• For more information on how to avoid pop-up ads and still support SkiTalk click HERE.

Alpine-Touring hybrid setup

AlpedHuez

Chasing that Odermatt form
Skier
Joined
Mar 4, 2020
Posts
432
Location
Oakland/Tahoe expat in London
I have no experience in backcountry/touring skiing, but as an expert experienced alpine skier, I am intrigued by the range of hybrid bindings to expand my horizons beyond the downhill options at the resort. I am based in UK, so I don't have local mountains to drive and hike to - this exercise would be solely for uphill terrain accessible in a European resort setting.

Between the Shift and the new Marker Duke PT, I am more intrigued by the Duke PT (12 not 16 would suit just fine). The widest ski I have is the 19/20 Mantra M5 @ 96 underfoot, and I mounted a Griffon on that. I was considering snapping up a Rustler 10 or 11, if anyone wants to advise on either's suitability for touring use. Another option could be the new Volkl Blaze or the Black Crows Justis.

For a hybrid boot, I was looking at the Nordica Strider 130 Pro DYN.

Bottom line, I want a setup that is not biased to the backcountry or out-of-bounds touring, but feels right at home and uncompromising in-bounds at the resort.
 
Last edited:

Choucas

Getting off the lift
Skier
Joined
Feb 17, 2016
Posts
342
Location
Vermont
If you are only going uphill in resort in the Alps, it really doesn’t matter. All of your suggestions would work fine and have a very traditional alpine ski/boot/binding kind of feel. Quite heavy on the up, but comfortable on the down part. You might consider just getting boots and renting the skis & skins in resort. Less to haul around, particularly if you are also bringing your Mantras and your alpine boots. If you’ve never done this before, I’d strongly suggest going out with a guide or instructor the first few times. You can rent the safety gear, shovel,probe, transceiver, ski crampons, pack. You will learn a lot and it will be much more enjoyable, not to mention safer.
 

Mattadvproject

Love that powder!
Industry Insider
Joined
Apr 24, 2017
Posts
1,097
Location
Granby, CO
I have no experience in backcountry/touring skiing, but as an expert experienced alpine skier, I am intrigued by the range of hybrid bindings to expand my horizons beyond the downhill options at the resort. I am based in UK, so I don't have local mountains to drive and hike to - this exercise would be solely for uphill terrain accessible in a European resort setting.

Between the Shift and the new Marker Duke PT, I am more intrigued by the Duke PT (12 not 16 would suit just fine). The widest ski I have is the 19/20 Mantra M5 @ 96 underfoot, and I mounted a Griffon on that. I was considering snapping up a Rustler 10 or 11, if anyone wants to advise on either's suitability for touring use. Another option could be the new Volkl Blaze or the Black Crows Justis.

For a hybrid boot, I was looking at the Nordica Strider 130 Pro DYN.

Bottom line, I want a setup that is not biased to the backcountry or out-of-bounds touring, but feels right at home and uncompromising in-bounds at the resort.

In terms of the two bindings you are looking at, I personally would go for the Shifts. They are proven technology and do a great job in my opinion. I've been on them for 3 years now and love them. I'm very happy with them and they do a great job for the kind of skiing I like to do. I haven't been on the new Duke PT's and I haven't talked to anyone who has been on them either. They do look slick, perhaps over-designed and there are definitely some negatives on paper, when comparing them to the Shifts (I'm comparing them to the new Shift 10's, if you can go that low in DIN).

The Shift 10's are considerably lighter, at 875g per individual binding. The Duke 12's weigh in at 880g in touring mode and then 1180g in ski mode. If you take the toe piece's off for touring, then you are still carrying that weight in your pack and then you have 2 major components loose that you don't want to lose in the snow.

Both have the same riser angle at 10 degrees and the Dukes have the lower stand-height at 24mm and the Shifts are at 30mm. The Shifts have been around for a decent amount of time and haven't suffered from too many bugs, none that I've heard about at least. The only 'issues' I've encountered are the climbing aid sometimes likes to flip down when touring in deep powder and the pins can be a little finicky to get into, when you are dialing them in. Otherwise, for their intended purpose, they work great.

