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Comparison Review A Tale of Two Stöcklis

Tony S

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I got a good dose of Stöckli miles in during my "Covid Consolation" week at Squaw last month (first week in May). Thought it might be worthwhile to share. I'm tagging @Wendy here because she was interested in my summary. Skied with lots of great Pugs along the way.

All in all I spent six days on a pair of women's 2018-19* SR 85 Motions @168cm. I had purchased these NOS at deep discount from @SkiEssentials earlier in the spring. Prior to the trip I had about three days on them in Maine.

I also spent a full day on a pair of NOS 2019-20 Laser AXs, also @168cm. These were a generous loaner from @KingGrump. (Thank you!!!) They only had one day on them when I took them out.

FWIW I'm 58, 140, 5' 7", east coaster.

The Motion 85s are mounted on the line with current-model Griffons. The AXs had the Marker X-Cell something-or-other. I think they must have been the 16s, because KG gave me crap about whether they would go all the way down to my DIN setting.

Before my trip I'd been on the 85s for a few days at Saddleback. I was loving them in soft spring conditions off piste, but in arc-to-arc turns on hardpack we were not really getting along. Specifically the forebody of the ski was a little unsteady, doing the catch-and-release thing. I reset the side edge to a consistent 3* bevel with the Toko electric home tuner. This was an improvement, but I still wasn't really happy. Eventually I took them to the excellent folks in the shop at Sport Thoma in Bethel, Maine for a full flattening and reset of the base edge to 1*. I skied on this setup for the first time in California.

Cutting to the chase, the SR 85 Motions are a really nice ski. I'm happy I got them.

In brushed turns on any kind of snow they provide a very gradual, round introduction to the turn, which encourages confidence and good technique. On hard snow they give good feedback about the slickness (or not) of the surface while never feeling harsh or glassy. In snow of any depth at all the platform feels really solid. The tip does not have a ton of rise or taper to it, but it bends easily and never grabs unexpectedly. This description extends in spades to their behavior in corn and slush, where they're a joy. They don't get pushed around, but they also don't push back inordinately on the skier.

Getting into bumps, the tip, moderate in all ways, again pays off with cushioning and compliance. The tail is much stiffer and has only a tiny bit of taper and turn-up. It will smack you if you are in the back seat. Personally I did not find this to be a problem except in the very deepest troughs in challenging east coast bumps one day at Sugarloaf. Even then I am okay with saying, "It's on you, bub."

Carved arc-to-arc turns on this ski are not quite as rewarding. The middle and rear of the ski are solid as a rock. After the full re-tune the shovels were much more predictable than previously. This won't be a surprise to anyone who has been paying attention to the many reports here of factory tunes that leave something to be desired. (It's too bad because the initial structure and edge work looked great.) Even so they are just that little bit vague and unsettled-feeling. The firmer the snow, the more true this seems to be. I have no trouble accepting this as a tradeoff on a day when I'm going to be skiing shallow or packed out ungroomed snow.

It's probably worth contrasting these with my other mid-80s skis, the Elan Wingman 82 CTi. Simply, the Elans love to carve and are much less friendly in bumps and thick snow. The Stöcklis are clearly built for the off-piste or at least the soft-piste. On a groomer-only day I would pick the Wingman every time. If I'm headed off on a western day in unfamiliar terrain, the SR 85. It's kind of amazing, actually, how different they are. Would I like a Wingman with the silky snow feel of the Stöckli? Hell yeah. Would I pay full boat for that? No. I WOULD, out of curiosity, like to try the unisex version of the Motion - the SR 88 - just to see what the difference is.


My one day on the Laser AX was not an epihany. Maybe I would be more enamored of the 161cm length. Maybe I would like them better on a firmer day. Maybe they needed a better tune. Dunno.

My first run of the day was on a firm-ish groomer where I just skiied edge-locked shortish GS turns. They were very nice and easy to adjust to. For sure steadier in the shovel than the SRs, and quicker in transition. That said, the AX is no slalom-esque ricochet rabbit.

Once I got onto softer snow and steeper terrain I had a hard time for a couple of runs. I just could not get the tips to engage at shallower angles. In fact I almost bit it on my very first turn because the ski just headed straight down the hill when I expected it to turn. Eventually I figured it out, but ... sheesh. My hypothesis is that there was too much base bevel. In arced turns it wasn't an issue because of the higher angles, but in brushed turns it took an inordinate amount of tipping to get any traction.

Oh wait! This ski still has the factory tune! Hmmmmmmmmmm. Damn.

In bumps the AX was markedly less forgiving than the SR 95. It wasn't bad, but it didn't do anything for me. Maybe I would appreciate it more if the bumps were firmer rather than May-in-California corn bumps. I suspect I would like the 161 better in moguls, if not everywhere.

In defense of the Laser AX, other people in my group insisted I was skiing well on it. Maybe it was because the ski allowed less laziness. I'm not skiing to make those jamokes happy, though!


* They may be the 2019-20 model. Not sure. I think they are identical. Presumably the arrival of the Nela in the 20-21 season put them on the closeout rack and thence onto the SERIOUS closeout rack at the end of the season.

