Alpine-Touring hybrid setup

[David]

OK, here goes.

First, I'm biased. I injured my knee (ligaments) and ankle (cartilege) in a simple accident on piste with a Fritshi Vipec. The release was sticky/grabby/catchy, and the injury occured before the binding released. So I don't consider the Vipec/Tecton safe at all. On the contrary, I think it's deceptively unsafe, because people believe that it confers some saftey advantage and ski it normally, when, in fact, the release is unpredictable and inconsistent.

Second, I consider all pin bindings very risky for people who want to avoid leg injuries. That's the starting point. These bindings should not be used at the resort, and when skiing with pin bindings, one should ski with a great measure of caution and care. Don't take my word for it; listen to all the conversations out there, including from one pro skier on Blister who said, "Those bindings [pin bindings] are f***ing dangerous!"

OK, with that out of the way, I think it's important to acknowledge that "safety" means different things to different people.

For some people, it means absolutely not releasing, in any situation, for example, locking the toe above consequential terrain.

For other people, safety might mean good power transmission, elasticity, and solid ski feel, like folks using the CAST system with true alpine bindings, even ski tours with huge vertical gain in the Himalaya.

For others, safety means light gear that they can carry through long traverses, over big objectives, and so on.

Those examples represent the extremes. The rest of us are left to figure out what safety means to us, in a complicated, crowded field, with lots of competing (miss)information. There is some limited research and data out there, but it is not widely known (see below).

For my part, I really don't want to injure my knee ligaments, so I look at binding safety through that lens. Here is where my reasoning has taken me.

A binding that releases laterally at the heel, like classic tech bindings, does a better job of protecting knee ligaments, compared to bindings that only release laterally at the toe. This is the reasoning behind the Knee Binding and the new Protector binding, but it's also an coincidental advantage of classic pin bindings. So, at first, I gravitated toward classic tech bindings.

Then I realized that the truly dangerous thing about tech bindings is the metal-on-metal interface with small surface area. The release function with pin bindings is unpredictable at best: add in some snow, ice, dirt, wear, forces pushing down and sideways...and it's really a gamble that a pin binding will release when needed.

For this reason, I think that the Shift provides the best knee ligament protection of all the touring bindings out there. True, it laterally releases at the toe (so theoretically it would not be as safe as classic pin bindings) but the plastic-on-plastic interface with large surface area is far more predictable and tolerant of real world use compared to pin bindings.

Yes, the Shift is heavy, but for my tours, weight is not an issue. And if you keep the Shift adjusted, it works really well, including on piste, so you can safely ski/train with a touring set up. This is a huge safety factor! I find it crazy that so many people rarely ski on their touring gear, and then go out touring, where they will likely encounter some of the most difficult conditions of the season, on skis/boots/bindings that they haven't spend much time on relative to their standard alpine gear, probably carrying a heavy pack with tired legs, and just expect/hope/dream that they will ski competently. What a dangerous situation! Just saying.

What if I absolutely had to choose a pin binding? I would choose the Dynafit Rotation (again, see below). Yes, that's a heavy binding, but I would loose a little weight compared Shift, and I would also loose some weight going from a Gripwalk boot (for the Shift) to a non-Gripwalk boot (for the Rotation). I like the look of the new Scarpa boot coming out next year, with a Gripwalk sole integrated into the sole; it should save some weight compared to existing Gripwalk boots.

Anyway, what's the research and data I keep talking about? In a word, Skialper. Any true ski touring geek should get together the Euros, brush up on their Italian, or download a text translation app for their phone, and order a print edition of the Skialper buyer's guide. It is the best resource about touring skis, bindings, and boots in the world. No comparison.

For two years in a row, Skialper has tested multiple pin bindings for release function, using a variety of tech inserts (Dynafit, Atomic/Salomon, others). The only pin binding that consistently falls into the "green" zone of release, meaning that is releases smoothly at the determined value, with inserts from all manufacturers, is the Dynafit Rotation. There are two components to this: first, that it's the only binding that consistently falls into the green zone, and second, that it does so with a range of tech fittings. That tells me is that the extra rotation feature at the toe helps the binding overcome the natural tendency for pin bindings to bite and grab, and helps the pins ride out of the toe sockets, in a way that is different from all other pin bindings. It also tells me that this binding tolerates of changes in dimensions, specifications, angles, pressures, and so on, which will translate into safer performance in real world conditions.

