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Alpine-Touring hybrid setup
- Thread starter AlpedHuez
- Start date
How do you like the Corvus Freebirds? I’m leaning this route.
Thread Starter
TS
I love them, they are perfect for the resort touring that I am inclined to (such as Chamonix). Don't know how they would do for a dedicated all/multi-day backcountry tour (you might want to have something less wide, perhaps). They tweaked the model for this season though, and I am not up on all of the differences, but I believe they are bit stiffer, and the tips have changed up the materials blend, rocker and rise a bit, so I would consider whether you want a 21/22 or the pre-22 version.
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Thanks! I’m actually considering between the Corvus and the Rustler 10 & 11 (with Switch bindings). Between the three I feel that Corvus would flavor better back country skiing, rustler 10 more North American resort skiing, and rustler 11 more powder focused. Any thoughts on Rustler 10 vs Corvus?
So...this is exactly what I did end up getting! Kore 105+Shifts and Technica ZeroG boot. Now I have my Tahoe touring setup that doubles as a travel ski. It is light and still capable enough to ski in the resort if I need to. Does it work as well as my alpine setup? Nope. But well enough to allow me not to to lug a heavy bag through the airport if I for example go on a work trip when I can ski a bit on the side.
By the way, Duke PT is apparently beyond bomber. Ross Tester skied them on the Freeride World Tour and if this binding can survive that kind of hits, it's solid...
Thread Starter
TS
I actually have both the Corvus and Rustler 10 (180 and 172), and I used to have a Duke PT 16 mounted on the Rustler 10s. But I thought that the banana shape of the Rustler (with the significant rocker in front and rear) was not ideally suited to the (resort) touring setup, so I put the Duke PT on a V-Werks Mantra. I think that is the ultimate hybrid resort touring setup.
I would say that the Rustler has a speed limit, that the Corvus does not. The Corvus is also a better carver, while the Rustler is surfier, more for slarving than pure carving.
I am going Rustler 11 and hoping to demo the Corvus Freebird this year at some point. I’ve been told that unlike other skis that Crows get skied out quickly (and why the local shop while fans of the initial performance, decided not to carry them).
Bumping this thread, for my recent acquisition of a more serious touring ski. Purchased the Movement Session 95 to pair with my Fritschi Tecton 12 bindings. Including my boots, this now gets me down to less than 8 lbs. per leg (was at just over 9 lbs. with current setup). So another pound per leg removed will hopefully get me to an even happier place. Kind of crazy when I think back to my first uphill setup being at almost 12 lbs. per leg!).
- Joined
- Dec 2, 2015
- Posts
- 24,929
Oohhh, very nice! I have lusted over those.
Can’t wait to hear. Hope they’re not too carbony.
Did you consider the ATK binding?
Well I purchased the Session 95 based on previous experience with other Movement skis. I like that Movement has specific construction features to deal with the vibration reduction. At 1450g (177cm) they're not the lightest skis on the planet, but they're significantly lighter than anything else I've owned or skied.
The ATK was a tough call. Honestly, I would have gone with the Raider if it weren't for already busting my right leg and having to be careful about the safety of the bindings. I know there's no guarantee that the Tecton 12 is actually safer, but it looks good on paper and that will at least let me sleep at night...
Fritschi is safer for sure. Only problem is, their quality is well... not all that Swiss In summer I was thinking about new binding for my narrow skis, and I was almost sure I will get Fritschi, because they should be by far safest binding, but then I have few friends with who I ski regulary, who had them (both Tecton in Vipec) and every single one of them had more then one binding failure in last season only. Fritschi guy in Slovenia is good and all was changed and handled without any issues, but it always took them few days, which means in middle of winter, you are without ski for few days, not to mention if it happens 20km into nowhere, it's pain in the a** to get back to car.
So on the end I went with ATK (Freerider 14), and well... now I'm fine with it, but first month or so it was not too nice either. On first tour, I got 2 releases without any reason. Ski just unclipped, and I wasn't even pushing hard. After that I changed some settings, so bindings are now set the way tech from ATK told me to set them, not the way ATK manual is telling you to set them, and now I'm fine. They release when they need to, and they stay on otherwise. But it took me more then month to get my head sorted, as every single turn I was thinking if my skis will stay on or not. And I guess it's useless to say, there was no way I went anywhere near anything steep and in "no fall zone" for more then month.
