All-Mountain but 140 or more stiffness??

[RikkiBobbi]

I recently ordered some Lange rx130 boots in 100 last, they'll be the first new boots I've owned in probably 15 years (basically stopped skiing cold turkey.) The last few pairs I did own were Lange WC Plug boots. No idea what they were called, but I do remember they were the legit plug boots and not the intermediate ones. This was before plug and WC boots became common and available retail; you really had to work over your area rep to get a pair.

Anyways...I'm wondering if the RX130 will be too soft for me. I've skied precisely one time since 2008, but it was like riding a bike- this was last season. Shortly after that 1-day trip I went to try some boots on hoping to get back into it, and the stiffest thing they had was Speedmachines in 130. I didn't end up buying them but I recall them feeling fairly soft (though was indoors). That was last winter, but I just found a sweet deal on RX130 this past week so I scooped them up.

I'm about 5'10, 200+ pounds in gear and am an aggressive skier. Former high-level racer blah blah. Hoping to get started again doing both east/west coast and a mix of on and off piste with favor going to on-piste.

If the Lange RX130 isn't stiff enough for me, what are my options? I know I can put in some Intuition liners, but does that really make a difference? If not, what else is out there that's stiffer, that wont kill my feet and be ice cold like WC boots would?

thanks for your time

 

[Ken_R]

I recently ordered some Lange rx130 boots in 100 last, they'll be the first new boots I've owned in probably 15 years (basically stopped skiing cold turkey.) The last few pairs I did own were Lange WC Plug boots. No idea what they were called, but I do remember they were the legit plug boots and not the intermediate ones. This was before plug and WC boots became common and available retail; you really had to work over your area rep to get a pair.

Anyways...I'm wondering if the RX130 will be too soft for me. I've skied precisely one time since 2008, but it was like riding a bike- this was last season. Shortly after that 1-day trip I went to try some boots on hoping to get back into it, and the stiffest thing they had was Speedmachines in 130. I didn't end up buying them but I recall them feeling fairly soft (though was indoors). That was last winter, but I just found a sweet deal on RX130 this past week so I scooped them up.

I'm about 5'10, 200+ pounds in gear and am an aggressive skier. Former high-level racer blah blah. Hoping to get started again doing both east/west coast and a mix of on and off piste with favor going to on-piste.

If the Lange RX130 isn't stiff enough for me, what are my options? I know I can put in some Intuition liners, but does that really make a difference? If not, what else is out there that's stiffer, that wont kill my feet and be ice cold like WC boots would?

thanks for your time

They should work well with most any all mountain ski. On hard and rough snow and with stiffer and heavier skis (and higher speeds) you might want something stiffer, on occasion. Most intuition liners add quite a bit of stiffness. I have a pair of pro tongue intuition liners and the denser foam definitely stiffened up my boots (which is something I wanted).

 

[ski otter 2]

I own both the RX 130s and the RS 130s, and enjoy both. Use both.

Two things: first, the RX 130s are probably great for transitioning back to skiing. They also will be good, probably optimal, for off piste and powder conditions, though not on piste as much (where the RS 130s would be clearly superior). The main differences between the two are the RX has a softer, padded (dampening) underfootbed/?bed - Keeblersomething, call it, because I've drawn a blank trying to remember what that k-thing is called; and probably softer plastic also with a noticeably softer flex. Once you really break in the RXes, the flex will be softer still, and for really driving the tips, probably too soft for on piste skiing, comparatively, by the end of the first year (or some 25-35 full days in).

Second, you can stiffen up and improve the flex of those boots in a good way, especially given your size (though I am a lighter weight skier, and same improvements applied to me). Get WC booster straps, about $30 (the stiffest ones, with the gold buckles), and put them on in place of the Lange straps, especially as you are a former racer, and you have groomer interest. Wear these on the outside of the boots, the way the racers do with these on the RS 130s and plugs. (Alternatively, you can experiment with both these WC boosters and/or the softer ones, the black buckle racer/expert ones, by putting them inside the first or outer flap instead of the normal outside, as this changes and stiffens the flex a bit, and is one of the preferred ways of using them, especially the black buckle ones, especially for freeride/powder skiers, who like a softer flex.

In addition to stiffening up the flex of RXes, especially once they've been broken in, the WC (gold) booster straps will create a better flex pattern, one that isn't so abrupt and thus prevents any risk of shin bang as a side benefit. (Both the gold buckle wc and the black buckle expert versions will prevent shin bang, but in my opinion, only the gold buckle ones will stiffen those RXes up, in a good way.)

Hope that helps.

 

[ski otter 2]

P.S. Regarding getting different, third party liners: in my experience, this is a very individual thing. For me, I feel the flex of the Lange boot with the Lange lining is very dialed in for experts, aggressive skiing, and g.s. racers. It is designed to ski the shell, feel the shell, with the liner designed to not get in the way. That's why G.S. racers will often use that lining, as G.S. often likes a bit softer boot than slalom or the speed events.

