A little help deciding between two sizes of boot...

[CS2-6]

Looking to move from my old Salomon Impact 8s into a cabrio boot. I went to Larry's and they said my foot would work in a Full Tilt (soul shell), but they were all out. They measured me at "just almost a 28 and almost a D" with a flared forefoot, medium volume, normal arch, normal instep, normal heel, and normal ankle shape. They recommended 27.5 in most boot brands, but added that there was a possibility I'd be happier in a 28.5. Kinda sounded like I'm in between sizes.

But I found a pair of Tom Wallisch Pro in 27.5 and another in 28.5, ordered them both, and intend to return one. I carefully measured my feet (weighted, ski socks) and they are 10.57" long, 4.13" wide, and ~10.75" over the instep from one side of the heel to the other. I tried to shell size both of these by myself with ski socks on and my best estimation is that I've got roughly 18mm space in the 27.5, and 26mm in the 28.5. With the liners on, I'm not really smashed up against the front of the boot in either, but the 27.5 feel tight with my toes all crammed together and I can barely wiggle them. First time I tried to put the 27.5 on I said "nuh uh, no way" and gave up. Had to work myself up for a second try. But, I did wear them for about 45 minutes and nothing went numb. The 28.5 feel snug, but with more toe room. But I know, a lot of this will change with molding and packing out of the liner. My current boot is a 2008 Salomon Impact 8 in 27.5. I've gotten them fitted and was told they're the right size, but sometimes they still feel a little big, especially in the heel.

Any recommendations on which set to keep and which to return? I don't know if it matters, but I ski moguls almost exclusively (focusing on absorption and extension), don't get into powder very often, and I never spend any time railing groomers or trying to break the sound barrier. I'm not looking for internet bootfitting (ok well maybe just a little bit of e-bootfitting), just some friendly advice on which size would suit me best. I can attach some pictures of my feet if that would help. There are absolutely zero bootfitters near me.

 

[ScottB]

The fit on all boots gets looser over time as the liner packs out. Plastic can be made bigger, and almost never smaller. This tells me something: "With the liners on, I'm not really smashed up against the front of the boot in either, but the 27.5 feel tight with my toes all crammed together and I can barely wiggle them. " IF the new boots are heat moldable, then the 27.5 is your boot. For you I recommend stay in the 27.5 boot and heat expand the plastic shell with toe caps on. I had to do that in a pair Atomic Hawk Ultra XTD boots and it worked very well. When sizing for a different pair of new boots, my toes were smashed up against the front and crushed from the side. I went up one size to match my old boots, and I don't regret it. My new boots are narrower so I still gained on snugness.

 

[Ivan]

Well, I'm not a boot fitter, but I've struggled for a long time with finding the correct size for my ski boots. I acknowledge that different feet are different, but even 18mm is a very generous shell fit. 26mm sounds way, way too big to me. @CS2-6 may I wonder if you are sure you are buckling the boots properly, making sure your heel is all the way in the back of the boot?

My feet are 278mm (10.94") long, and I'm in size 26.5 boots. I have about 7-8mm of space when I try the shells on without the liners, and I didn't need any job done as far as the fit is concerned lengthwise. Maybe your liners are thicker, but again, 18mm is a lot more than 8mm, so it should be more than enough in most cases I believe.

 

[CS2-6]

The fit on all boots gets looser over time as the liner packs out. Plastic can be made bigger, and almost never smaller. This tells me something: "With the liners on, I'm not really smashed up against the front of the boot in either, but the 27.5 feel tight with my toes all crammed together and I can barely wiggle them. " IF the new boots are heat moldable, then the 27.5 is your boot. For you I recommend stay in the 27.5 boot and heat expand the plastic shell with toe caps on. I had to do that in a pair Atomic Hawk Ultra XTD boots and it worked very well. When sizing for a different pair of new boots, my toes were smashed up against the front and crushed from the side. I went up one size to match my old boots, and I don't regret it. My new boots are narrower so I still gained on snugness.

That makes a lot of sense, thanks @ScottB. They are heat moldable and the the liners are the power wrap intuition pro liners, so they'll need to be baked as well. I'll remember the toe cap.

