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Am I crazy for wanting a shell jacket without any insulation for northeast US skiing?

cantunamunch

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Not sure what the difference is with wearing a shell and owning a bunch of different middle layers, again once you figure out their temperature range. And I only need one expensive shell. Midlayers tend to be cheaper.

Convenience. For a cycling analogy, do you grab one premium Alpha Pro jacket that is just grab and go? Or do you attempt to layer any of 10+ various midlayers under a Gore shell?
 

Noodler

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Not sure what the difference is with wearing a shell and owning a bunch of different middle layers, again once you figure out their temperature range. And I only need one expensive shell. Midlayers tend to be cheaper.

But then how will you color coordinate for the day with each one of your pairs of skis?

But seriously, doesn't seem like you read my reasons in my post.
 

TheArchitect

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I have both a shell from Colorado Freeride Systems and two thinly insulated Polartec Alpha jackets from Strafe. All three are made with a NeoShell outerlayer which is highly breathable and a requirement for me as I sweat like crazy. With the Strafe jackets I can ski with a base layer and Patagonia grid fleece down to 10 degrees. Warm days I lose the fleece and open the vents. Below 10 degrees I'll add either a Strafe Alpha Direct Insulator or Patagonia Nano-air. Both mid-layers are very breathable and work well with the NeoShell. In other jackets I'd always end up with a jacket heavy with moisture at the end of the day.

My advice is that whatever you go with make sure that the fabrics work well together when it comes to temp and moisture management.
 

martyg

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A shell us a great, versitile tool. That being said, in my book, on a brutally cold day nothing beats a fully insulated jacket and pants. I picked up a Stio Shot 7 jacket this year as my insulated piece. It is a heater. My core stays warmer. My extremities are warmer because my core is warmer. I perform better. Get both if money is not an issue.
 

motogreg

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I'll be a voice of dissent, I used to only wear shells, but as I've aged I've come to appreciate some insulation on the outer layer, at least on "normal" Michigan winter days.
 

Noodler

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I have both a shell from Colorado Freeride Systems and two thinly insulated Polartec Alpha jackets from Strafe. All three are made with a NeoShell outerlayer which is highly breathable and a requirement for me as I sweat like crazy. With the Strafe jackets I can ski with a base layer and Patagonia grid fleece down to 10 degrees. Warm days I lose the fleece and open the vents. Below 10 degrees I'll add either a Strafe Alpha Direct Insulator or Patagonia Nano-air. Both mid-layers are very breathable and work well with the NeoShell. In other jackets I'd always end up with a jacket heavy with moisture at the end of the day.

My advice is that whatever you go with make sure that the fabrics work well together when it comes to temp and moisture management.

This made me think of an interesting analogy (and I'm sure there are more). Buying a well-designed higher line insulated jacket, where the entire "system" of the layers has been thoroughly considered and tested, is like buying a nice high-end audiophile grade speaker system. Sure you could go out and buy/build a box along with the separate drivers and the crossover network, but then you're on the hook for building the speaker and making it all work optimally. Will your homemade speaker deliver music to your ears? Yeah sure, but there's no way you're putting in the same level of engineering and testing that an audiophile grade speaker gets.

When you "build" your own ski "jacket" through the combination of multiple layers, you might get lucky and it works out well for you, or you can do what some other skiers do and leave the design of the windproofing, waterproofing, breathability, and insulation levels to an expert. :)
 

Jersey Skier

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This made me think of an interesting analogy (and I'm sure there are more). Buying a well-designed higher line insulated jacket, where the entire "system" of the layers has been thoroughly considered and tested, is like buying a nice high-end audiophile grade speaker system. Sure you could go out and buy/build a box along with the separate drivers and the crossover network, but then you're on the hook for building the speaker and making it all work optimally. Will your homemade speaker deliver music to your ears? Yeah sure, but there's no way you're putting in the same level of engineering and testing that an audiophile grade speaker gets.

When you "build" your own ski "jacket" through the combination of multiple layers, you might get lucky and it works out well for you, or you can do what some other skiers do and leave the design of the windproofing, waterproofing, breathability, and insulation levels to an expert. :)

While most high end speakers sound great, some don't. I'm sure there are some expensive jackets that are just not well designed too. You can probably find some insulated jackets that are inexpensive that work well too.
 

Ogg

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While most high end speakers sound great, some don't. I'm sure there are some expensive jackets that are just not well designed too. You can probably find some insulated jackets that are inexpensive that work well too.
You can also buy a lot of inexpensive breathable mid layers to put under your nice shell (and for that matter some reasonably priced audio equipment that sounds damn good) and still end up ahead of the equation. I can't argue it's nice top have a nice warm jacket on a cold day but if I'm looking for one jacket that's my main ski jacket it's going to be a shell.
 

