Alterra Mountain Company Announces Transformational Changes at Four Marquee Destinations

[Wasatchman]

I was coming here to share my experience but David summed it up pretty well.

It's interesting to hear the experience by you and @David Chaus . Perhaps Alterra is a little more hands off than Vail as far as how each property runs. I know in general that employees at the Canyons and Solitude/DV didn't like the added beuracracy that occurred when Vail and Alterra took over, respectively.

 

[David Chaus]

From a recent article talking about the importance of learning from this past year.

From Rusty Gregory
Katz’s Ikon rival, Rusty Gregory, CEO of Alterra Mountain Co., has also spoken about the future, saying he predicts “guests signing up for spots in a virtual queue for the gondola and being able to purchase goggles in the ski shop while awaiting their turn.” Alterra is committing $30-million to increase its digital offerings, allowing not just virtual lift lines but the ability to “hail” a ski instructor on-demand, as you would an Uber.

Interesting....imagine being an instructor who is stationed at the top of a lift, similar to ski patrol, gets the call that someone halfway down the slope has just paid for a mogul lesson, meets the skier and verifies confirmation. In the course of a lesson upselling a pair of goggles (or lenses) to improve the student's visibility, as well as heated socks, a boot fitting session, and a deposit on a pair of skis. And a reservation for the best place to grab a turkey club for lunch.

 

[Tricia]

It's interesting to hear the experience by you and @David Chaus . Perhaps Alterra is a little more hands off than Vail as far as how each property runs. I know in general that employees at the Canyons and Solitude/DV didn't like the added beuracracy that occurred when Vail and Alterra took over, respectively.

I'll try but I probably won't explain it clearly, my understanding is Alterra was formed with a specific group of resorts, mostly by SkiCo (Aspen) and KSL (Squaw/Alpine), then they acquired other resorts(like Mammoth and Steamboat), and partnered with other resorts (like Jackson Hole, Deer Valley and Big Sky)
The intent was to offer a premium product without changing the culture of the individual resorts.

The ownership of certain resorts is where I get foggy. Does Alterra own Copper and WinterPark (and the like)?? Unlimited skiing at those places, unlike Big Sky, JH and DV.

I sincerely feel that places like Squaw are on track to make improvements as they were even if Alterra didn't happen, while Mammoth is getting an injection of funding to make improvements afforded because of Alterra.

*Resorts named are examples, not necessarily exclusively those in question.

 

[Tricia]

Dug up this interview with Andy Wirth from 5 years ago.

 

[fatbob]

From a recent article talking about the importance of learning from this past year.

From Rusty Gregory
Katz’s Ikon rival, Rusty Gregory, CEO of Alterra Mountain Co., has also spoken about the future, saying he predicts “guests signing up for spots in a virtual queue for the gondola and being able to purchase goggles in the ski shop while awaiting their turn.” Alterra is committing $30-million to increase its digital offerings, allowing not just virtual lift lines but the ability to “hail” a ski instructor on-demand, as you would an Uber.

That sounds part slick, part scary.

Great to be able to order up a burger and a place in the lodge on your last chair ride before heading in.

Bit scary that you might be chased around the hill virtually by monetization opportunities. Though I guess no one bar AA members is going to object to a $3 PBR on the sundeck deal that pops up on a sunny afternoon.

There - even DVites can be even more scared - don't worry I'm sure they'll tailir the deal to $100 bottles of Veuve for you.

 

[James]

From a recent article talking about the importance of learning from this past year.

From Rusty Gregory
Katz’s Ikon rival, Rusty Gregory, CEO of Alterra Mountain Co., has also spoken about the future, saying he predicts “guests signing up for spots in a virtual queue for the gondola and being able to purchase goggles in the ski shop while awaiting their turn.” Alterra is committing $30-million to increase its digital offerings, allowing not just virtual lift lines but the ability to “hail” a ski instructor on-demand, as you would an Uber.

So excited!!
Not.
It’s a huge yawn. There’s only so many times one can take a lesson. What they’re really doing I guess is improving efficiency or more likely eliminating some supervisors with AI.

Wonder if Killington is advertising their investment in kiosks and oftware. Buy pass online, get barcode, go to kiosk, scan barcode, pass gets spit out.

Gee, buying goggles while standing in line. They can already buy them while sitting in the lodge or at home.

All of this digital stuff is leveraging and selling client data. Otherwise, how could any business justify $30million so that clients can buy goggles in a line? Has no value really to the consumer.

 

[mikel]

The ownership of certain resorts is where I get foggy. Does Alterra own Copper and WinterPark (and the like)?? Unlimited skiing at those places, unlike Big Sky, JH and DV.

Nope, Copper is still Powdr and just a partner. Winter Park is owned by the City of Denver and the county. Alterra operates Winter Park for them. Intrawest was in a partnership/agreement with WP and I guess once Alterra acquired Intrawest they just assumed the agreement.

