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Gear Alpride E1 airbag technology

Alexzn

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Couple of questions for people familiar with Alpride E1 airbag system:

1. My new E1-equipped pack (Osprey Soelden Pro) pushes my head forward when it inflates. Is that a design feature of the e1 system? My friend who has an Alpride-made pack also reports the same behavior.

2. The manual says that the bag should start to slowly deflate after 3 minutes. Neither my, not my friends' pack does this after being deployed at home.

Thanks!
 

Slim

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I have never had any in my hands, but I would say, that deflate statement might be a poor translation?
I think the standards require it to keep inflating for 3 minutes, I think that might be what they mean?

As far as the head position, that sounds problematic. Maybe to do with the fit?

Would you mind putting up a bunch of pics or a video? I am interested in that pack, but like most, it’s hard to know how it works for packing bd unpacking. Showing how much gear you can pack in and take out, while shovel and probe are in the pack is my biggest question.
 

nemesis256

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I have the same problem with mine with pushing the head forward. It's really uncomfortable, especially with a helmet since your head is bigger. On my pack if I don't tighten up the upper part of the shoulder straps so much, it improves the head problem, but then the pack is uncomfortable to wear because the weight is not against your back. Haven't figured out a better solution. But as a friend of mine pointed out, if you have to use the pack for real, the comfort of your neck and head is not something you'll be worried about.

Mine does deflate, but emphasis on "slowly", it takes a long time before it's noticeable. It's not like it's going to leave an air pocket.

I'm not a big fan of the pack I have (Scott) that uses this system. The pocket layout is a bit weird, feels small even though it's around 40 liters, and it's not "rigid" enough so the bag doesn't hold its shape with the pockets open.
 

Slim

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Hmm, so an Osprey pack, a Scott pack and an Alpride pack all push the head forward? That seems like it is in the design of the E1 system, if it is present with 3 people and 3 sizes.

Too bad, I was very interested in the E1 system packs, since we fly to ski most of the time.
 
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Primoz

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I'm just thinking of changing my ABS for next season, and most likely option is actually Scott E1 40l. One reason is, that at least from technical side, I like this Alpride E1 system, and second is, that I would get really good price. As there's basically zero real user reviews, I would actually like to hear some more about it @nemesis256 if you feel like writting :)
On one side, I agree that in case of emergency comfort of the neck and head is not most important thing, but I still hope, I would be able to ski out, or at least try to if I would ever be in avi (hoping I can keep my statistics as it is for last 10 years or so with zero avalanches). And in such case, not receiving hit in your head from back would help. But I have absolutely no idea how much of a hit/push it is and how much it pushes your head down.
 

Slim

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@Alexzn ,
would you mind taking some pics or a video of the Soelden 32 packed up fully, and then how easy it is to get a layer or Waterbottle out?

I am considering getting one, but haven’t seen any pictures/video of it in use, where you can actually see how easy it is to use, and how much fits in there.

Because Minnesota isn’t exactly a hotspot for avalanches, I would be ordering it unseen.
 
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Alexzn

Alexzn

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I can try that, but it is a panel loader, so it is as easy or as difficult to get in as any panel loader. Osprey knows how to make a good daypack, so I can tell you that it is a pretty solid carry. I do remember a weird "suitcase" main zipper configuration, where the zipper opens away from the ends. I was also a bit surprised to see plastic adjustment buckles on the pack straps, but I also really never heard of modern ABS plastic buckles breaking. The hipbelt buckle is proper metal, but feels a bit small.

I have honestly not tested the pack in the field yet, so I cannot say how those work, but in theory that would allow you more opportunities to get into the pack when the skis are attached. I am coming from a BCA Float 17, which was extremely tight, so the Osprey seems pretty spacious in comparison. I'd say it seems like a 25-28L pack as opposed to a 32L designation. But for day tours in warm Tahoe winters and springs it seems more than enough. As I mentioned, my buddy has a Scott's version and really likes it.

P.S. Electric avy packs are the future, I would not buy a canister one again ever. I had an issue with the BCA canister in of all places Chamonix (!), where as it turns out you cannot charge a BCA canister. Luckily some store owner (bless his heart, if I ever go back, I will only purchase from his business) took pity and essentially exchanged us empty cylinders for full ones. Knowing that a change behind your back is the last one for the trip is not the best reassurance.

