Advantages of AWD in snow?

[James]

Mfgs try to make cars feel "peppy" with abrupt throttle response. Meanwhile you can be waiting a long time for a gearshift when it runs out of steam at 4500rpm...

Then there’s throttle delay with today’s drive by wire electronic throttles.

 

[slowrider]

Before electronics when pu's had Granny gear & 2 speed rear ends with 2 ranges in the aux trans. You could almost hear the cylinders fire.

 

[Ogg]

Mfgs try to make cars feel "peppy" with abrupt throttle response. Meanwhile you can be waiting a long time for a gearshift when it runs out of steam at 4500rpm...

Then there’s throttle delay with today’s drive by wire electronic throttles.

The "performance" tune I had done on my Silverado has much quicker throttle response while, surprisingly, also making it much easier to modulate in slippery conditions. It also made the traction control far more effective and less intrusive.

 

[François Pugh]

Yeah and now you are braking for the crash in front of you; this is when you suddenly realize that you are going to stop in time but that RV or big highway hauler truck that you just past will need twice your stopping distance and will likely not stop in time.

Leave enough room in front of you for the guy behind you to stop.

 

[slowrider]

Leave enough room in front of you for the guy behind you to stop.

So you can see around corners.

 

[François Pugh]

So you can see around corners.

Only at night.

 

[sparty]

QFT.
That was especially true back in the sixties, My slant six Dodge felt like a Corvette for the first 30 feet from a traffic light. European cars were much more linear, and that made them a little easier to drive in snow. Modern cars are all so powerful that there's no need to juice the throttle response.

dm

Ford actually reduces throttle response on the Ecoboost-powered trucks to some degree. I'm not sure if that's primarily to protect the driver from his own stupidity, or if it's to protect the truck (there's a video of a tuned truck with the response not softened breaking a driveshaft trying to get off the line with a trailer behind it).

 

[snwbrdr]

By FWD, do you mean front wheel drive or four wheel drive?
Yeah, back in my crazy days I passed everything on the road, front wheel drive, rear-wheel drive, 4x4 what-ever. It takes a lot less time to get by with more drive wheels. It might be safer to just hang back though.

Front wheel drive. I meant Four wheel drive, then I would use the common 4WD abbreviation.

 

[snwbrdr]

It's all about throttle response. You want a car with a gradual, nmaybe even sluggish, response to your right foot. If the car is too owerful, it's too easy to spin the wheelss, even if you have soft feet. Low torqu horsepower and/or high gears work best.
Turbe doesn't matter anymore. Older turbos were lagging and could kick in at the wrong time. I had an early 80's Mitsubishi turbo that was easy to drive until you git just a little too deep into the pedal and the turbo spolled up. That was exciting.
OTOH we have a 2019 Accord turbo. There's no noticeable turbo lag, but first gear is so low that it's almost impossible to launch without wheelspin in slippery conditions, even if it's only rain. The only way to lock out first gear is to use sport mode, which makes it harder to modulate the throttle. That car really needs snow mode more than sport mode.

dm

you can't put it in manual mode and start from 2nd gear?

 

[François Pugh]

you can't put it in manual mode and start from 2nd gear?

I would hope you could; my '72 ford had that technology, but I guess you have to allow for progress.

 

[Dave Marshak]

you can't put it in manual mode and start from 2nd gear?

You can, but you need to be in “sport mode “ to do it. That’s not ideal for bad weather and it leaves you searching for buttons every time you start. It’s a totally unnecessary and distracting PITA. Forgetting to do it can make a short merge ramp on a rainy day more exciting than I want it to be.

dm

 

[Tom K.]

Most vehicles are designed for your mom and wife. Even high-performance vehicles are fairly well tamed for the hero crowd. Although there are a few truly evil (fun) cars still left...

So FCA is resuming production of the Viper?!

Then there’s throttle delay with today’s drive by wire electronic throttles.

Mostly gone today, but does anybody remember how atrocious the older Audi NA 3-liter V6 was. Just silly.

@Dave Marshak, to each their own I guess -- I'd never consider snow driving with an auto trans any way other than manual mode. The last thing I want in slippery conditions is an unwanted downshift. And it's just become second nature to use 2nd when pulling away from a stop, snowy or not. it's no more distracting than driving a stick shift car, without the need for the clutch pedal.