So that's my ranking of the "safest" touring bindings:

1-Shift
2-Dynafit rotation
3-Classic pin bindings
4-Fritschi Vipec/Tecton

I don't tour much living in Michigan but this is another reason why I like my Daymakers.

 

[slow-line-fast]

@Bruno Schull thanks for pointing out Skialper… is the buyer’s guide only in print? Can’t seem to find an electronic option.

In my case I long ago went with Fritschi as they were the only one working with DIN release values, which seemed good. Have never been injured on them over various models, which doesn’t necessarily mean anything in general, but is a huge factor in the mind of a superstitious skier such as me. Have had my share of mechanical annoyances but nothing too tedious. With the tectons - go into walk mode manually holding the stopper, no stomping.

 

[Doug Briggs]

A couple of things:

Atomic/Salomon Shift AFD: there are minor clicks and major clicks associated with raising the AFD on this binding. You should raise the AFD until you get a major click then test for spacing. Any of the minor clicks won't result in a reliable AFD setting.

Pin bindings: they offer nowhere near the reliability of release that an alpine binding offers.

I have had Kingpins release at the toe and at the heel in situations where it was desireable. I have not had any issues with failure to release. I use Kingpins in the resort a lot as they are on what are now my rock skis. I ski hard on them on 98 mm waist skis on hard pack and soft snow without any concern of releasing unnecessarily. I get big angles on them and they hold me in without loss of performance.

 

[Primoz]

Personally I have absolutely no intention to use touring gear on piste. Sorry regardless of what binding, but I do not trust those few wires and pines... I know this might sound weird, especially considering all my backcountry skiing in no fall zones, where skis need to stick to your feet or you are dead (literally dead, as crashing down 50-60 degree several 100m long couloir means pretty certain death), but I really have absolutely zero trust to pin bindings for skiing on piste, at 80+km/h and ice. So for piste, even for freeride, where I use lifts, I always have additional pair(s) of skis with proper bindings on them. Not to mention for skiing race boots feel much better then touring boots.
I know it's most likely a bit different for me, with 10 pairs of skis in basement (not counting xc skis here ), then it might be for someone with single pair, but for me, Shift was never really an option. Too heavy, with too many negative things for touring, and certainly doesn't fit under my definition of "proper binding" for on piste skiing. So if I go touring, I have my list of requirements, and with that, I take into account, that safety and proper release is not going to be anywhere near what I expect from proper binding. For on piste skiing, regardless if it's freeride or skiing race skis on ice, I have different set of requirements, and for that, none of touring bindings, including Shift, will work either. So with more then single pair of skis, I would always go with different set for touring and different set (and different binding) for skiing on lifts. But that's just me, and I see plenty of people skiing those bunch of wires and pins on lifts.

 

[Bruno Schull]

@slow-line-fast--Skialper has gone back and forth over the years--print only, print and digital, Italian only, Italian and English. This year, as far as I know, it's print only, Italian only. Somehow, I respect that! It's worth it, even if your Italian is non existent, or limited, like mine. With context, you can understand the graphics, tables, information, and so on.

@Doug--Thanks for the tip about the Shift AFD. Once I adjusted mine, it has stayed perfectly in place. The Kingpin is interesting. You have solid, "Alpine-like" heel hold, with a lateral heel release. I think it offers better power transmission compared to a classic pin binding, and, in that sense (power transmission and ski control) is a safe binding. The point to bear in mind is that the heel releasing when needed is dependent on the toe pins riding smoothly out of the toe sockets, and that's completely unpredictable and variable. So, in that sense (smooth release when needed) the binding is not safe. For me, skiing Kingpins on piste at high speeds and edge angles would be strictly verboten, because I would have absolutely no confidence in the release function. But, as I said, this is all about personal use and priorities.

@Primoz--I sounds like we're definitely on the same page about the limitations of pin bindings, and how they vary from alpine bindings. We just have different uses and priorities for our equipment. I can completely see how, skiing consequential terrain, I would prioritize retention and not release--but I don't tour in that kind of terrain!

I just got back from a two-week ski vacation with my family. I usually bring all-mountain skis for use with alpine boots and bindings, and touring skis with Shifts and suitable boots. I ski both set-ups, spending time on each, the alpine gear equally on and off piste, and the touring gear mostly off piste. That gives me some time and experience with my touring gear. Then, when I go for a tour with my wife, I have some competency with the touring gear. But I definitely don't ski my touring gear the same way as my alpine gear.

I guess something that triggered me (to use a contemporary word) are the statements/assumptions in the pages above above that the Fritschi bindings are somehow "safer" than other pin bindings. I believe you were one of the people who made this statement--I'm not saying that to cal you out, just to be clear.