Hope that gives you a little more intel to consider......

- Matt
 

Cheizz

AKA Gigiski
Skier
Joined
Aug 15, 2016
Posts
1,958
Location
The Netherlands
I put together my free touring set-up last season. I also ski in the Alps. Mostly lift-served off-piste if conditions are right, but I have broadened my search for soft snow. I won't be doing bottom to top skiing up mountains. Just from the highest lift just over that ridge, away from the crowds, etc.
I dit try touring in my race boots and a frame binding a few times before, but that was really shit. Especially the boots that have no range of motion...
So I tried a bunch of lighter freeride skis and some dedicated touring skis also. I felt that that last category didn't give me the support and stability I wanted skiing down. Especially if the spring snow is wet and a bit denser, they just skid and flap about. And since it's still all about the downhill for me, I went for something I know skis really well, but isn't the lightest set-up possible.

I have mounted a pair of 2018-2019 Blizzard Rustler 10's with Fritschi Tecton 12 bindings. Like the Kingpin and the Shift, they have a tech toe and an alpine heel piece. But they're a bit lighter than the other two (approximately 650 g apiece, including brake). The ski's come in at about 1870 each, in 180 length.

I did think about just putting a touring bindings on my 2018 K2 Pinnacle 105's, but they feel a bit heavier and a bit too wide and rockered for skinning. The Rustler 10 has a much flatter tale, which really helps. The weight also helps, obviously. I hope all this is relatable. I do think our stories and wishes are much alike. For reference, I'm 6' (1.82 m) and 190 lbs (86 kg).
 
Last edited:

Cheizz

AKA Gigiski
Skier
Joined
Aug 15, 2016
Posts
1,958
Location
The Netherlands
And on the boots front... There are some great options.

Nordica Strider
Tecnica Cochise
Lange XT Free
Fischer Ranger Free Walk DYN (I have the 130 flex)
K2 Mindbender
Head Kore
Rossignol Alltrack
Atomic Hawx Ultra XTD

And probably some more. They all come with proper downhill performance, DYN inserts, walking mode and range of motion. But as with all ski boots: fit is everything.
 
Thread Starter
TS
AlpedHuez

AlpedHuez

Chasing that Odermatt form
Skier
Joined
Mar 4, 2020
Posts
432
Location
Oakland/Tahoe expat in London
In terms of the two bindings you are looking at, I personally would go for the Shifts. They are proven technology and do a great job in my opinion. I've been on them for 3 years now and love them. I'm very happy with them and they do a great job for the kind of skiing I like to do. I haven't been on the new Duke PT's and I haven't talked to anyone who has been on them either. They do look slick, perhaps over-designed and there are definitely some negatives on paper, when comparing them to the Shifts (I'm comparing them to the new Shift 10's, if you can go that low in DIN).

The Shift 10's are considerably lighter, at 875g per individual binding. The Duke 12's weigh in at 880g in touring mode and then 1180g in ski mode. If you take the toe piece's off for touring, then you are still carrying that weight in your pack and then you have 2 major components loose that you don't want to lose in the snow.

Both have the same riser angle at 10 degrees and the Dukes have the lower stand-height at 24mm and the Shifts are at 30mm. The Shifts have been around for a decent amount of time and haven't suffered from too many bugs, none that I've heard about at least. The only 'issues' I've encountered are the climbing aid sometimes likes to flip down when touring in deep powder and the pins can be a little finicky to get into, when you are dialing them in. Otherwise, for their intended purpose, they work great.

Hope that gives you a little more intel to consider......

- Matt
Thank you, Matt. In the @SkiEssentials review, Jeff says the Duke PTs are the most downhill-oriented of the spectrum including the Kingpin and the Shift, and that's really what I'm looking for. And I am a tried and true Marker aficionado. The (adapted) touring version of the Pivot 18 looks sweet (I forget the manufacturing Co), but that is probably cost-prohibitive. Perhaps I could find some place to play around with the Shift before I buy, but it just looks more complicated (compounding error for me personally) and less of the downhill binding than I am looking for. (Kingpin is not in the cards either for this reason).
 