 

[DanoT]

So FCA is resuming production of the Viper?!

The Viper is not practical enough. FCA knows what America needs: A RAM 1500 TRX pickup with a 702hp, 650ft-lbs torque engine, grocery getter. 0-60mph in 3.7 seconds so you can make it home before the ice cream melts.

 

[Dave Marshak]

@Dave Marshak, to each their own I guess -- I'd never consider snow driving with an auto trans any way other than manual mode. The last thing I want in slippery conditions is an unwanted downshift. And it's just become second nature to use 2nd when pulling away from a stop, snowy or not. it's no more distracting than driving a stick shift car, without the need for the clutch pedal.

I agree with some of that, but tell it to the woman who has to drive it everyday. Sport mode in that car lets you control shifting, but it amps up throttle response so it's still not a n ideal solution. It would be better to have a snow mode that locks out first and keeps the car in a higher than normal gear.If you have soft feet, you never get an unexpected down shift. Better still would be to get rid of first gear altogether, which would maybe make the car a little sluggish or turbo lagged for a split second, but would eliminate rainy day wheels spin.

Three pedals are a negative distraction, it becomes second nature but it keeps your attention in the car., That's why I still have 2 of them.

dm

 

[raytseng]

I agree with some of that, but tell it to the woman who has to drive it everyday. Sport mode in that car lets you control shifting, but it amps up throttle response so it's still not a n ideal solution. It would be better to have a snow mode that locks out first and keeps the car in a higher than normal gear.If you have soft feet, you never get an unexpected down shift. Better still would be to get rid of first gear altogether, which would maybe make the car a little sluggish or turbo lagged for a split second, but would eliminate rainy day wheels spin.

Three pedals are a negative distraction, it becomes second nature but it keeps your attention in the car., That's why I still have 2 of them.

dm

Yea, I think the non-inclusion of a snow mode; was just a marketing decision to push you to buy an SUV as a "proper" all conditions vehicle. You picked a regular road sedan, so you only get a regular road sedan. It's common that manufacturers will rebucket features just for the sake of business and marketing rather than a practical or cost purpose.
Honda especially will still make and sell you a basic "base" vehicle. I don't think it's saves them anything material on cost; but more to to protect their profit of their more luxurious up-market offerings or packages.

If you picked a SUV with AWD; I think just about all of them, honda or otherwise, will then have snow-mode; just as a sake of that's what one expects for this segment offering.

 

[pchewn]

Don't discount also the ability to rapidly change from forward to reverse which helps rock the car out of a stuck parking space. My Kia Niro (FWD, electric hybrid) has a huge delay when shifting from D to R , making it nearly useless for rocking the car out of a space. Instead, I have to rock the car using only D or only R and modulate the accelerator pedal in synchronous harmony with the momentum of the car.

Oh how I wish I still had the manual clutch, manual stick of the last few cars I've owned. ('63 VW bug, '70 Toyota Corolla, '7? Honda CVCC 600, '82 Toyota Tercel, '92 Dodge Stealth, '03 VW Jetta Diesel, '05 VW Jetta Diesel)

 

[James]

If you picked a SUV with AWD; I think just about all of them, honda or otherwis, will then have snow-mode; just as a sake of that's what one expects for this segment offering.

Not Ford Escape. You get only get Sport and the ability to shift, plus turn traction control off.
As of the 2019 model. At least on that the traction cntrl turns off with a panel button. Older models required going into the software menu, from the steering wheel, taking attention off the road for much longer.

 

[raytseng]

Not Ford Escape. You get only get Sport and the ability to shift, plus turn traction control off.
As of the 2019 model. At least on that the traction cntrl turns off with a panel button. Older models required going into the software menu, from the steering wheel, taking attention off the road for much longer.

Just the longcon to push you to buy the 2020 model!

 

[François Pugh]

You can, but you need to be in “sport mode “ to do it. That’s not ideal for bad weather and it leaves you searching for buttons every time you start. It’s a totally unnecessary and distracting PITA. Forgetting to do it can make a short merge ramp on a rainy day more exciting than I want it to be.

dm

LOL, you'll have to take it to a good tuner and have him reprogram it. Tell him you want a sport mode with less torque and earlier shifting. That ought to raise an eyebrow or two.

 

[slowrider]

My last manual was a