In summer I was thinking about new binding for my narrow skis, and I was almost sure I will get Fritschi, because they should be by far safest binding, but then I have few friends with who I ski regulary, who had them (both Tecton in Vipec) and every single one of them had more then one binding failure in last season only. Fritschi guy in Slovenia is good and all was changed and handled without any issues, but it always took them few days, which means in middle of winter, you are without ski for few days, not to mention if it happens 20km into nowhere, it's pain in the a** to get back to car.So on the end I went with ATK (Freerider 14), and well... now I'm fine with it, but first month or so it was not too nice either. On first tour, I got 2 releases without any reason. Ski just unclipped, and I wasn't even pushing hard. After that I changed some settings, so bindings are now set the way tech from ATK told me to set them, not the way ATK manual is telling you to set them, and now I'm fine. They release when they need to, and they stay on otherwise. But it took me more then month to get my head sorted, as every single turn I was thinking if my skis will stay on or not. And I guess it's useless to say, there was no way I went anywhere near anything steep and in "no fall zone" for more then month.
@Primoz where do you rate the TUV certified Dynafit ST Rotation safety wise to Fritschi Vipec/Tecton?Fritschi is safer for sure. Only problem is, their quality is well... not all that Swiss
Fritschi is safer for sure. Only problem is, their quality is well... not all that Swiss
So on the end I went with ATK (Freerider 14), and well... now I'm fine with it, but first month or so it was not too nice either. On first tour, I got 2 releases without any reason. Ski just unclipped, and I wasn't even pushing hard. After that I changed some settings, so bindings are now set the way tech from ATK told me to set them, not the way ATK manual is telling you to set them, and now I'm fine. They release when they need to, and they stay on otherwise. But it took me more then month to get my head sorted, as every single turn I was thinking if my skis will stay on or not. And I guess it's useless to say, there was no way I went anywhere near anything steep and in "no fall zone" for more then month.
There were some definite problems with the first couple years of the Tecton 12. Supposedly those issues were resolved (toe bumper, brake treadle, etc.). I have the 2021 version (original release was 2016-17). The 2022 version now has carbon-infused plastic to improve durability.
If I was a more frequent tourer and heavy user I might be a bit more concerned, but I decided I was willing to take my chances with the Tecton.
You mean how it 'auto-adjusts'?
No idea. I have Dynafit Speed Turn 2.0 (actually their Look colored version) on 106 pair and it's been good. I had it also on my old narrow pair (86mm) which I used as light and fast setup for ice and spring including pretty much all my steep skiing. No issues with any of these, but Speed turn is limited to "DIN" 10, and new "narrow" skis (94mm) are way more of a ski then old ones, so I wanted something with a bit more of a power. ST Rotation was never really an option, as it's much heavier then ATK and has less power. I would take some extra weight with Fritschi, due their toe lateral release, and as far as I know, Fritschi is the only pin binding with this. But if this is not an option, then I would go with lighter binding for same or similar "safety". So that's why ST Rotation was never really considered by me, and therefore I wasn't checking much into it.
Exactly what @Primoz said.
I rate the Tecton/Vipec as safer than all other tech bindings, because they release laterally at the toe, like an alpine binding,
Meaning, if you hit something near the front of your foot, they are more likely to release, preventing a lower leg fracture.
All other tech bindings (including the Kingpin) release laterally at the heel. Better at protecting your ACL if you have a hit somewhere near the back of your ski, but a blown ACL is more surviveable/manageable than a tib-fib fracture.
So, to be clear: not saying it is better every where. Just saying that in my estimation, the chances of a very serious injury are higher with a tradional tech binding than with the Vipec/Tecton.
Here is a full discussion of that:
blisterreview.com
I rate the Tecton/Vipec as safer than all other tech bindings, because they release laterally at the toe, like an alpine binding,
Meaning, if you hit something near the front of your foot, they are more likely to release, preventing a lower leg fracture.
All other tech bindings (including the Kingpin) release laterally at the heel. Better at protecting your ACL if you have a hit somewhere near the back of your ski, but a blown ACL is more surviveable/manageable than a tib-fib fracture.
So, to be clear: not saying it is better every where. Just saying that in my estimation, the chances of a very serious injury are higher with a tradional tech binding than with the Vipec/Tecton.
Here is a full discussion of that:
Blister Review Buyer's Guide | Black Diamond Fritschi Vipec 12
BLISTER | AT Bindings, Featured, Reviews | November 13, 2016 | The most honest & in-depth reviews of outdoor gear
blisterreview.com
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And... The Tecton is the lightest binding with a tech toe piece and an alpine-style heel piece.