I would say that, because of the heel design, the Fritschi bindings offer better power transmission and ski control compared to classic pin bindings. And the toe design might offer some elasticity, again improving power transmission and ski control. I put might in italics because I am highly doubtful that, when skiing, the carriage in the toe is actually moving back and forth and providing elasticity. But in terms of release function, the Fritschi bindings have a lateral toe release, which is not "knee ligament friendly" in the best of cases. And when you factor in the mechanically complicated sliding carriage, the folding wings, and the toe pins and sockets...I think you are left with a rough, sticky, grabby, catchy, unpredictable toe release, which was my experience, and which is supported by the Skialper tests.

So ski the Fritschi bindings for the power transmission, control, and other features. But do not ski them with the illusion that they are protecting your knees.

 

[Primoz]

@Bruno Schull I definitely wrote that. But I hope it was understood properly, if not, let me explain. I have absolutely no real life experience with Fritschi. I was looking for new binding for new pair I had, and based on documentation I ASSUMED they are safer then let's say ATK, Dynafit or other pin bindings, due toe lateral release. I have no real life info, no tests, certainly no scientific tests to prove that. It was assumption, that extra functionality can't be bad, and honestly I still think so. I believe you have bad experience with it, but it's not proof they don't work. It didn't work in your case, but on one single case, even if personal, is hard to establish some general rule. Every single friend who had them, and had bad experience with their durability is something that made me go away, regardless of what I though about their safety. If anyone cares, I ended on ATK Freerider 14.
Another thing to be straight too... at least I personally have absolutely no illusion that any binding (pin or "real") is protecting my knees. The only one protecting my knees is me and the way I decide to ski. I hope that bindings will release when needed (I don't take this with 100% certainty, but more like 50/50) and I hope they will stay clipped in when needed too (I take this with slightly more certainty then hope to release when needed), but I don't expect them to save me from anything if I will do something stupid. The only thing is, that I hope they work as good as possible, and that's reason why I always ski on piste with real bindings and use pin bindings only for touring. It's that I trust alpine bindings more then pin bindings, and, if I can pick between two bindings, I want slightly higher percentage of certainty that they will work as they should when needed. Do I have some real data for this trust? No. Is it really like I think it is? I have no idea. But as long as it's in my head it work for me, and just for me

 

[Rod9301]

OK, here goes.

First, I'm biased. I injured my knee (ligaments) and ankle (cartilege) in a simple accident on piste with a Fritshi Vipec. The release was sticky/grabby/catchy, and the injury occured before the binding released. So I don't consider the Vipec/Tecton safe at all. On the contrary, I think it's deceptively unsafe, because people believe that it confers some saftey advantage and ski it normally, when, in fact, the release is unpredictable and inconsistent.

Second, I consider all pin bindings very risky for people who want to avoid leg injuries. That's the starting point. These bindings should not be used at the resort, and when skiing with pin bindings, one should ski with a great measure of caution and care. Don't take my word for it; listen to all the conversations out there, including from one pro skier on Blister who said, "Those bindings [pin bindings] are f***ing dangerous!"

OK, with that out of the way, I think it's important to acknowledge that "safety" means different things to different people.

For some people, it means absolutely not releasing, in any situation, for example, locking the toe above consequential terrain.

For other people, safety might mean good power transmission, elasticity, and solid ski feel, like folks using the CAST system with true alpine bindings, even ski tours with huge vertical gain in the Himalaya.

For others, safety means light gear that they can carry through long traverses, over big objectives, and so on.

Those examples represent the extremes. The rest of us are left to figure out what safety means to us, in a complicated, crowded field, with lots of competing (miss)information. There is some limited research and data out there, but it is not widely known (see below).

For my part, I really don't want to injure my knee ligaments, so I look at binding safety through that lens. Here is where my reasoning has taken me.

A binding that releases laterally at the heel, like classic tech bindings, does a better job of protecting knee ligaments, compared to bindings that only release laterally at the toe. This is the reasoning behind the Knee Binding and the new Protector binding, but it's also an coincidental advantage of classic pin bindings. So, at first, I gravitated toward classic tech bindings.

Then I realized that the truly dangerous thing about tech bindings is the metal-on-metal interface with small surface area. The release function with pin bindings is unpredictable at best: add in some snow, ice, dirt, wear, forces pushing down and sideways...and it's really a gamble that a pin binding will release when needed.

