Advice on GS Master skis very appreciated!

[stefano001]

Hi all!

New forum joiner here.

I am updating my outdated racing gear and could really do with some advice

I am 30 y/o, 150 lbs, though I can go up to 160lbs during winter gym bulking season. 171 cm high. Ex junior racer.
I currently own some ancient 2006 Rossignol 9X WC 175cm, 21m radius (I believe are FIS) which are still great fun, but I'll be moving to Switzerland soon and plan to ski a lot, so want to upgrade my kit.

I won't be racing for now, just giving my all in every turn on the slopes. What I love most are long, hip on the ground GS turns with initiation above the fall line

Based on my research the Dynastar Speed Masters 185, r23 seem like a good option, but would really appreciate any feedback and suggestions.

Thanks so much all!
S

 

[Philpug]

Paging @ScotsSkier to the SkiTalk Courtesy Phone

 

[ScotsSkier]

I'm not a big fan of the Rossi/Dynastar Masters ski. The problem most of my athletes have found with it is that the wider waist compared to a proper GS ski (71/72 v. 66) is that it makes it slower respond and in edge to edge. We have seen the same thing with the Atomic redster 183 RS which is their masters ski version. And the extra width does not really make any extra value as an all-mountain ski

A couple of thoughts. For a Masters GS ski that still skis like a proper GS ski as you have outlined, take a look at the Augment Pro GS in 185 which is a an excellent GS ski just detuned a little from their full FIS GS ski (which is IMHO the best FIS GS I have been on) and is built to exactly the same standards as their full race skis. When I tested it Iwas blown away by the performance, a little less instant on like the FIS ski but for most people not in gates will have a wider performance envelope as well as working in gates .

Alternatively I would suggest instead you take a look at some of the 183/184 FIS GS skis (which are not WC FIS but the U16 versions) since you are OK weight wise for them. Some suggestions

Blizzard/Nordica 184/25
Atomic Redster GS 186/26
Rossi/Dynaster 185/27
Head 186/25

(Note: I am going from memory here so soem of these may have slightly changed length/Radius bi=ut they are all in the same ballpark )

 

[DocGKR]

Definitely pay attention to what ScotsSkier wrote above.

Look for GS skis in the 65mm waist width and not the 68-70mm waist width of the more recreationally focused ones. As I get back into Masters Racing, I've had a chance to try several of the 65mm wide non-FIS GS skis:

I found the Rossi/Dynastar 185/27m to be quick and easy turning with superb rebound energy that launches me into the next turn, but without being harsh or demanding.

The Atomic 187/26m offered easy turn initiation and a large sweet spot that is tolerant of my mistakes--allowing quick recovery instead of launching me off course, along with a smooth supple ride.

The Nordica/Blizzard 188/27m demanded good technique to work well, but are balanced, powerful, and solid in turns, with spectacular stability at speed. Think of the Augments as a product improved version of these skis...

The Head 186/25m required a bit more effort to initiate the turn, but once on edge they are solidly locked to the snow like a Bullet train riding rails. They offered a taught ride and are a bit less tolerant of any errors, but they are extremely powerful and stable, with no discernible speed limit.

The Stockli 184/25.5m became more responsive with the bindings moved forward a cm or so. They offered a smooth ride, easily blasting through hard ruts and ripples with aplomb. They are not quite as inviting as the Atomics, energetic as the Rossi/Dynastars, balanced as the Nordica/Blizzards, or as powerful as the Heads—instead they offer a classic, understated approach.

 

[bbbradley]

My only addition is to say if you're tempted to go full FIS GS, test drive 1st. I have a pair of Rossi 30m, they are a demanding ski that rewards good technique but punishes mistakes. Day one on them felt like relearning to ski.

I love what they can do when I do it right, but they require focus! I also have you by 35 lbs.

 

[DocGKR]

At this stage of my resurgent racing development, the full FIS 30m GS skis are interesting!

Given how much I like the Rossi/Dynastar 185/27m, it seemed weird that I didn't care for the 188/30m as it felt a bit vague; conversely I loved the Rossi/Dynastar 193/30m!