 

[CS2-6]

Well, I'm not a boot fitter, but I've struggled for a long time with finding the correct size for my ski boots. I acknowledge that different feet are different, but even 18mm is a very generous shell fit. 26mm sounds way, way too big to me. @CS2-6 may I wonder if you are sure you are buckling the boots properly, making sure your heel is all the way in the back of the boot?

My feet are 278mm (10.94") long, and I'm in size 26.5 boots. I have about 7-8mm of space when I try the shells on without the liners, and I didn't need any job done as far as the fit is concerned lengthwise. Maybe your liners are thicker, but again, 18mm is a lot more than 8mm, so it should be more than enough in most cases I believe.

@Ivan I believe I'm buckling the boots right, cabrio are still very new to me. But I sit down, put my foot in, bang the heel against the floor once or twice to make sure the heel is all the way back, bring the tongue down, buckle the middle buckle, then the top, stand up and flex them a few times, then buckle the bottom buckle and take up slack from all the the buckles.

Hmm. 18 is a lot more than 8mm.

I'm somewhat confident in my shell fitting. I put on my ski sock, put my foot in the boot, slid my front until I touched the front of the inside of the boot with my toe, and took a piece of thin, rigid cardboard and cut slivers off it until it would slide between my heel and the back of the inside of the boot. Did that a couple times for an average. I'm very confident in the measurements of my actual foot though.

But my take away from the replies so far is that 27.5 is definitely not too small.

 

[Wilhelmson]

The boot guys would put you in the 27.5 and do what work is nessesary to make them fit. So, since you aren’t a boot fitter, go with the 28.5. It’s really a crap shoot unless you really know about the boot and what you are doing.

 

[princo]

I have Full Tilts on a different shell (Evolution), but as a reference I can get my 11" feet on the 318 BSL boot without any major modifications (28.5 Mondo, same BSL as the Soul shell). I think your feet (268mm) will be swimming on the 318 BSL.

 

[coskigirl]

The boot guys would put you in the 27.5 and do what work is nessesary to make them fit. So, since you aren’t a boot fitter, go with the 28.5. It’s really a crap shoot unless you really know about the boot and what you are doing.

Or do the 27.5 and have the bootfitter do the work.

 

[Ivan]

@Ivan I believe I'm buckling the boots right, cabrio are still very new to me. But I sit down, put my foot in, bang the heel against the floor once or twice to make sure the heel is all the way back, bring the tongue down, buckle the middle buckle, then the top, stand up and flex them a few times, then buckle the bottom buckle and take up slack from all the the buckles.

Hmm. 18 is a lot more than 8mm.

I'm somewhat confident in my shell fitting. I put on my ski sock, put my foot in the boot, slid my front until I touched the front of the inside of the boot with my toe, and took a piece of thin, rigid cardboard and cut slivers off it until it would slide between my heel and the back of the inside of the boot. Did that a couple times for an average. I'm very confident in the measurements of my actual foot though.

But my take away from the replies so far is that 27.5 is definitely not too small.

It sounds like what you are doing is perfectly reasonable. I would say 27.5 should not be too small. There are various references online on shell fit (e.g. this one, or this, or this). While there may be slight differences between them, most of them agree that 26mm is on the larger side of the spectrum (either too large, or acceptable for beginners only), while 18 mm should be fine.

I don't know if they've seen this thread, but I'm paging @Philpug, @Tricia, @Noodler, and @otto. I believe they all have tons of experience with ski boots, so hopefully they might be able to give you some useful advice.

 

[Philpug]

I don't know if they've seen this thread, but I'm paging @Philpug, @Tricia, @Noodler, and @otto. I believe they all have tons of experience with ski boots, so hopefully they might be able to give you some useful advice.

He is already buying both boots, go back the fitter with both pair, and pay him for his time to fit the best one for his foot. It might cost an exta $100-150 but it will be money well spent.

 

[Ivan]

He is already buying both boots, go back the fitter with both pair, and pay him for his time to fit the best one for his foot. It might cost an exta $100-150 but it will be money well spent.

I absolutely agree that going to the fitter would be the best thing possible. The issue is this:

There are absolutely zero bootfitters near me.

So I'm not sure if the OP was going to see a fitter.