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- Aug 24, 2017
- Posts
- 364
OK, here goes.
First, I'm biased. I injured my knee (ligaments) and ankle (cartilege) in a simple accident on piste with a Fritshi Vipec. The release was sticky/grabby/catchy, and the injury occured before the binding released. So I don't consider the Vipec/Tecton safe at all. On the contrary, I think it's deceptively unsafe, because people believe that it confers some saftey advantage and ski it normally, when, in fact, the release is unpredictable and inconsistent.
Second, I consider all pin bindings very risky for people who want to avoid leg injuries. That's the starting point. These bindings should not be used at the resort, and when skiing with pin bindings, one should ski with a great measure of caution and care. Don't take my word for it; listen to all the conversations out there, including from one pro skier on Blister who said, "Those bindings [pin bindings] are f***ing dangerous!"
OK, with that out of the way, I think it's important to acknowledge that "safety" means different things to different people.
For some people, it means absolutely not releasing, in any situation, for example, locking the toe above consequential terrain.
For other people, safety might mean good power transmission, elasticity, and solid ski feel, like folks using the CAST system with true alpine bindings, even ski tours with huge vertical gain in the Himalaya.
For others, safety means light gear that they can carry through long traverses, over big objectives, and so on.
Those examples represent the extremes. The rest of us are left to figure out what safety means to us, in a complicated, crowded field, with lots of competing (miss)information. There is some limited research and data out there, but it is not widely known (see below).
For my part, I really don't want to injure my knee ligaments, so I look at binding safety through that lens. Here is where my reasoning has taken me.
A binding that releases laterally at the heel, like classic tech bindings, does a better job of protecting knee ligaments, compared to bindings that only release laterally at the toe. This is the reasoning behind the Knee Binding and the new Protector binding, but it's also an coincidental advantage of classic pin bindings. So, at first, I gravitated toward classic tech bindings.
Then I realized that the truly dangerous thing about tech bindings is the metal-on-metal interface with small surface area. The release function with pin bindings is unpredictable at best: add in some snow, ice, dirt, wear, forces pushing down and sideways...and it's really a gamble that a pin binding will release when needed.
For this reason, I think that the Shift provides the best knee ligament protection of all the touring bindings out there. True, it laterally releases at the toe (so theoretically it would not be as safe as classic pin bindings) but the plastic-on-plastic interface with large surface area is far more predictable and tolerant of real world use compared to pin bindings.
Yes, the Shift is heavy, but for my tours, weight is not an issue. And if you keep the Shift adjusted, it works really well, including on piste, so you can safely ski/train with a touring set up. This is a huge safety factor! I find it crazy that so many people rarely ski on their touring gear, and then go out touring, where they will likely encounter some of the most difficult conditions of the season, on skis/boots/bindings that they haven't spend much time on relative to their standard alpine gear, probably carrying a heavy pack with tired legs, and just expect/hope/dream that they will ski competently. What a dangerous situation! Just saying.
What if I absolutely had to choose a pin binding? I would choose the Dynafit Rotation (again, see below). Yes, that's a heavy binding, but I would loose a little weight compared Shift, and I would also loose some weight going from a Gripwalk boot (for the Shift) to a non-Gripwalk boot (for the Rotation). I like the look of the new Scarpa boot coming out next year, with a Gripwalk sole integrated into the sole; it should save some weight compared to existing Gripwalk boots.
Anyway, what's the research and data I keep talking about? In a word, Skialper. Any true ski touring geek should get together the Euros, brush up on their Italian, or download a text translation app for their phone, and order a print edition of the Skialper buyer's guide. It is the best resource about touring skis, bindings, and boots in the world. No comparison.
For two years in a row, Skialper has tested multiple pin bindings for release function, using a variety of tech inserts (Dynafit, Atomic/Salomon, others). The only pin binding that consistently falls into the "green" zone of release, meaning that is releases smoothly at the determined value, with inserts from all manufacturers, is the Dynafit Rotation. There are two components to this: first, that it's the only binding that consistently falls into the green zone, and second, that it does so with a range of tech fittings. That tells me is that the extra rotation feature at the toe helps the binding overcome the natural tendency for pin bindings to bite and grab, and helps the pins ride out of the toe sockets, in a way that is different from all other pin bindings. It also tells me that this binding tolerates of changes in dimensions, specifications, angles, pressures, and so on, which will translate into safer performance in real world conditions.