For this reason, I think that the Shift provides the best knee ligament protection of all the touring bindings out there. True, it laterally releases at the toe (so theoretically it would not be as safe as classic pin bindings) but the plastic-on-plastic interface with large surface area is far more predictable and tolerant of real world use compared to pin bindings.

Yes, the Shift is heavy, but for my tours, weight is not an issue. And if you keep the Shift adjusted, it works really well, including on piste, so you can safely ski/train with a touring set up. This is a huge safety factor! I find it crazy that so many people rarely ski on their touring gear, and then go out touring, where they will likely encounter some of the most difficult conditions of the season, on skis/boots/bindings that they haven't spend much time on relative to their standard alpine gear, probably carrying a heavy pack with tired legs, and just expect/hope/dream that they will ski competently. What a dangerous situation! Just saying.

What if I absolutely had to choose a pin binding? I would choose the Dynafit Rotation (again, see below). Yes, that's a heavy binding, but I would loose a little weight compared Shift, and I would also loose some weight going from a Gripwalk boot (for the Shift) to a non-Gripwalk boot (for the Rotation). I like the look of the new Scarpa boot coming out next year, with a Gripwalk sole integrated into the sole; it should save some weight compared to existing Gripwalk boots.

Anyway, what's the research and data I keep talking about? In a word, Skialper. Any true ski touring geek should get together the Euros, brush up on their Italian, or download a text translation app for their phone, and order a print edition of the Skialper buyer's guide. It is the best resource about touring skis, bindings, and boots in the world. No comparison.

For two years in a row, Skialper has tested multiple pin bindings for release function, using a variety of tech inserts (Dynafit, Atomic/Salomon, others). The only pin binding that consistently falls into the "green" zone of release, meaning that is releases smoothly at the determined value, with inserts from all manufacturers, is the Dynafit Rotation. There are two components to this: first, that it's the only binding that consistently falls into the green zone, and second, that it does so with a range of tech fittings. That tells me is that the extra rotation feature at the toe helps the binding overcome the natural tendency for pin bindings to bite and grab, and helps the pins ride out of the toe sockets, in a way that is different from all other pin bindings. It also tells me that this binding tolerates of changes in dimensions, specifications, angles, pressures, and so on, which will translate into safer performance in real world conditions.

So that's my ranking of the "safest" touring bindings:

1-Shift
2-Dynafit rotation
3-Classic pin bindings
4-Fritschi Vipec/Tecton

Your mind is set, but you should know that a binding is not meant to protect ligaments or tendons, only bones.

 

[Rod9301]

@slow-line-fast--Skialper has gone back and forth over the years--print only, print and digital, Italian only, Italian and English. This year, as far as I know, it's print only, Italian only. Somehow, I respect that! It's worth it, even if your Italian is non existent, or limited, like mine. With context, you can understand the graphics, tables, information, and so on.

@Doug--Thanks for the tip about the Shift AFD. Once I adjusted mine, it has stayed perfectly in place. The Kingpin is interesting. You have solid, "Alpine-like" heel hold, with a lateral heel release. I think it offers better power transmission compared to a classic pin binding, and, in that sense (power transmission and ski control) is a safe binding. The point to bear in mind is that the heel releasing when needed is dependent on the toe pins riding smoothly out of the toe sockets, and that's completely unpredictable and variable. So, in that sense (smooth release when needed) the binding is not safe. For me, skiing Kingpins on piste at high speeds and edge angles would be strictly verboten, because I would have absolutely no confidence in the release function. But, as I said, this is all about personal use and priorities.

@Primoz--I sounds like we're definitely on the same page about the limitations of pin bindings, and how they vary from alpine bindings. We just have different uses and priorities for our equipment. I can completely see how, skiing consequential terrain, I would prioritize retention and not release--but I don't tour in that kind of terrain!

I just got back from a two-week ski vacation with my family. I usually bring all-mountain skis for use with alpine boots and bindings, and touring skis with Shifts and suitable boots. I ski both set-ups, spending time on each, the alpine gear equally on and off piste, and the touring gear mostly off piste. That gives me some time and experience with my touring gear. Then, when I go for a tour with my wife, I have some competency with the touring gear. But I definitely don't ski my touring gear the same way as my alpine gear.

I guess something that triggered me (to use a contemporary word) are the statements/assumptions in the pages above above that the Fritschi bindings are somehow "safer" than other pin bindings. I believe you were one of the people who made this statement--I'm not saying that to cal you out, just to be clear.

