the risk of creating extra noon time jams if parking becomes free at 1200. If you know your family are slow starters why not give up an hour or so and go for the late slot. Of course the solution to this would be keep pay longer.

 

[mikel]

Seems like parking is becoming a topic for a bunch of western resorts. Copper included. Will there ever be an all inclusive pass? I doubt it. Copper seems to be treating everything as separate passes ... and people are buying. Inside lots that cost $40-$45 this season sold out quickly. Look at the pics that @tball posted of cars parked all over the place. I think some involved a tow truck. The parking pass for 23/24 season was $700. I say was because it sold out in less than 3 weeks and it doesn't even include all of the lots. The ever popular Beeler lot is pay for every day. Even if you have a parking pass. Now what has traditionally been a free lot (Alpine) will potentially be a pay lot on tbd days. I'm guessing Sat. and holidays. Maybe Sun too? TBD so it could happen any day deemed busy? There will still be the Far East free lot. I believe there will be some expansion to the lot. No clue by how much but Copper will still have free parking. Thankfully Copper does have a good bus system to get people around. Seems like some don't care and have no issue with parking way out and getting on the bus. Others not so happy, money grab, etc. The latest buzz word " incentivized " is being used here in CO also.

Summertime parking for your favorite trail head and hiking in Summit Co is well covered by media outlets. Lot's of pay for that now too.

 

[tball]

I determined a couple years ago that I would probably only return when I can stay slopeside. Of course, those prices — already high —have skyrocketed.

I pulled this comment over from the LCC thread.

I meant to comment on the increasing value of staying slopeside generally. I know it's true at Copper Mountain. Sounds similar at Palisades—and no doubt in LCC and likely elsewhere.

Between the hassle of traffic and the cost of parking, staying or living down the road (Tahoe, Frisco, Sandy) is becoming less attractive each year.

Note how the big corporations win here too. From a micro econ perspective, by charging for parking, they increase the value and can charge more for slopeside lodging that they own or manage.

 

[skidrew]

Copper seems to be treating everything as separate passes ... and people are buying.

Not sure why most resorts should package the two (skiing and parking) together. For destination resorts, a lot of skiers may not need parking or will get it as part of lodging. For even locals, some may carpool/bus/whatever. So at best you'd have "add on" parking, but all that would be is a discount off of pay as you go.

 

[John Webb]

How does this work with people who just show up with no knowledge of the reservation/fee system? .. ..
I guess this is kind of like National Parks . .NP annual pass is $80, unlimited entrance to all parks and other agencies' facilities (over 2,000 areas!

NP pass was initially free for seniors. I drove into Assateague Natl Seashore , got one then immediately turned and left. Staying at nearby state park. Lifetime but not replaceable if lost. I was so worried about losing it I bought a second one for $10 just before it hiked to the current $80.

 

[tball]

There will still be the Far East free lot. I believe there will be some expansion to the lot. No clue by how much but Copper will still have free parking.

They are working on the (free) Far East lot expansion at Copper. These are from yesterday, before and after a run up the new rec path when I got a little wet.



It doesn't look like they can add a ton of parking over there as they are constrained by the highway and the creek:

 

[Pat AKA mustski]

I can’t help wondering about the fallout down the road a bit. Avid skiers will suck it up and pay it, but it may discourage new families from taking up the sport. We need Ikon because we live in two different locations and it works in both. Otherwise, I might start thinking of other options. We ski Mt. Rose more often than any where else because it’s so hassle free.

 

[John Webb]

I can’t help wondering about the fallout down the road a bit. Avid skiers will suck it up . . .Otherwise, I might start thinking of other options. We ski Mt. Rose more often than any where else because it’s so hassle free.

My Rose is annoying. I don’t ski there now. Even though the former owners were in their 90’s they don’t offer much of a senior discount. They tried to sell but couldn’t get their asking price so I think their kids took it over. Even their “2 for Tuesday” deal which used to be half price for your age group is now only 20 or 30 % off the full price regular adult day ticket. Bring back some decent midweek deal and I’ll ski there.

 

[crosscountry]

Thankfully Copper does have a good bus system to get people around. Seems like some don't care and have no issue with parking way out and getting on the bus.

Count me as one of those "no issue with parking way out and getting on the bus".

I hate walking through a giant parking lot. So it's either get there real early to park up close. Or get there real early to allow time to ride the bus. I don't see one any better than the other.

 

[MarkG]

Count me as one of those "no issue with parking way out and getting on the bus".

I'm good with that too, PROVIDED that the bus comes at a regular cadence. Spent many an hour standing around the Hidden Lot with 0 busses and 0 communication as to why/ETA

 

[crosscountry]

Count me as one of those "no issue with parking way out and getting on the bus".

either get there real early to park up close, or...

I'm good with that too, PROVIDED that the bus comes at a regular cadence. Spent many an hour standing around the Hidden Lot with 0 busses and 0 communication as to why/ETA

If there's no bus, it's time to fight for (or pay for) close up parking

 

[DocGKR]

When having to juggle multiple skis for different race events, as well as some for post-training recreational skiing, parking relatively close, with no bus ride, becomes more critical....