Last edited:
Thread Starter
TS
AlpedHuez

AlpedHuez

Chasing that Odermatt form
Skier
Joined
Mar 4, 2020
Posts
432
Location
Oakland/Tahoe expat in London
I put together my free touring set-up last season. I also ski in the Alps. Mostly lift-served off-piste if conditions are right, but I have broadened my search for soft snow. I won't be doing bottom to top skiing up mountains. Just from the highest lift just over that ridge, away from the crowds, etc.
I dit try touring in my race boots and a frame binding a few times before, but that was really shit. Especially the boots that have no range of motion...
So I tried a bunch of lighter freeride skis and some dedicated touring skis also. I felt that that last category didn't give me the support and stability I wanted skiing down. Especially if the spring snow is wet and a bit denser, they just skid and flap about. And since it's still all about the downhill for me, I went for something I know skis really well, but isn't the lightest set-up possible.

I have mounted a pair of 2018-2019 Blizzard Rustler 10's with Fritschi Tecton 12 bindings. Like the Kingpin and the Shift, they have a tech toe and an alpine heel piece. But they're a bit lighter than the other two (approximately 650 g apiece, including brake). The ski's come in at about 1870 each, in 180 length.

I did think about just putting a touring bindings on my 2018 K2 Pinnacle 105's, but they feel a bit heavier and a bit too wide and rockered for skinning. The Rustler 10 has a much flatter tale, which really helps. The weight also helps, obviously. I hope all this is relatable. I do think our stories and wishes are much alike. For reference, I'm 6' (1.82 m) and 190 lbs (86 kg).
Thank you, this is very helpful, and, indeed, mirrors my own experience-aspirations. Not so lucky as to have skinnnable mountains in my London backyard.

Blizzard(/Nordica) does seem to be the go-to manufacturer for me now, and I would go with the Rustler over the Zero G for its in-bound resort usage. Some Navigator 90s out there for a steal as well. Still intrigued by Black Crows, but perhaps that is more to do with the attitude and marketing of their brand to the badass free skier crowd at Cham and the like.

On the boots, the Strider, Cochise and XT Free would be the three boots in contention indeed, from the manufacturers I know well and trust (having the Mach1 130 and RX 130 in my collection, and in the hunt for a GP 140).
 
Last edited:

Cheizz

AKA Gigiski
Skier
Joined
Aug 15, 2016
Posts
1,958
Location
The Netherlands
I have skied a few Black Crows skis. I love the Atris (if I had to buy a new freeride 1-0-something now that would be it). For touring I would go for a bit narrower and a flatter tail. I love the Navis (outgoing model) and the Camox. I also tried the Camox Freebird (dedicated touring version), but that one is too big of a sacrifice on the downhill. The Justis seems great on paper, but as a very solid all mountain charger. I would not consider it for touring. It is also quite heavy.

Personally, I never connected with the Shift. I had too many pre-releases on the different Paris I've been on. And both with Kingpin and Tecton I have never felt the toe was lacking in downhill performance or feeling insecure. But then again, I am nog a charger or aggressive skier. I just have the mass.
 
Thread Starter
TS
AlpedHuez

AlpedHuez

Chasing that Odermatt form
Skier
Joined
Mar 4, 2020
Posts
432
Location
Oakland/Tahoe expat in London
I have skied a few Black Crows skis. I love the Atris (if I had to buy a new freeride 1-0-something now that would be it). For touring I would go for a bit narrower and a flatter tail. I love the Navis (outgoing model) and the Camox. I also tried the Camox Freebird (dedicated touring version), but that one is too big of a sacrifice on the downhill. The Justis seems great on paper, but as a very solid all mountain charger. I would not consider it for touring. It is also quite heavy.

Personally, I never connected with the Shift. I had too many pre-releases on the different Paris I've been on. And both with Kingpin and Tecton I have never felt the toe was lacking in downhill performance or feeling insecure. But then again, I am nog a charger or aggressive skier. I just have the mass.
What about the 20/21 Black Crows Orb? Now 88 underfoot (down from 91) and flat-ish tail? Too narrow or heavy for touring? I have a flat 18/19 Brahma that I could mount a hybrid binding, but I had slated that for a Pivot, since it is more of a wider piste carver/charger.
 