(photo courtesy of mdf)

20210507_133141(0).jpg
 
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Wendy

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@Tony,
The factory tune on my AX’s sucked. I had to get them reground and with less aggressive edge bevels. I also moved my bindings forward 2 clicks; that made turn initiation much easier.

Blossom Whiteouts, OTOH, were easy as pie from the get-go. They feel a little quicker, too. I’m looking forward to getting much more time on them this coming season.
 

KingGrump

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I had to get them reground and with less aggressive edge bevels.

Factory side edge is supposed to be 2°. That was too aggressive?
 

Wendy

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Factory side edge is supposed to be 2°. That was too aggressive?
Well, no, that shouldn’t be. Oh, I dunno. :rolleyes: It had a weird factory tune with concave bases. The tips felt heavy and it was difficult to brush any turns or drift…so maybe it was just the bases. What was the factory tune on them? (Base angle).

I should just keep my nose out of any comments on tuning. :rolleyes:
 

ScottB

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@Wendy, what you felt is pretty common on a Stockli AX, and its due to the 1.4 deg (I think that is the number) base bevel, not edge bevel. You have the ski performance right, just the wrong bevel. Same issue Tony is describing as well. I had the exact same experience, along with the 2 or 3 previous owners of my Laser Ax's. The cure, if you want some "tuning" advice, is 1 deg or less base bevel and 2 or 3 deg side bevel. I like 3 deg side, but the Ax's have very good edge grip, so 2 deg from factory is perfectly good as well. The second thing that is critical for the factory tune, is extending the base and edge bevels past the contact point of the ski. An inch or two past is enough, but the factory tune on my skis was short of the contact point by about 2". That was the critical factor or fix to make the tip engage and not feel heavy. They don't have the quickest tip hook up, but with the factory tune is was not existent and the tips were just dead weight along for the ride. Then there's the mount point, the factory line seems to set so you can ski mach snell and they stay smooth as silk. Moving them forward 1-4cm really improves the tip hook up and shortens the turn radius. Its a ski that takes some sorting out if you want to ski it at a high performance level. It does seem to be worth the effort in my opinion. I personally feel the factory is setting them up for the "well to do crowd" who can't really ski. Didn't I see a picture of Trump or his daughter's family skiing and they were all on Stockli's???

@Tony, I personally think they get worse on a firmer day with the factory tune. Its interesting your perspective on bump performance of the Ax's. I think I agree with you exactly if you compare them to an all mtn ski. If you compare them to a stiff race ski, then I think they are pretty good in bumps due to their softer flex and non-aggressive tips and tails.

Anyway, thanks for the detailed post and I thought you were skiing the SR 85's really well at Saddleback this past season. Glad they are working even better for you now. Make sure the bevels are carried far enough forward and back, the stone grinding machines don't allows work well on the rockered parts of the ski and you have to do a little hand touch up (or a good shop will do it for you). One other comment, when I get that unsettling feeling in the tips, moving the binding back a click or .5-1 cm usually cures it. I weigh a lot, and too much weight on the tips causes that. You are much lighter, but you are on a women's ski and in appropriate scale, you could be considered a heffer. :ogbiggrin:

I just got a new pair of Faction CT 3.0's, which are supposed to be kind of a park twin tip. They came with a 0.75/3.0 sharp tune, just a little short on the rockered tips and tails where the base bevel went to zero . I am pretty impressed with the factory tune and don't have to send these to SKIMD right off the bat, I can just add a little bevel tip and tail. These won't ski like a park ski, they were made this past year in the Fischer plant and they are stiff as hell. The Park Rat's don't like this years ski, but I am betting I really will. I am hoping to channel my inner Candide Thorvex this season, keep and eye open for any Audi's with an open hatch back in the parking lot.
 
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Tony S

Tony S

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Its interesting your perspective on bump performance of the Ax's. I think I agree with you exactly if you compare them to an all mtn ski. If you compare them to a stiff race ski, then I think they are pretty good in bumps due to their softer flex and non-aggressive tips and tails.
Agree.

Some good points in your post. Thanks.
 

surfsnowgirl

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I have to say I've had 2 pairs of AX's in a 168 and they just didn't grab me. If I try again I'll go down a 161. I am however addicted in a major way to the SR series. I have a pair of 83s in a 166, 85 motions in a 167 and 100s in a 166. The 85 motions are my most of the time daily driver at Magic. I'm very impressed with their ice and hard pack handling ability. I have slalom skis really for those days but I don't even flinch on the 85s as they always have my back. They are even fun in soft snow. My 100s are my main spring snow ski. Buying a pair of SR 95s soon as my 100's will aging out in a year or two. The 85 motions are a hell of a ski. I know several people that have these skis. They are one few pairs of ladies skis that wind my watch.
 
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Tony S

Tony S

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Would it perhaps be more accurate to say that you don’t find them disagreeable?
For me to be a fan boy of something I need not only to be a fan but to feel like I'm needed as a fan. Saddleback needs me as an evangelist; Stöckli doesn't.
 

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