Advantages of AWD in snow?

[Atomicman]

You do realize, Formula 1 cars don't have ABS brakes, right?

Remember, ABS is pulsing the brakes, during the periods of the ABS not on the brakes, that allows you to steer in accordance to the traction circle.

WRC rally cars have ABS brakes though. and in addition to Tarmac surfaces, they also drive on loose and slippery surfaces.

Yes , but they don't have them because they are F1 banned ABS, forcing drivers to use their skills. I'm sure they would use ABS if allowed. So they are not used becuase of under performance, actually just the opposite, makes it easier . Banned in 1994, allowed previously: " ABS has been banned in F1 since 1994 for the sole reason of making drivers rely on more on skill rather than technology.

 

[François Pugh]

You do realize, Formula 1 cars don't have ABS brakes, right?

Remember, ABS is pulsing the brakes, during the periods of the ABS not on the brakes, that allows you to steer in accordance to the traction circle.

WRC rally cars have ABS brakes though. and in addition to Tarmac surfaces, they also drive on loose and slippery surfaces.

You do realize that the traction circle still applies, even where ABS is not banned? You can't have maximum turning force when you have ANY braking force. The brakes can pulse as many times as you like in a second, but the steering angle of the wheels doesn't change that quickly.

 

[scott43]

You do realize that the traction circle still applies, even where ABS is not banned? You can't have maximum turning force when you have ANY braking force. The brakes can pulse as many times as you like in a second, but the steering angle of the wheels doesn't change that quickly.

But you can have traction available for cornering during those pulses as opposed to trying to turn on saucer sleds. Traction control is banned for the same reason. And for the average door knob driving their Corolla the ABS will provide a lot more cornering traction than they could manage with no assistance.

 

[scott43]

Yes , but they don't have them because they are F1 banned ABS, forcing drivers to use their skills. I'm sure they would use ABS if allowed. So they are not used becuase of under performance, actually just the opposite, makes it easier . Banned in 1994, allowed previously: " ABS has been banned in F1 since 1994 for the sole reason of making drivers rely on more on skill rather than technology.

That was the time in F1 when the electronics were getting out of hand. Active suspension, traction control, two way telemetry. There were rumours that the driver wasn't even needed anymore to get the car around the track. They started making those decisions to start keeping the driver skill relevant. A good move obviously..

 

[Philpug]

ABS has been banned in F1 since 1994 for the sole reason of making drivers rely on more on skill rather than technology.

Explain DSG transmissions then.

 

[François Pugh]

Believe what you like. If you end up playing deer slalom with a heard of deer, good luck. Getting a car around a track is just as much about threshold braking into the corner as anything else.

 

[Tom K.]

I agree with some of that, but tell it to the woman who has to drive it everyday. Sport mode in that car lets you control shifting, but it amps up throttle response so it's still not a n ideal solution. It would be better to have a snow mode that locks out first and keeps the car in a higher than normal gear.If you have soft feet, you never get an unexpected down shift. Better still would be to get rid of first gear altogether, which would maybe make the car a little sluggish or turbo lagged for a split second, but would eliminate rainy day wheels spin.

All true. My wife wants nothing to do with Sport Mode (except when hauling her trailer with an automatic).

Removing first gear from my XC60, as well as getting rid of the amped up throttle response would please me greatly.

And why did Volvo get rid of snow mode? It was in all the old classic wagons IIRC?!

 

[scott43]

And why did Volvo get rid of snow mode? It was in all the old classic wagons IIRC?!

Used to be a practical Scandinavian car company...

 

[cantunamunch]

Used to be a practical Scandinavian car company...

They couldn't get millenial moms to sign the right-lane-at-speed-limit contract

That's OK, though. We have 3-row turbo XUVs taking that niche. Mazda CX-9 anyone?

 

[DanoT]

I used to have a '06 Volvo XC70 that had a "W" button that I think did the equivalent of putting the transmission in 2rd gear. It also had a manual shifting mode for the auto trans. The big problem was the AWD default was 90% fwd-10% rwd with the computer deciding when to shift more power to the rear wheels. When my 350' driveway turned to ice after a rain/freeze or when it was soft mud in spring, tire chains were required. That Volvo was great on snowy pavement but not so great off highway.

I now have a '19 Toyota TRD 4X4 Off Road, Access Cab, Manual Transmission, with rear locker and A-Trac. This truck eats up my driveway even with stock tires.

 

[cantunamunch]

Different question, but any thoughts on the effect of higher torque in snow/ice conditions? Positive or negative attribute? Planning to buy an AWD with a turbo charged engine that produces over 300 lb-ft of torque. I grew up driving in snow so I understand the basics (i.e., importance of tires, abs, AWD doesn't help you stop, etc.) but am not sure how the higher levels of torque will affect handling on snow/ice.

 

[scott43]

Used to be a practical Scandinavian car company...

 

[cantunamunch]

^I blame 2005. 2005 was the year every car company on the planet got CFD software.

And promptly re-raked all cars and hid the rear door knob in the aero wake of the side mirror.

 

[slowrider]

I miss the 3 on the tree.

 

[Ogg]

I miss the 3 on the tree.

One of my friends got a job for the phone company pretty much right out of HS. He got a brand new truck because nobody else wanted to/could drive a manual with a column shifter.

 

[slowrider]

One of my friends got a job for the phone company pretty much right out of HS. He got a brand new truck because nobody else wanted to/could drive a manual with a column shifter.

First car I ever drove was a 4 sp on the column.

 

[Atomicman]

Explain DSG transmissions then.

I didn't say I agree with it or that the rules are consistent. I didn't make the damn rule! I am just telling you what F1's thinking was. DSG still takes being in the right gear at the right time. My ML63 AMG has MB's Speedshift 7G-tronic and you know I drove an S4 for many years, so I have a ton of wheel time with DSG's.......

And you do know MB has adjustable toe on the fly. So that would seem to fly in the face of the driver skill being at the forefront.

 

[scott43]

I didn't say I agree with it or that the rules are consistent. I didn't make the damn rule! I am just telling you what F1's thinking was. DSG still takes being in the right gear at the right time. My ML63 AMG has MB's Speedshift 7G-tronic and you know I drove an S4 for many years, so I have a ton of wheel time with DSG's.......

And you do know MB has adjustable toe on the fly. So that would seem to fly in the face of the driver skill being at the forefront.

They banned the toe change. It was a novel approach but it was contrary to the spirit of the rules an subsequently banned it.

I don't see DSG as a driver assist..it's really not. It DOES increase performance in the sense that shift-times are...well..non-existent. Is there something to be said for rowing a gearbox? I dunno..maybe.. But dog-boxes mean the clutch isn't used anyway in shifting..sequential shift and just bang through the gears. Do we go back to old-school manual boxes? I dunno..I don't particularly like driving DSG and other "auto" boxes..I like the clutch in the process of driving. But..driver assist..I don't see that so much.

 

[cantunamunch]

I dunno..I don't particularly like driving DSG and other "auto" boxes..

I just want to see your reaction in a new all-push-button Honda/Acura

 

[scott43]

I just want to see your reaction in a new all-push-button Honda/Acura

Just put a bullet in me! End the misery!!