In my experience, with a proper Intuition liner you are skiing the liner rather than that dialed in Lange shell. Some folks like this, some don't.
I experience the stiffer Intuitions may offer increased edge control at the expense of fine-tuning feel and/or some loss of options or versatility.

If the RX fits you, and eventually you still feel a need for a stiffer boot, I'd suggest getting the RS 130s also (a consumer or easier fit race boot that is especially versatile for all ski conditions). Like me, you may then find you enjoy both boots, for overlapping conditions and variety.

 

[RikkiBobbi]

P.S. Regarding getting different, third party liners: in my experience, this is a very individual thing. For me, I feel the flex of the Lange boot with the Lange lining is very dialed in for experts, aggressive skiing, and g.s. racers. It is designed to ski the shell, feel the shell, with the liner designed to not get in the way. That's why G.S. racers will often use that lining, as G.S. often likes a bit softer boot than slalom or the speed events.

In my experience, with a proper Intuition liner you are skiing the liner rather than that dialed in Lange shell. Some folks like this, some don't.
I experience the stiffer Intuitions may offer increased edge control at the expense of fine-tuning feel and/or some loss of options or versatility.

If the RX fits you, and eventually you still feel a need for a stiffer boot, I'd suggest getting the RS 130s also (a consumer or easier fit race boot that is especially versatile for all ski conditions). Like me, you may then find you enjoy both boots, for overlapping conditions and variety.

Thank you Otter for your very thoughtful and detailed reply. Certainly all good points to consider. The booster straps may be a no brainer so I can look to pick those up now. I remember when those first came out many years ago! I have no doubt that I would prefer the RS130 ore even the ZC on groomers - the question is whether or not the RX will be good enough. Hoping that the comfort of the RX helps overcome whatever disadvantage it has vs the RS on the smooth stuff. I guess there really isn't a way to tell, without really skiing the RX and breaking it in.

 

[ski otter 2]

I find the fit and comfort level is about the same with both boots, perhaps surprisingly; IF both boots fit. The RXes are a bit easier for boot fitters to punch-and-grind modify-to-fit (different plastics), but a good bootfitter with race boot experience can do both just as easily, with almost identical comfort and fit as a result.

As I mentioned, the big difference besides the flex is the bit of extra dampening underfoot with the RX (for moguls, landings, variable and rough crud) versus the precision and dialed in edge control/flex of the RSes, which are also versatile in different conditions/terrain. The wc boosters used as the racers do, help bring the RX flex up much closer to the RSes, to get good overlap. So for the first year of use, at least, I've experienced the RXes do well on piste. You're heavier than me, so I'm not as sure for you.

By the way, one of the big appeals of the Intuitions is they are much warmer.

 

[RikkiBobbi]

What about Lange RX130 vs Nordica GPX 130?

 

[ski otter 2]

Funny you should mention that. I had the misfortune to stumble into an ortho-trained bootfitting outfit here in Denver, that really cost a ton and, seemingly, tried their best to mess things up for me. They said my 26.5 Langes (RS &RX) were too small, and I needed a pair of Nordica 27.5 Doberman 130 GPs (98) or 130 GPXs (93, I believe). And I got a pair of GPs, now fitted with the ortho guys' pricey footbed, this summer. I'll have to ski them to see how they are, but walking around the house, they feel too roomy. They have less room than the Lange's of the same size, so hence the thinking was one size up in a lower volume (for me) boot. This season snow days will tell.

I was to learn right afterward, from a better bootfitter for me, that there was nothing wrong with my Langes that a great, well-rounded bootfitter couldn't fix very reasonably.

Besides the narrower 93 last, the main difference between the two (GP & GPX), I was told, was that the GPXes had their zeppa screwed down to the boot, instead of floating, like the GPs and Langes. The stiffness and fit (mold) are supposed to be almost the same. I find the GPs to have a slightly different flex, but I haven't skied them yet.

Zeppa. That's what that underfoot thingie is called.

 

[surfandski]

FWIW Ski Otter. You can get the same rubbery Zeppas from the RX and use them in your RS. My bootfitter put some of those in my RS 130s last season to provide a bit more dampening for my bad ankle. During the off season I bought a new pair of RX 130 and RS 130 and I'll be going with the RS and selling the RX.

OP- if you need to go stiffer you can get a Nordica direct driver spoiler that mounts on the front of the boot. I'll be using those on my RS 130 which will make it more like a 140.

 

[RikkiBobbi]

OK I went to the only reasonably reputable fitter in my area and tried on the RX130. It felt ok but I'm a tad nervous it's going to be too soft. The fitter said if he had just examined my feet and measured, he would have recommended we start with the Mach1 LV - which they unfortunately don't stock.