I would say that, because of the heel design, the Fritschi bindings offer better power transmission and ski control compared to classic pin bindings. And the toe design might offer some elasticity, again improving power transmission and ski control. I put might in italics because I am highly doubtful that, when skiing, the carriage in the toe is actually moving back and forth and providing elasticity. But in terms of release function, the Fritschi bindings have a lateral toe release, which is not "knee ligament friendly" in the best of cases. And when you factor in the mechanically complicated sliding carriage, the folding wings, and the toe pins and sockets...I think you are left with a rough, sticky, grabby, catchy, unpredictable toe release, which was my experience, and which is supported by the Skialper tests.

So ski the Fritschi bindings for the power transmission, control, and other features. But do not ski them with the illusion that they are protecting your knees.

Not true that the kingpin offer better power transmission then all pin bindings.
The mtn with brakes offer great power transmission, because the heel rests on the brake, not suspended on the pins.

 

[Bruno Schull]

@Rod--I think most of us know exactly what we want bindings to do: hold the skis on our feet, and release when needed, before we break our bones or tear out ligaments.

That said, in any discussion of binding release function, folks bring up other aspects of binding design. It's true that modern bindings were developed to reduce the incidence of lower leg fractures. However, even if we acknowledge that the primary function of bindings is retention, and that, historically, reducing fractures has been a concern, it seems short sighted not to develop technology to lessen the incidence and severity of other kinds of knee injuries; ligaments, soft tissue, cartilage, tibial plateau fractures, and so on.

It's not as if we don't have an understanding of how to do mitigate these injuries--what's holding the industry back is economics and inertia. That's why I applaud the new Protector alpine binding project. This binding, or something like it, is the way forward.

Regarding Kingpin--I've never skied it, so I can't comment from personal experience, but it's hard to imagine that that heel lever, and the elasticity and forward pressure in the heel, don't confer greater control over and above that of a classic pin binding. Also, it appears that the boot sits solidly on the brake and brake-mounted AFD, no? That would appear to be a rather solid connection.

In Blister's very good touring binding comparison, the Kingpin earned high marks for power transmission, while the Salomon MTN was one of the less-direct-connection bindings that they tested. Your experience might be different.

For what it's worth, I like the MTN binding. It's a simple and clean design, especially the manual brake.

 

[Doug Briggs]

The Tyrolia Protector professes that it will help reduce the incidence of ACL and related soft tissue injuries. That will be interesting to follow as hype meets reality. I will certainly get them ASAP as I work at a shop that carries Tyrolia. I'm excited for more options in the industry for safer bindings. I certainly agree that more brands need to step up to produce more knee friendly bindings.

 

[charlier]

I have used the Amer MTN binding for 3+ years on my summer volcano and winter touring skis. The binding are simple and trouble free. If needed, the MTN brakes are perhaps the best-in-class for tech bindings. It seems to me that Kingpins are heavy, with a pin toe that has all the drawbacks for reliable boot release. I have yet to see any tech binding that holds up to repeated and aggressive skiing with a ski area (bumps, thrashed and set-up powder, etc), let alone the lack of dependa

Many of my pro-patroller friends use Amer MNC Shift bindings (brief uphill skinning for control work or rescue). With proper use and professional mounting, the MNC Shifts are dependable hybrid bindings with TÜV certification and over 40 mm of elastic travel. With a heavy pack, deep powder snow and <110 powder skis, I prefer using a Shift hybrid set-up rather than the Amer MTN bindings. I guess if I was skiing in an area with easy slack country access, I might use a shift binding on alpine skis.

 

[ZionPow]

Most of my pro patroller co-workers are using the Shift binding for work. The AMER MTN binding is used primarily for touring and not for aggressive downhill skiing at the resort. I switched to the Shift bindings this season and I am very pleased. It is the best solution for me as they are very solid for downhill and I trust the release mechanism reliability.

 

[neonorchid]

Any experience with and or know anything about Ski Trab Titan Vario ll Tech Binding? Couldn't find much on TGR forum. @Primoz @Analisa @Slim @Doug Briggs ...@ anyone else?

 

[Doug Briggs]

I only know what I just gleaned from watching the video. I have not seen the binding in person, so my thoughts below are just first impressions based soley on the video presentation.

I like the concept of the toe piece, independent jaws seems likea good idea.

The heel functions seem like a step backwards, though. Twisting the heel piece to set the climbing aid with the hand, as shown in the video, is less than ideal when you are in the binding. I don't see a hole for using a pole to turn the heel.