 

[Philpug]

I absolutely agree that going to the fitter would be the best thing possible. The issue is this:

So I'm not sure if the OP was going to see a fitter.

What about "Larry's"

I went to Larry's and they said my foot would work in a Full Tilt (soul shell), but they were all out.

 

[Wilhelmson]

Or do the 27.5 and have the bootfitter do the work.

Yes. First op mentioned Larry’s whatever that is, but then states that there are no boot fitters near him (or her just guessing with the size 28 boot).

 

[James]

26mm in the 28.5.

That’s a lot, but also oddly precise.
If you ski 3 days a year, you could probably get 5 yrs out of them. Then push it to six or seven. But then they’ll never be good from the start.

The upshot is anyone capable of staying awake through the foot measurements, (I am not), is not going to fit you over the internet.

 

[coskigirl]

Yes. First op mentioned Larry’s whatever that is, but then states that there are no boot fitters near him (or her just guessing with the size 28 boot).

Larry's is a very well regarded bootfitter in Boulder, Colorado. I missed the comment about no bootfitters nearby but if the OP can get to Larry's having them do a fitting on boots bought elsewhere would still be a possibility, especially given the fact that they did the initial measurement and gave direction on what to buy elsewhere. They might charge for it but well worth it. Looking back at the OP's other posts it looks like they travel to ski quite a bit so finding a fitter to do work on the next trip is also an option.

 

[Andy Mink]

One thing to try is put the 27.5 on and step into the bindings and THEN flex the boot. You might find your toes pull away from the front of the boot and your heel sits further into the heel pocket than just banging the heel of the boot on the floor and flexing with no support. When I put my boots on my toes are touching, not hard but definitely into the front of the liner. A few flexes while on the ski where I can drive it a bit harder and everything moves back a touch. I mean maybe a couple of mm but enough to feel the difference.

 

[CS2-6]

Thanks @Ivan.

I think your feet (268mm) will be swimming on the 318 BSL.

Thanks for your experience in FT. I've heard they "run small", but I'm mostly convinced this is just internet rumor and individual perception. Although I did try to measure the internal length of the FT 27.5 and my Salomon 27.5, and I found that the FT is about 6mm smaller at the same Mondo. But regardless, I'm definitely not interested in swimming through my turns.

go back the fitter...money well spent.

OP was going to see a fitter.

no boot fitters near him

travel to ski quite a bit so finding a fitter to do work on the next trip is also an option.

COSkiGirl nailed it. Last ski trip I was in Boulder and stopped in at Larry's. And I intend on taking whichever boot I decide on to them to get them fully fitted this Fall during another ski trip (as long as they're cool with me not buying the boots from them in the first place). If there are any fitters near me, I wouldn't trust any of them. I ordered both the 27.5 and the 28.5 to try them both on and pick the one that's my size. I thought I'd be better able to tell which one is my size, but I wasn't, so I came here for a little help. I'd take them both to Larry's, but this will be long after the deadline to return has passed.

Thanks Andy, I'll try this tonight and see how it feels.

One thing to try is put the 27.5 on and step into the bindings and THEN flex the boot.

 

[princo]

long after the deadline to return has passed.

A few extra points that could help you. Evo.com has a 365 day return policy and backcountry.com has an "anytime" return policy for unused gear. Check to see if they still have what you are looking for in stock. When buying Full Tilts, be mindful of the liner that comes with the boot. Not all Intuition liners are created equal. The Full Tilt "Performer" liner is very lightweight but not very durable. Unless you are going to spin the skis in the air, go with a boot with the ProWrap or the ProTongue (I prefer wrap liners with cabrio boots, but that's a personal preference).

 

[David]

Are you fitting them with a custom molded insole?

 

[Zirbl]

Thanks for your experience in FT. I've heard they "run small", but I'm mostly convinced this is just internet rumor and individual perception

If it helps, my bootfitter advised me the FT are shorter than a Lange. I have a 30.5 Lange RS 130 and for an FT Classic he fitted me a 31.5. Both boots have toe punches and after the work, the Classic still feels shorter than the Lange. Slightly too short even, whereas the Lange with the lower Mondopoint is bob on (even with the same liner).