So...now I'm thinking between RS130 and Mach1 130 LV....no where around here to try on either, though

 

[4ster]

I went from 150 plugs to the RS130's about 7 or 8 years ago. On my first few runs, I thought I'd made a big mistake but looking back it was the right one for me. Around the same time I really backed off doing any racing or gate training & have only done a few SL gates in the past 2 years, so YMMV.
Except on the firmest snow, skiing is better on the RS130's most all off-piste conditions are easier & skied smoother. I'd say maybe only 5% of the time would I rather be back in plugs. I am about your height but lighter than you by 40lbs & probably older. I am a 100+ day a season skier in the west & may think differently if I was in the east or skiing real ice most of the time. I am moving into my 4th pair of RS 130's. Realize also that the RL's have a softer sole. I am not a boot fitter or a retailer but I am pretty sure that a 130 Nordica or a 130 Head will ski stiffer than a Lange 130.

PC: Chris Morgan

 

[RikkiBobbi]

Do some east coast retailers carry plug boots to try on? I'm closer to mid-atlantic than i am to VT and my local retailer will order them for me, but only if i pay ahead of time and no refunds.

 

[Philpug]

Do some east coast retailers carry plug boots to try on? I'm closer to mid-atlantic than i am to VT and my local retailer will order them for me, but only if i pay ahead of time and no refunds.

Vermont for sure.

 

[RikkiBobbi]

How do i get in touch with an area rep to try and link up with him/her when they're more in my area and maybe get a pair to try on? Vermont is 10-12 hours drive for me

 

[Brian Finch]

140 Flex + Nordica Direct Drive plate

 

[Josh Matta]

If you lower leg's for and aft angle + delta is correct there is no such thing as too stiff.

 

[Philpug]

How do i get in touch with an area rep to try and link up with him/her when they're more in my area and maybe get a pair to try on? Vermont is 10-12 hours drive for me

Reps do not stock boots for demo.

OK I went to the only reasonably reputable fitter in my area and tried on the RX130. It felt ok but I'm a tad nervous it's going to be too soft. The fitter said if he had just examined my feet and measured, he would have recommended we start with the Mach1 LV - which they unfortunately don't stock.

So...now I'm thinking between RS130 and Mach1 130 LV....no where around here to try on either, though

Both of these boots are very food and the fit is similar, especially in the heels. At this point, it sounds like your option is to go on line, buy both, bring them to said fitter, have him do the final adjustments and return the other pair of boots.

 

[RikkiBobbi]

Reps do not stock boots for demo.


Both of these boots are very food and the fit is similar, especially in the heels. At this point, it sounds like your option is to go on line, buy both, bring them to said fitter, have him do the final adjustments and return the other pair of boots.

I'm not talking about demo, just to try on and get his/her opinion if they'll work for my feet with some adjustments. Do you have any other recommendations aside from Mach1, RS130/140 or plugs? Maybe Raptor 140? Again nowhere around here to try those on either...My only option to buy/try/return is for Mach1 130 and RS130, and maybe other recommendations like Raptor 140

 

[Philpug]

I'm not talking about demo, just to try on and get his/her opinion if they'll work for my feet with some adjustments. Do you have any other recommendations aside from Mach1, RS130/140 or plugs? Maybe Raptor 140? Again nowhere around here to try those on either...My only option to buy/try/return is for Mach1 130 and RS130, and maybe other recommendations like Raptor 140

Sorry, I meant demo as even to try on, you are not the reps customer, the shop is and all the rep will tend to have is a sampling if models to show shops.

I am sorry that there are no boot fitters in your area. We might run into a comparable situation where there are no surf shops in Vermont or South Dakota, a business serve the to the market that it is dealt. I will say that you are in a much better situation today than it was even a decade ago...you can order the boot on line and have it brought right to your door. The other option is to go to where the boots are, if you are 10 hours to Vermont, you might be better off to just fly west and combine the fit process with a ski trip and get all the tweeks and everything done in one trip.

 

[Andy Mink]

@RikkiBobbi, I learned something yesterday that you may want to check on your 130s.

A bit of history. I'm your height but about 20-25# heavier. I don't ski terribly aggressively but I have my moments. I was in Technica Cochise 130s and could flex them. A lot. Looking for new boots I figured I needed a stiffer boot. The Speedmachines were, as you noted, somewhat soft. The Atomic Hawk (forget exactly which one) in 120 felt stiffer than a Doberman 130. What a PIA!

Then, the epiphany. Paying attention to all the flexes I realized when I was pressing forward on the boot I was really pressing forward and out. Not much, but enough to not be flexing directly the way a boot is designed to be flexed. When consciously pressing straight forward the boot felt stiffer. The shop had a Head Raptor in 120. Tried that on, put some shims under the soles to get my knees aligned better and BAM! They felt stiffer than any of the 130s I tried on or already owned. I will have them properly adjusted to get me lined up.

So, cut to the chase, make sure you're flexing straight into the boot. You may not need as high a flex index as previously thought. That would allow you to get a softer flex that may be a bit warmer. Good luck!