P.P.S. I heard rumors that Arcteryx is redesigning their Voltair packs, which were slick, but very heavy. If they do their homework, that has the potential to be the best any pack on the market.
 

Mattadvproject

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I can try that, but it is a panel loader, so it is as easy or as difficult to get in as any panel loader. Osprey knows how to make a good daypack, so I can tell you that it is a pretty solid carry. I do remember a weird "suitcase" main zipper configuration, where the zipper opens away from the ends. I was also a bit surprised to see plastic adjustment buckles on the pack straps, but I also really never heard of modern ABS plastic buckles breaking. The hipbelt buckle is proper metal, but feels a bit small.

I have honestly not tested the pack in the field yet, so I cannot say how those work, but in theory that would allow you more opportunities to get into the pack when the skis are attached. I am coming from a BCA Float 17, which was extremely tight, so the Osprey seems pretty spacious in comparison. I'd say it seems like a 25-28L pack as opposed to a 32L designation. But for day tours in warm Tahoe winters and springs it seems more than enough. As I mentioned, my buddy has a Scott's version and really likes it.

P.S. Electric avy packs are the future, I would not buy a canister one again ever. I had an issue with the BCA canister in of all places Chamonix (!), where as it turns out you cannot charge a BCA canister. Luckily some store owner (bless his heart, if I ever go back, I will only purchase from his business) took pity and essentially exchanged us empty cylinders for full ones. Knowing that a change behind your back is the last one for the trip is not the best reassurance.

P.P.S. I heard rumors that Arcteryx is redesigning their Voltair packs, which were slick, but very heavy. If they do their homework, that has the potential to be the best any pack on the market.

I think if Arc'teryx can drop the price of their packs, then they might sell more. To me, their pricing for their current model is way too high..... for the Voltair 30 at $1,300 is up there, but then they sting you with having to buy the charger ($60) and a battery ($320) on top. Ouch! $1,680 not including shipping..... That's going to be tough if they keep that same pricing point with their new packs. I have the BD JetForce Saga 40L and that has been a great pack. I'm probably going to sell that soon and get the new JetForce Pro 35L. It's a little lighter and has the ability to update the firmware from home I believe. When they are back in stock in early October, I think I will be buying one.....
 

SBrown

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I bought a Scott, but I have not tested yet. I got it solely on the advice of my brother, who is an avalanche pro, so I just trusted him. It’s September, so soon I should be checking it out and will report back.
 

Slim

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Which Scott did you get?
I bought a Scott, but I have not tested yet. I got it solely on the advice of my brother, who is an avalanche pro, so I just trusted him. It’s September, so soon I should be checking it out and will report back.
 

Slim

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@Alexzn and @nemesis256 , what would be really useful to see/read in a review/photo/videois how easy it is to get things in and out of the pack.

Many ski packs, and especially airbag packs, have several items (airbag, inflation system, shovel and probe, goggles) squishing into the same volume (even if they have separate compartments). This makes it hard to add or remove items out in the field.

Also, helmet carriers or compression straps can block access to zippers or pockets.
The final piece of the ‘usability’ of a pack is removing and replacing items without taking the pack completely off. This is especcially important for airbag packs, because the safety waist buckle and leg strap make taking them off even harder than normal backpacks.

For example, here are three ‘actions’ that don’t always go as easy as they should:

  • Putting shovel blade, shaft or probe back after use
  • stuffing a jacket into the pack, ideally without taking it off.
  • taking out and putting back in a waterbottle/thermos, ideally without taking the pack off.
I will put up a review of my Mammut Protection Light showing some of this ‘real world functionality‘
 

Novaloafah

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Curiousity here since It seems unlikely as a very casual resort skier I will ever have one of these airbags. I'm guessing the bag is emergency use so does it matter if it pushes your head forward when it activates. Am pretty familiar with LPSV (life preserver survival vests) and most do give your helmet a push on initial activation but shouldn't hold your head forward very far if it is fitted correctly. You can also manually deflate (or inflate) if needed.
Again just curious.
 