 

[HardDaysNight]

partnered with other resorts (like Jackson Hole, Deer Valley and Big Sky)

Deer Valley is 100% owned by Alterra. The reason an Ikon pass only gets one 7 days at DV is so that Alterra can continue to sell $2,900 DV season passes!

 

[Wasatchman]

I'll try but I probably won't explain it clearly, my understanding is Alterra was formed with a specific group of resorts, mostly by SkiCo (Aspen) and KSL (Squaw/Alpine), then they acquired other resorts(like Mammoth and Steamboat), and partnered with other resorts (like Jackson Hole, Deer Valley and Big Sky)
The intent was to offer a premium product without changing the culture of the individual resorts.

The ownership of certain resorts is where I get foggy. Does Alterra own Copper and WinterPark (and the like)?? Unlimited skiing at those places, unlike Big Sky, JH and DV.

I sincerely feel that places like Squaw are on track to make improvements as they were even if Alterra didn't happen, while Mammoth is getting an injection of funding to make improvements afforded because of Alterra.

*Resorts named are examples, not necessarily exclusively those in question.

Alterra has a number of resorts they partner with but don't own (copper I believe is a partner resort owned by powdr).

We have had a good debate on PugSki at what Alterra really is trying to do, and I'm in the camp it has essentially just created another Vail with the twist of having more partner resorts. Whatever the case, I'm confident in saying that in Utah they have absolutely changed the culture at Solitude and DV as I know employees at both. Next time you're at an Alterra owned resort, ask the employees that have been around a while and personally ask them. In Utah, the overwhelming sense is that Alterra and Vail have both changed the culture after acquiring a resort.

Now one organization (perhaps Vail??) might be even be more controlling over the individual resorts than Alterra, but the overwhelming consensus at least in Utah is that both organizations have dramatically changed the culture at the resorts they have acquired.

Mostly people prefer working under previous ownership, but there has been some benefits. For example, when Vail acquired PC there was more working capital available for spare parts, etc. But overwhelmingly the employees I have spoken to at DV, PCMR, and Solitude all say the culture became more corporate following the acquisitions and more "red tape" etc and less enjoyable to work at.

Whatever the case, my biggest beef isn't the existence of Vail and Alterra which both seem to do at least a decent job, but rather the fact they are monopolizing the entire industry via their large acquisition activity and leaving very few independents left standing. Every major resort in Utah is now either owned by Vail and Alterra, or partnered with them in some way which is disappointing to me.

I haven't come to a conclusion if one is better than the other, although on PugSki it seems most have a bias toward Alterra over Vail. I was trying to figure out if that was purely preference in particular resorts although you and @David Chaus are making the case that you think Alterra resorts may be better operated on average.

 

[ScotsSkier]

Alterra has a number of resorts they partner with but don't own (copper I believe is a partner resort owned by powdr).

We have had a good debate on PugSki at what Alterra really is trying to do, and I'm in the camp it has essentially just created another Vail with the twist of having more partner resorts. Whatever the case, I'm confident in saying that in Utah they have absolutely changed the culture at Solitude and DV as I know employees at both. Next time you're at an Alterra owned resort, ask the employees that have been around a while and personally ask them. In Utah, the overwhelming sense is that Alterra and Vail have both changed the culture after acquiring a resort.

Now one organization (perhaps Vail??) might be even be more controlling over the individual resorts than Alterra, but the overwhelming consensus at least in Utah is that both organizations have dramatically changed the culture at the resorts they have acquired.

Mostly people prefer working under previous ownership, but there has been some benefits. For example, when Vail acquired PC there was more working capital available for spare parts, etc. But overwhelmingly the employees I have spoken to at DV, PCMR, and Solitude all say the culture became more corporate following the acquisitions and more "red tape" etc and less enjoyable to work at.

Whatever the case, my biggest beef isn't the existence of Vail and Alterra which both seem to do at least a decent job, but rather the fact they are monopolizing the entire industry via their large acquisition activity and leaving very few independents left standing. Every major resort in Utah is now either owned by Vail and Alterra, or partnered with them in some way which is disappointing to me.

I haven't come to a conclusion if one is better than the other, although on PugSki it seems most have a bias toward Alterra over Vail. I was trying to figure out if that was purely preference in particular resorts although you and @David Chaus are making the case that you think Alterra resorts may be better operated on average.

OK, let me give an alternative employee view point. Working at Squaw as a coach what I have seen with Alterra is a move to a more professional organization so yes, a lot of longer term employees complain that it is no longer the wild west culture where they can just pick and choose what they do and when they do it. And there are some great stories about how it used to be! However as we have seen in other current threads there is a near universal expectation that the customer should be looked after and be the focus. If you are going to be in a position to hopefully provide that, it requires a more professional approach and organization of staff.