Cheizz

AKA Gigiski
Skier
Joined
Aug 15, 2016
Posts
1,958
Location
The Netherlands
I only skied the 2018 Orb (I think), it's more like the Brahma or the Kendo. Too much hardpack-oriented. Or rather, not enough soft snow oriented (both in weight and in float). A Kore 93 would be better then. Or a Kore 99 if you want a bit more width. Solid, stiff, great on hardpack still, but light enough for touring.
 
Thread Starter
TS
AlpedHuez

AlpedHuez

Chasing that Odermatt form
Skier
Joined
Mar 4, 2020
Posts
432
Location
Oakland/Tahoe expat in London
I only skied the 2018 Orb (I think), it's more like the Brahma or the Kendo. Too much hardpack-oriented. Or rather, not enough soft snow oriented (both in weight and in float). A Kore 93 would be better then. Or a Kore 99 if you want a bit more width. Solid, stiff, great on hardpack still, but light enough for touring.
Oh I have the original Kore 93 (from 17/18) with an Attack 11. It doesn't have the full sidewall of latest versions, and I find it too chattery at speed (the lightness isn't an upside for me), so it hasn't got much use in my quiver for a few seasons now.
 

Ken_R

Living the Dream
Skier
Joined
Feb 10, 2016
Posts
5,775
Location
Denver, CO
I have no experience in backcountry/touring skiing, but as an expert experienced alpine skier, I am intrigued by the range of hybrid bindings to expand my horizons beyond the downhill options at the resort. I am based in UK, so I don't have local mountains to drive and hike to - this exercise would be solely for uphill terrain accessible in a European resort setting.

Between the Shift and the new Marker Duke PT, I am more intrigued by the Duke PT (12 not 16 would suit just fine). The widest ski I have is the 19/20 Mantra M5 @ 96 underfoot, and I mounted a Griffon on that. I was considering snapping up a Rustler 10 or 11, if anyone wants to advise on either's suitability for touring use. Another option could be the new Volkl Blaze or the Black Crows Justis.

For a hybrid boot, I was looking at the Nordica Strider 130 Pro DYN.

Bottom line, I want a setup that is not biased to the backcountry or out-of-bounds touring, but feels right at home and uncompromising in-bounds at the resort.

I would go with the Duke PT. Seems a bit more solid than the Shift although its close. Marker goes with Volkl :ogbiggrin: The M5 is an awesome ski. I would go with the M5 or Rustler 10 for ocasional touring.

The Nordica Strider is a solid alpine ski boot with touring capability built in.
 

Crank

Making fresh tracks
Skier
Joined
Dec 19, 2015
Posts
2,623
I really like my Technica Cochise boots. They have interchangeable, screw on soles are comfy, have plenty of beef/support for in-bounds, have a decent walk mode. They are probably too heavy to consider a full time touring boot, but I have done several days touring in them.

The bindings I have been on for the past 5 years are Fritschi Eagles. A bit lighter duty than the Freerides but they hold me when I need to be held and release me when I need to be released. I am not a light guy at 200lbs.

The skis I have been using are also about 5 years old and are G3 Saintes, 93mm waisted with slight early rise and 179cm length. I wanted something light and maneuverable. They have been really good with the exception that I could use more length for light, deep powder. How often have I found them to be lacking due to those conditions you ask? Not enough, sigh, not nearly enough.

I have been using them probably 85% resort and 15% touring and side country excursions. (meaning side country where skinning is involved)

I just got some Head Kore 105's at 189cm and am putting regular bindings on them. I will keep my old rig for drive to touring and will rent gear if I go touring on fly to ski trips.
 