James

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The wrap around style airbag is supposed to also protect your head from impact.

One in Spanish-
83199F35-3E5F-49D5-A95B-4CD87F5D6A9E.png
 
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Novaloafah

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Thanks for the pic. Interesting bit of safety gear. So it deflates and if you are buried you have some space and hopefully no head/neck trauma.
 

James

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Thanks for the pic. Interesting bit of safety gear. So it deflates and if you are buried you have some space and hopefully no head/neck trauma.
It helps you stay on the surface or near the surface of the flowing snow.
You bring up an interesting point of being buried though. Depends on the system whether the gas is breathable.
The Mammut Snowpulse system, used in a number of makers, and the BCA system uses compressed air. So you can get it filled at a dive shop. Though there can be problems filling some cartridges as @Alexn pointed out. (If going to Europe and not electric- go Mammut (Swiss))

But some use gases which are not breathable. The advantage is supposed to be you can fly with them, since they don’t support fire like compressed air. The US might still be problematic.
2E2CF459-321B-4748-8F2A-98DE804A2D97.jpeg

Don’t know how much an issue that is. Both compressed air cartridges and these pull in ambient air when inflating. So whether the resulting mixture in the argon/CO2 bag is brethable, no idea.

 
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Alexzn

Alexzn

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@Alexzn and @nemesis256 , what would be really useful to see/read in a review/photo/videois how easy it is to get things in and out of the pack.

Many ski packs, and especially airbag packs, have several items (airbag, inflation system, shovel and probe, goggles) squishing into the same volume (even if they have separate compartments). This makes it hard to add or remove items out in the field.

Also, helmet carriers or compression straps can block access to zippers or pockets.
The final piece of the ‘usability’ of a pack is removing and replacing items without taking the pack completely off. This is especcially important for airbag packs, because the safety waist buckle and leg strap make taking them off even harder than normal backpacks.

For example, here are three ‘actions’ that don’t always go as easy as they should:

  • Putting shovel blade, shaft or probe back after use
  • stuffing a jacket into the pack, ideally without taking it off.
  • taking out and putting back in a waterbottle/thermos, ideally without taking the pack off.
I will put up a review of my Mammut Protection Light showing some of this ‘real world functionality‘
I can try to take some photos, but all my winter gear is stored in the closet :).

The avy tools compartment on the Osprey is great, it is accessed with a J-shape zipper that you can get to even if you have skis on the pack. That's really good from the safety point of view.

The suitcase style zipper does allow you to tuck in a jacket from both sides of that zipper, that's convenient. I have no idea how you can put a jacket in the pack without taking it off, I am just not that dexterous :)

Water bottle is a good question, there is a side pocket, but I have not tried putting my KleanKanteen bottle in there. I still doubt you can do that without taking the pack off. My impression of the Osprey is that it is a fairly simplified pack, which I like, because any elaborate pocket system ends up designed for a specific user that inevitably has different needs than you. This is a common issue with a lot of Arcteryx gear where they design it seemingly for a specific athlete.
 

Slim

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@Slim are you specifically asking about the Osprey pack in the OP? Because I have a Scott one:
I was asking both of you(and others, like @SBrown ) to review your specific packs.
Some people (like @Primoz ) were interested in the the Scott Pack.

Personally, I am most interested in the Osprey, since I can get it heavily discounted.

It is often so hard to find real use foto’s/videos. So often, the review is wearing the pack, meaning you barely see anything! Or the pack is empty, or only has the shovel and probe in there.

I will review our Mammut Protection Airbags packs too.
 

Primoz

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@Slim are you specifically asking about the Osprey pack in the OP? Because I have a Scott one:
I'm interested in exactly this Scott :) Osprey is pretty much impossible to get here, while friend's store is official Scott dealer here. Seeing it is one thing, and that's not a problem, to do, but real life experience is another, and there's very very little of real life reviews on web. That's why I would be interested how it works in real life use. Currently I have ABS Powder with 26L zipon. It's anything but perfect, but on the other hand, I got used to it, and it works ok. But it's quite old already, so it will slowly be time to change it, and while I really don't like Pieps electro one, this Alpride stuff looks, at least based on all tech specifications, as pretty much only way to go.
 

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