I would also say that as an employee, the support, the benefits and the resources provided to do my job are significantly superior to another independently owned resort where i also work. As a business owner in my professional life with a focus on business transformation I give high marks to the leadership quality at CEO level of both Squaw and Alterra. JMHO from direct experience....

 

[Wasatchman]

OK, let me give an alternative employee view point. Working at Squaw as a coach what I have seen with Alterra is a move to a more professional organization so yes, a lot of longer term employees complain that it is no longer the wild west culture where they can just pick and choose what they do and when they do it. And there are some great stories about how it used to be! However as we have seen in other current threads there is a near universal expectation that the customer should be looked after and be the focus. If you are going to be in a position to hopefully provide that, it requires a more professional approach and organization of staff.

I would also say that as an employee, the support, the benefits and the resources provided to do my job are significantly superior to another independently owned resort where i also work. As a business owner in my professional life with a focus on business transformation I give high marks to the leadership quality at CEO level of both Squaw and Alterra. JMHO from direct experience....

Great to hear an alternative view. And to be fair, when I visited Crested Butte just after it was acquired by Vail the employees I spoke to were overwhelmingly positive. They got better benefits and higher pay after Vail took over plus greater financial resources. In Utah, the experience from those I know are less positive.

 

[David Chaus]

I haven't come to a conclusion if one is better than the other, although on PugSki it seems most have a bias toward Alterra over Vail. I was trying to figure out if that was purely preference in particular resorts although you and @David Chaus are making the case that you think Alterra resorts may be better operated on average.

It's possible there is some residual negativity towards VR for a number of reasons. No need to go into that here, just to acknowledge some of the anti-VR sentiment.

Aside from that, the local management at Alterra owned resorts seem to have the flexibility to exercise their judgment on how the resort should be run, and better able to make mid-season decisions as needed. Case in point: Stevens Pass (and I assume other Vail Resorts) still are using the reservation system that was implemented this season, despite not really needing it the past month. Once in place, a system or policy seems to be inflexible at VR. And nothing in the way of local contacts to discuss any of this.

Completely aside from all that, of the resorts I have been to, terrain-wise I generally prefer the resorts on the Ikon Pass more so than those on Epic.

 

[James]

Every major resort in Utah is now either owned by Vail and Alterra, or partnered with them in some way which is disappointing to me.

To think it started with someone at Park City forgetting to pay the $1 lease payment in time.

 

[Rich McP]

To think it started with someone at Park City forgetting to pay the $1 lease payment in time.

This would be one of the major downsides to the Wild West management atmosphere. You don't tend to see this sort of galactic blunder at a highly professional organization. What you tend to see at said highly professional org is the ability to pounce on such a blunder.

 

[Tricia]

This would be one of the major downsides to the Wild West management atmosphere. You don't tend to see this sort of galactic blunder at a highly professional organization. What you tend to see at said highly professional org is the ability to pounce on such a blunder.

Oh the stories I could tell you about my contract work for MNC/Vail Resort's Media.
A full 1.5 years after they released me from my contract, I got an email from them asking me to "pretty please release ownership of the URL www.epicski.com."
It turns out that the first time I did so, the guy in charge of doing the ownership transfer dropped the ball.
I could have been nasty but that doesn't serve my soul.

 

[Wasatchman]

This would be one of the major downsides to the Wild West management atmosphere. You don't tend to see this sort of galactic blunder at a highly professional organization. What you tend to see at said highly professional org is the ability to pounce on such a blunder.

The crazy thing is that galactic blunder was done by powdr Corp, who is still one of the larger operators of ski resorts in the USA. That had to be quite the embarrassment for the Cummings family.

 

[fatbob]

The crazy thing is that galactic blunder was done by powdr Corp, who is still one of the larger operators of ski resorts in the USA. That had to be quite the embarrassment for the Cummings family.

It's a shame we don't have the epic archive because that was one of the more inevitable things that was going to happen where IIRC a number if locals insisted it would all resolve in powdr's favour. IIRC it all started with them firing the guy who sat with the lease and not conducting a proper handover. Oopsy!

 

[Stephen Witkop]

I could have been nasty but that doesn't serve my soul.

The value of a clear conscience can never be overstated.

 

[Cols714]

I've been pretty happy with Alterra and Vail with most of the changes they've made at various resorts.

 

[locknload]

Changing the culture of a resorts is easy to do if you own...not if you just partner with it via a lift pass program like Ikon. If you don't own, you are just helping facilitate lift ticket sales. Seems hard to generalize about the corporate culture unless its a straight comparison between Alterra resorts that they own and VR and the resorts they own and operate. They are now the big dogs on the block and understanding how they view themselves, their model and their major competition is kind of interesting to understand.