David Orr

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Helly Hansen Sogn Shell, MidLayer, Base Layer is normal attire....I do have a heavy duty SunIce Insulated Ski Parka for those subzero days...Only been used twice this year.


Make sure they match your boot color ...that is key!

Unless of course...you are in black or white boots ...then it's anything you feel that day!
 

Magoo

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I wouldn't be happy with one jacket. I use a 80g insulated ski jacket that is 20/20k with side vents for 30 and lower that I can wear my choice of base layer with and a ski soft shell with pit zips in the same manor for when it is 30 and up. Having to wear a base layer and a warm mid layer is to much going on for me.

Having a STP 3 miles away my need vs want is quickly justified.
 

x10003q

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My main go to is a 5 year old Flylow Roswell insulated, 10k/10k jacket with pit zips. I wear a base layer and a fleece vest underneath and this works for me in VT and NYS from 25F down to minus F temps. I use an OR goretex shell for warmer temps. The shell starts to get tight if I wear anything heavier than a Patagonia R2 fleece and a base layer.

I like the simple aspect of not worrying about multiple mid layers when trying to deal with variable temps. I am wearing the Roswell in my avatar picture. The shot is from Jackson Hole exactly 1 year ago - there was a 3 day snowstorm with temps in the teens and the jacket was perfect.
 

Paul Lutes

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Well, I'm gad we finally got past all being in the same boat and have moved on to the real task before us: arguing!
What Noodler said, X10
I might substitute wine + food for speakers, though.

Oh, and also agree with Motogreg: age is a significant correlate. Suspect it's pretty straight forward: slower metabolism, less strenuous activity, crankier personality ..... you know the drill.
 
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PupManS

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So I say this as someone who owns a Stio Shot 7 (Pertex with down) parka that I like a lot, and both a hardshell and a softshell too....

For most of the really cold days (like 10 degrees and below) a "ski jacket" is not really needed. It's usually not snowing, and you're not likely to need a waterproof layer. If I had it all to do over again I'd just roll with a softshell and a good pufffy. On a cold enough day, you just need raw insulation firepower and a puffy can be quite comfortable over a simple base layer, and breathe better than something with waterproof layers. If it's actively snowing, just throw a softshell over the top of it.

This plan assumes you won't ski in rain.
 

Atomicman

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I am in the Insulated camp. Usually wear a base layer t-neck and a midlayer or vest if ultra cold. I can adjust if needed. Very fresh in my mind as it was 8F in the parking lot at Crystal last Friday with a 30 MPH wind! In fact I just bought a new Jacket and pant. Primaloft Gold 20k/20k, and vents, waterproof zippers and thigh vents. All 4 way stretch, the stuff is so comfortable. I have plenty of spring options, or just 1 thin layer under the insulated, or a couple of different light weight jackets.

I am not a fan a of a bunch of layers .... don't like skiing around feeling like the Michelin man!
 

Noodler

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So I say this as someone who owns a Stio Shot 7 (Pertex with down) parka that I like a lot, and both a hardshell and a softshell too....

For most of the really cold days (like 10 degrees and below) a "ski jacket" is not really needed. It's usually not snowing, and you're not likely to need a waterproof layer. If I had it all to do over again I'd just roll with a softshell and a good pufffy. On a cold enough day, you just need raw insulation firepower and a puffy can be quite comfortable over a simple base layer, and breathe better than something with waterproof layers. If it's actively snowing, just throw a softshell over the top of it.

This plan assumes you won't ski in rain.

The other challenge with just a puffy is the durability when encountering unplanned obstructions, i.e. trees. I had a buddy who regularly skied in his down puffy until a day at Vail when a tree branch snagged his jacket and suddenly it was snowing feathers everywhere.
 

François Pugh

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Let's all bear in mind that we have to do an apples to apples comparison between the options. A well insulated 40k/40k jacket compared to a 12k/12k shell (guessing at my TNF; it was over 10 but not 15 IIRC) and cheap mid layers won't give you the same result as expensive shell and mid layers compared to a cheap insulated jacket.
 

cantunamunch

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The other challenge with just a puffy is the durability when encountering unplanned obstructions, i.e. trees. I had a buddy who regularly skied in his down puffy until a day at Vail when a tree branch snagged his jacket and suddenly it was snowing feathers everywhere.

Haha - pretty sure I was wearing a Kevlar-faced (insulated) coat the last time I skied with you. :roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao:
 

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