There is no heel platform, but rather a bead on the ski stopper lever. Relying on the bead and the two heel pins to transfer lateral movements to the ski seems weak.

Lack of adjustment of DIN but rather having to swap heel pieces means your release value may or may not be ideal for you. It will also require retailers to carry more bindings to be able to match a binding to a skier's DIN setting. Not a desireable situation for retailers.

I find the solutions to ski stopper friction and different DINs to be inelegant. I'm also not a weight weanie so my emphasis is on retention and downhill performance. YMMV.

 

[Primoz]

@neonorchid I avoid Ski Trab as far away as possible. It's mainly race skimo stuff which would basically mean for me, that I rather take my xc skis and go out with them All their stuff, from skis to bindings and rest of skimo equipment is super light (and fast) but not something I'm looking for for ski touring, which means I'm not really interested in their stuff, so no info from me regarding this.

 

[James]

Any experience with and or know anything about Ski Trab Titan Vario ll Tech Binding? Couldn't find much on TGR forum. @Primoz @Analisa @Slim @Doug Briggs ...@ anyone else?

No idea. They seem the type to stay up all night thinking of ways to make a binding out of a matchstick. Looks like they did it with a titanium coffee stirrer.

But this guy used Skitrab for his 85mm light setup. But then it’s light boots like Dynastar F1LT around 1100 gms.


Or this guy has his light setup with Kastle 65mm 165cm skis. 1.5kgs per foot all in.

“Turn initiation is as smooth as an alpine ski and the edge grip is very powerful.”

Smoking some good stuff!

20/21 Kaestle Ski Touring Dream Quiver - The Backcountry Ski Touring Blog

Overview of three Kaestle quiver slots from their 20/21 lineup featuring the lightweight the updated TX65, TX87 and TX103.

www.wildsnow.com

 

[James]

So on the end I went with ATK (Freerider 14), and well... now I'm fine with it, but first month or so it was not too nice either. On first tour, I got 2 releases without any reason. Ski just unclipped, and I wasn't even pushing hard. After that I changed some settings, so bindings are now set the way tech from ATK told me to set them, not the way ATK manual is telling you to set them, and now I'm fine. They release when they need to, and they stay on otherwise. But it took me more then month to get my head sorted, as every single turn I was thinking if my skis will stay on or not.

What was the change in adjustment the tech told you? Been a lot of talk of early binding pre releases on tgr. On the fence about Atk. Interesting company though. They make themselves most of the major parts. All their suppliers are within 50 km apparently.

ATK Bindings, Part 1: Brand Origins & the Evolution of Tech Bindings (Ep.199)

We talk with ATK's CEO about the unique origins of the family-owned, Italian binding manufacturer, how it's evolved, and much more.

blisterreview.com

Shift was never really an option. Too heavy, with too many negative things for touring, and certainly doesn't fit under my definition of "proper binding" for on piste skiing.

Definitely agree with the on piste comment. I’m quesy every time I take it on hard snow. So much so that I didn’t even ski last season, partly because of a bad snow year. Moguls I’ve completely avoided. The Marker PT I’d trust but it’s so heavy you really have to have a specific use. I could see it as a European take lift, then skin 15-60 minutes option.

 

[Doug Briggs]

What was the change in adjustment the tech told you? Been a lot of talk of early binding pre releases on tgr. On the fence about Atk. Interesting company though. They make themselves most of the major parts. All their suppliers are within 50 km apparently.

ATK Bindings, Part 1: Brand Origins & the Evolution of Tech Bindings (Ep.199)

We talk with ATK's CEO about the unique origins of the family-owned, Italian binding manufacturer, how it's evolved, and much more.

blisterreview.com

Definitely agree with the on piste comment. I’m quesy every time I take it on hard snow. So much so that I didn’t even ski last season, partly because of a bad snow year. Moguls I’ve completely avoided. The Marker PT I’d trust but it’s so heavy you really have to have a specific use. I could see it as a European take lift, then skin 15-60 minutes option.

I run my Shifts hard all season on piste, from hard snow to soft. No problems at all. They work as desired and expected.

 

[Rod9301]

I run my Shifts hard all season on piste, from hard snow to soft. No problems at all. They work as desired and expected.

Just because you can it doesn't mean you should. Get an alpine binding and be safe.

 

[Doug Briggs]

Shifts aren't an alpine binding?

They tour up, they alpine down. They test fine in a VT calibrator. They stay on my feet when I want them to. The come off when I need them to.