Idris

Getting off the lift
Skier
Joined
Dec 6, 2018
Posts
106
Location
Chamonix
As someone who has played in the big hills for 2 decades, worked on Cat skiing ops and a few other ski based jobs, I have a fair bit of experience, hear is my 2c. Just slap a Marker F10 or F12 on a pair of skis you already have and get some skins to suit. Assuming you already have Beacon,Shovel,Probe. Spend money on days with a guide, not gear. Get 20, no 50 days under your belt before going near any fancy lighweight gear.
I did many seasons on Fritschis and before that Securifix, with race style boots and when I did upgrade to dynafits, it was nicer but it wasn't a game changer.
Yes my Roxa Rx1's Plum race bindings and a pair of sub 1.2kg but still 175 and 88 are much nicer uphill than F10/12 and Normal boots o a big ski, they only come out to play 5 or less days in 100! And I walk uphill more than most people I know!
As for boots you choose by the ones that fit your feet, anything else is stupid! A proper bootfiter will advise what freeride boots are apropriate for you feet and you are spoiled for chice these days....I modified many boots into freeride / touring boots over they years, 30 od pairs for of DIY vibram for various ski patrolers.
 
Thread Starter
TS
AlpedHuez

AlpedHuez

Chasing that Odermatt form
Skier
Joined
Mar 4, 2020
Posts
432
Location
Oakland/Tahoe expat in London
Two out of three setup choices settled: I now have a Rustler 10 (flat) and Strider 130 Pro incoming. Holding out for Duke PT, so I can use setup for resort pistes straight away (especially if Chile in August works out for this year). 102 will be my widest skis in my Euro Alps-purposed quiver (beyond the Mantra M5 which I already put Griffons on and would not use that as my touring ski -- too heavy metal).
 
Last edited:

David

"Quando Omni Flunkus Moritati"
Skier
Joined
Oct 14, 2017
Posts
1,341
Location
Holland, MI
I'm in an area where backcountry isn't really an option very often so I went with DayMaker adapters and very happy I did. All I needed to buy were the DayMakers and skins. Lighter than a combo binding and the skiing is solid.
 

jmeb

Enjoys skiing.
Skier
Joined
Nov 13, 2015
Posts
4,489
Location
Colorado
Lighter than a combo binding

Curious about this comment -- the combined weight of your alpine binding + the daymakers is less than a frame binding like the Duke/Adrenaline/Guardian?
 

Slim

Making fresh tracks
Skier
SkiTalk Supporter
Joined
Oct 2, 2017
Posts
2,971
Location
Duluth, MN
Curious about this comment -- the combined weight of your alpine binding + the daymakers is less than a frame binding like the Duke/Adrenaline/Guardian?
And those are the heaviest frame bindings, Aambition, F10, Fritschi are
lighter, let alone @David , said “combo” binding, not frame binding, so I think he’s talking about Shift or Duke Pt.

Anyway, regardless whether that ‘lighter’ part is correct, it seems a great set up if you want max performance/durability for lift served, combed with a grest walking motion, and are ok with the higher weight/fiddle factor.
 

David

"Quando Omni Flunkus Moritati"
Skier
Joined
Oct 14, 2017
Posts
1,341
Location
Holland, MI
Curious about this comment -- the combined weight of your alpine binding + the daymakers is less than a frame binding like the Duke/Adrenaline/Guardian?
For me the Daymaker weight was not an issue. The reviews I was reading about AT frame bindings like the Adrenalin were not great on piste and since I'm in the midwest my skis will be on piste 75% of the time. For the time I can spend skinning I thought the Daymakers were a better option. The bonus is I don't need to go through the pain of fitting a tech boot.

The Tyrolia Adrenalin 13 has a listed weight of 2450 grams. The Attack 13's are listed at 1035 grams and the Daymakers are listed at 1380 grams for a combination of 2316. That's 134 grams less than the Adrenalin.
 

jmeb

Enjoys skiing.
Skier
Joined
Nov 13, 2015
Posts
4,489
Location
Colorado
The Tyrolia Adrenalin 13 has a listed weight of 2450 grams. The Attack 13's are listed at 1035 grams and the Daymakers are listed at 1380 grams for a combination of 2316. That's 134 grams less than the Adrenalin.

I understand why Daymakers make sense in midwest -- just was curious about the weight comment.

The 2450 for the Adrenalin is for a pair. Attack 13s are 1035 per individual binding, so 2060 per pair.
 

Sponsor

Top