The previous Atomic 188/30m Servotec was quite nice; have not tried the new RevoShock model yet, but hope to do so this coming season.

The Nordica/Blizzard 188/30m was extremely solid and capable--I have a new pair of the Blizzard FIS RD 188/30's to play with this Fall.

I actually liked the Head 188/30m more than their 186/25m, but ultimately preferred both the Nordica/Blizzard and Atomic 188/30's.

FWIW, the next 188/30m ski I purchase with be the Augments!

 

[bbbradley]

At this stage of my resurgent racing development, the full FIS 30m GS skis are interesting!

FWIW, the next 188/30m ski I purchase with be the Augments!

I really wish I could have tried the u16 skis to see if I would have been better off with them, but the Rossi deal was a good one. I need more time in gates to practice vs race days.

 

[DocGKR]

I suspect it is OK to have both a 30m FIS GS ski and a tighter radius Juniors/Masters GS ski, as they seem complement one another depending on course set, snow conditions, body strength/conditioning, accumulated injuries, and amount of practice in the season. I notice as my season progresses, I am much better able to handle the stronger, longer radius 30m skis that at the start of the season--at least until I get injured...

 

[oldschoolskier]

Full on FIS skis are the cats meow. They reward as they punish. Good for good, bad for bad.

BTW take @ScotsSkier recommendations as the gospel, it is un-bias as you can get in all senses of the meaning.

 

[bbbradley]

Full on FIS skis are the cats meow. They reward as they punish. Good for good, bad for bad.

I feel like FIS GS (188/30m) skis are more punishing for mistakes than FIS SL (158, 165/12m) skis. I will revisit this once I get onto my brand new FIS SL skis this coming winter.

 

[stefano001]

Hi everyone,

Apologies for the radio silence, it’s been manic at work, and I’ve been using every minute I have free to research the skis that were suggested on the thread.

@ScotsSkier

@DocGKR

@bbbradley

Thank you so much for your amazing advice. After diligent research I have boiled my choices down to two;
The Atomic Redster G9 FIS (U16) Season 20/21 187cm - radius 26m for euros 399.95, and the Nordica dobermann GS Race Plate FIS (U16) Season 20/21 at 188cm - radius => 25m for 349.95 euros (which I very much prefer).

I would be extremely grateful if you could give me your final two cents on which to go for.

The Augments do look incredible, I just feel I need to get my form back so I can really make the most of such a ski.

If I did go for the Nordica, I can get the bindings Marker Xcomp, XcompGW or Xcell 12, 16, or 18 for pretty much the same price. Any suggestions?

Finally, is there a particular angle degree and tuning you would recommend for the edges?

Again, thank you so much for your advice and support, I love this forum

S

 

[ScotsSkier]

the Nordica should work well and it also has the marker piston plate which is one of the best plates out there. I didn't realize it was in a 188, it used to be a 184.

On the Marker if they are all the same price range, go for the XComp. Run, dont walk, away from the 12. It is only for lighter younger athletes. Personally I would go for the 18, it is more solid and has more metal which avoids some of the issues I have seen with the more plastic 12 and 16 Xcell toes where they have been occasionally subject to damage. You should check the Din rating though, I cant remember if the 18 starts at 8 or at 10. If that is an issue go for the 16 Xcomp.(starts at 5 0r 6 IIRC) But also dont worry if you are riunning at the low end of the Din rating, they work well there. I normally run my Comp 20s, which start at 11, at 12 but i have 15 # on you.

If there is a big price difference between the newer Xcomp and the Xcel,(the only real difference is in the toe) the Xcel is also fine on a GS ski. It is on a speed ski where it can be too twitchy. Same advice applies though, the 18 is much more robust than the 16. Oh and you dont want the GW version on a GS ski

 

[Paul Lutes]

Not surest if relevant but in my enquiries regarding the Augment Masters Pro SL, I was told that starting this Fall Augment is discontinuing the Masters Pro line; it was unclear whether that was just the Pro SL or the GS also. In any event, they are still available according to their web page for the moment.