So that's my ranking of the "safest" touring bindings:
1-Shift
2-Dynafit rotation
3-Classic pin bindings
4-Fritschi Vipec/Tecton
First, I'm biased. I injured my knee (ligaments) and ankle (cartilege) in a simple accident on piste with a Fritshi Vipec. The release was sticky/grabby/catchy, and the injury occured before the binding released. So I don't consider the Vipec/Tecton safe at all. On the contrary, I think it's deceptively unsafe, because people believe that it confers some saftey advantage and ski it normally, when, in fact, the release is unpredictable and inconsistent.
Second, I consider all pin bindings very risky for people who want to avoid leg injuries. That's the starting point. These bindings should not be used at the resort, and when skiing with pin bindings, one should ski with a great measure of caution and care. Don't take my word for it; listen to all the conversations out there, including from one pro skier on Blister who said, "Those bindings [pin bindings] are f***ing dangerous!"
OK, with that out of the way, I think it's important to acknowledge that "safety" means different things to different people.
For some people, it means absolutely not releasing, in any situation, for example, locking the toe above consequential terrain.
For other people, safety might mean good power transmission, elasticity, and solid ski feel, like folks using the CAST system with true alpine bindings, even ski tours with huge vertical gain in the Himalaya.
For others, safety means light gear that they can carry through long traverses, over big objectives, and so on.
Those examples represent the extremes. The rest of us are left to figure out what safety means to us, in a complicated, crowded field, with lots of competing (miss)information. There is some limited research and data out there, but it is not widely known (see below).
For my part, I really don't want to injure my knee ligaments, so I look at binding safety through that lens. Here is where my reasoning has taken me.
A binding that releases laterally at the heel, like classic tech bindings, does a better job of protecting knee ligaments, compared to bindings that only release laterally at the toe. This is the reasoning behind the Knee Binding and the new Protector binding, but it's also an coincidental advantage of classic pin bindings. So, at first, I gravitated toward classic tech bindings.
Then I realized that the truly dangerous thing about tech bindings is the metal-on-metal interface with small surface area. The release function with pin bindings is unpredictable at best: add in some snow, ice, dirt, wear, forces pushing down and sideways...and it's really a gamble that a pin binding will release when needed.
For this reason, I think that the Shift provides the best knee ligament protection of all the touring bindings out there. True, it laterally releases at the toe (so theoretically it would not be as safe as classic pin bindings) but the plastic-on-plastic interface with large surface area is far more predictable and tolerant of real world use compared to pin bindings.
Yes, the Shift is heavy, but for my tours, weight is not an issue. And if you keep the Shift adjusted, it works really well, including on piste, so you can safely ski/train with a touring set up. This is a huge safety factor! I find it crazy that so many people rarely ski on their touring gear, and then go out touring, where they will likely encounter some of the most difficult conditions of the season, on skis/boots/bindings that they haven't spend much time on relative to their standard alpine gear, probably carrying a heavy pack with tired legs, and just expect/hope/dream that they will ski competently. What a dangerous situation! Just saying.
What if I absolutely had to choose a pin binding? I would choose the Dynafit Rotation (again, see below). Yes, that's a heavy binding, but I would loose a little weight compared Shift, and I would also loose some weight going from a Gripwalk boot (for the Shift) to a non-Gripwalk boot (for the Rotation). I like the look of the new Scarpa boot coming out next year, with a Gripwalk sole integrated into the sole; it should save some weight compared to existing Gripwalk boots.
Anyway, what's the research and data I keep talking about? In a word, Skialper. Any true ski touring geek should get together the Euros, brush up on their Italian, or download a text translation app for their phone, and order a print edition of the Skialper buyer's guide. It is the best resource about touring skis, bindings, and boots in the world. No comparison.
For two years in a row, Skialper has tested multiple pin bindings for release function, using a variety of tech inserts (Dynafit, Atomic/Salomon, others). The only pin binding that consistently falls into the "green" zone of release, meaning that is releases smoothly at the determined value, with inserts from all manufacturers, is the Dynafit Rotation. There are two components to this: first, that it's the only binding that consistently falls into the green zone, and second, that it does so with a range of tech fittings. That tells me is that the extra rotation feature at the toe helps the binding overcome the natural tendency for pin bindings to bite and grab, and helps the pins ride out of the toe sockets, in a way that is different from all other pin bindings. It also tells me that this binding tolerates of changes in dimensions, specifications, angles, pressures, and so on, which will translate into safer performance in real world conditions.
So that's my ranking of the "safest" touring bindings:
1-Shift
2-Dynafit rotation
3-Classic pin bindings
4-Fritschi Vipec/Tecton
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