 

[stefano001]

Hi everyone,

I now have the Nordica Dobberman WC 188 sat in my room waiting for the season to start.

Thank you so so much for all your time and advice, I truly appreciate it!

I'll drop a review when I take them out for a ride

I hope you all have fantastic weekends, wherever you are.

Big hug from the UK!

S

 

[maxwerks]

Very interesting discussion here as I have the same stats as OP. I use Rossi 183 / 25m and Fischer 188 / 27m FIS junior skis for gates training. For technical free skiing my trainer recommended to add a 16m cheater GS such as Head iSpeed Pro to the quiver. I am almost ready to pull the trigger on the Rossi/Dyna Master in 170cm given the rave reviews on Skieur and Neveitalia. I I I also shortlisted Salomon X/Max Blast, Nordica Spitfire RB and Blizzard WRC. Stockli and Augment would be of interest too if money were no issue

 

[CO Freeskier]

On the Marker...Run, dont walk, away from the 12. It is only for lighter younger athletes. Personally I would go for the 18, it is more solid and has more metal which avoids some of the issues I have seen with the more plastic 12 and 16 Xcell toes where they have been occasionally subject to damage.

Wise advice if you go with the Nordica. Used to have the 21M version of Doberman WC GSR which was absolutely incredible ski...the Marker bindings not so much.

 

[ScotsSkier]

Wise advice if you go with the Nordica. Used to have the 21M version of Doberman WC GSR which was absolutely incredible ski...the Marker bindings not so much.

Just for full disclosure and to clarify, I am NOT advocating for the "all markers are crap bandwagon". My advice to the OP was not to use the 12 Din version which I would only use for a younger/lighter athlete. The previous gen Comp 18 and 20 (and 30) are in my experience great bindings (and I have used multiple sets of them in the last 10 years - at one stage I had 8 pairs with Comp 20s in the quiver). Notable that Hirscher plus several other top WC athletes have also been using them. And a lot of the top level marker athletes still use the old Comp binding (especially on a speed ski)

The majority of the issues with race Markers are NOT from some interwebz inherent issue of pre-release but with incorrect forward pressure adjustment and/or using the 12 or even the 16 version. The older Comp 16s had a known issue with the forward pressure slacking off so they needed to be checked and adjusted very frequently. I have not seen this with the 18, 20 or 30.

 

[S.H.]

The older Comp 16s had a known issue with the forward pressure slacking off so they needed to be checked and adjusted very frequently. I have not seen this with the 18, 20 or 30.

And while it might be a known issue, I've had over 20 pairs of the 16s without running into this. Still have some of them.

I also had 10+ pairs of the more plasticky 14s without issues ... still have a few of those kicking around on my SL skis.

That said, the higher DIN versions are definitely more bomb-proof if you're comfortable with the release settings

I only ever had one pair of XCells and didn't like them/didn't want to pay for new bindings, so no real comment there. Have a couple pairs of the new XComps from the last couple of seasons ... no complaints yet

 

[ScotsSkier]

And while it might be a known issue, I've had over 20 pairs of the 16s without running into this. Still have some of them.

I also had 10+ pairs of the more plasticky 14s without issues ... still have a few of those kicking around on my SL skis.

That said, the higher DIN versions are definitely more bomb-proof if you're comfortable with the release settings

I only ever had one pair of XCells and didn't like them/didn't want to pay for new bindings, so no real comment there. Have a couple pairs of the new XComps from the last couple of seasons ... no complaints yet

Interesting S.H. I had the issue with a few pairs of 16s and several of my athletes have had the same experience.

I haven't used the Xcel or X comp much but I have also heard reports from soem of my athletes that the Xcel needs 2 extra clicks of forward pressure rather than 1 click

 

[S.H.]

Interesting S.H. I had the issue with a few pairs of 16s and several of my athletes have had the same experience.

I haven't used the Xcel or X comp much but I have also heard reports from soem of my athletes that the Xcel needs 2 extra clicks of forward pressure rather than 1 click

For sure, and I know many others who had the issue too. Maybe I checked forward pressure more than I remember, but ... I don't think so. I very well might be the outlier. Just providing another data point.