Am I in the right boot?

[pjcodner]

Ok so don't shoot me here but I need some advice. I don't post much as I am spending most of my time reading. To give you a little background about me. I am 55 yrs old. I consider myself an advanced skier. I took a break from skiing for about 15 yrs. Kids in school, work, moving around the country and picking up other hobbies took me away from skiing. I started skiing at the young age of 4.
Two years ago I decided to get back into the sport. I am on a tight budget so going to a ski shop to buy everything is not an option. We have some great shops around the Minneapolis area but dropping $1500 on equipment was not going to pass the "kitchen congress". So I picked up new old stock skis and boots online after I spent a lot of time researching different sites and reading as much as I can on here.
I am not a racer but I like race gear. I picked up a pair of Atomic GS11's in 165 length and I picked up a pair of Fischer RC4 140 (2019 model) in a 27/27.5 mondo. The questions I have are all around the boots. I love the skis and boots and I love the price I paid for everything. I got the the boots online for $140 shipped in Feb 2020.

I took some measurements of my foot before I made the purchase. In a sitting position I am 26cm long, 105mm across the foot at the widest part and I have a fairly high instep of 28cm. The boots fit great except around the top of the cuff. I have a low calf and I didn't realize that there is a spoiler on the back of the liner till after I got home from my first trip with them. I have only skied on them once as the season was winding down by the time I got the boots. I have removed the spoiler and that helped a bit but I still seem to be low in the boot yet. One thing that I noticed on my first trip is I had a hot spot around my ankle bone and I felt like my foot was sliding forward and back in the boot while I was skiing. I read online that sometimes you have to go up a size to accommodate a high instep so I am assuming that I am in the right boot size based on my foot measurements. Returning these isn't an option so I will have to live with them for now.

Here are my questions:

Am I in the right boot size considering my foot measurements?​

Is there anyway to stop my foot from moving forward and back in the boot? Would going through the vacuum fitting process help with some of this?​

I am going to pick up new foot beds but I don't have the money to get a custom set so would a Superfeet Red Hot be a good choice for trim to fit?​

Would a heel lift help with the cuff rub on my calf?​

​

I appreciate the help, advice and criticism.

Paul

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[Doug Briggs]

I'll preface my remarks by saying I'm not a bootfitter. I do work in a premiere boot fitting shop and listen to the boot fitters there and the discussion here on SkiTalk.

It sounds like you have gotten a shell size too large based primarily on your remarks about your foot ' moving forward and back in the boot'. Vacuuming the boot could help the fit but generally it is much easier to make a boot larger, not smaller. I would recommend letting 'congress' know how much you have saved on skis and the other gear but that boots aren't an item you should be trying to save money on. With a nod to the 'congress', you can point out that you date your skis, but you marry your boots. There are lots of places to economize but your boots are not one of them. Also, most shops will probably charge for the vacuum process as you didn't buy your boots from them.

The rubbing at the cuff probably has a lot more to do with the slop in the fit in general than the elevation of your heel in the boot. Heel lifts do a lot more than just move your foot up higher in the boot and changing where things rub or not. They affect fore/aft balance and are often used to address flexion issues in your ankle.

I'd recommend NOT investing more in the boots but getting to a boot fitter that can properly size, fit and align you to boots for lasting performance and comfort. Bring your boots, of course, because they may be able to be made to work for you, but be prepared to get new boots and custom footbeds. Be honest with any store you walk in to. Let them know you are on a budget, how you ski and where you want to go with your skiing. A good shop will work with you within the parameters you set but they need to know what those parameters are.

Also consider that a flex of 140 is pretty stiff. With all the play in your boots at present, you may not be experiencing the full stiffness of the boot. Be aware that once fitting better, they may feel stiffer (or not) as your foot and leg will engage the boot differently. On the plus side, it is easier to soften a boot than to stiffen one.

 

[Jilly]

My favourite Mantra from the Ski Diva's...you marry your boots, date your skis.

Please don't spend any money on these boots. Get thee to a boot fitter.

 

[Philpug]

My favourite Mantra from the Ski Diva's...you marry your boots, date your skis.

Which I coined on Epic years ago.

 

[ScottB]

OK, I preface this with I am going against the grain of all boot buying advice on this site. I know I am not the only one who feels this way, but I maybe the only one willing to post it. I have bought boots mostly online for all my life. I have always felt it is the only way to get a heavily price discounted boot. The risk is you better know what size and width you need, if not you wind up where you are.

Firstly, 140 is wayyyy to stiff a flex. You haven't said your height/weight but I would pegg you at a 100-110 flex, 120 is for 160-190 lb person. I am 6'4" and 240lbs and I like a 130 flex.

Next, if you foot is 26 cm long, you should be in a 25 shell, not 27. You are probably 2 sizes too big. The symptom of too big is your foot moves fore/aft.

Lastly, your cuff latch bail hooks are moveable and should be moved to give you the most cuff width. Make new holes if you have to and that will solve the cuff tightness. The cuff can be shortened as well, but usually moving the latch hooks does the trick.

You will need a wide model boot, based on your foot width measurement. My suggestion is a 25.5 shell in a wide boot, such as the Atomic Hawk Magna boot. You might need them heat molded to get enough width. If you found a shop with left overs for a price around $200-300 that would heat mold them for you, that would be your best bet.

Sell what you have for boots now and start over. You can't fix what you have now.

 

[jmeb]

Next, if you foot is 26 cm long, you should be in a 25 shell, not 27. You are probably 2 sizes too big. The symptom of too big is your foot moves fore/aft.

While this is generally true, if he's measuring a true 28cm instep, it will be very hard to find a 25 with appropriate room. Maybe you could in a HV last and some liner mods. But a 26 mondo that fits his instep and ankle appropriately, while leaving a bit of comfort in the toes, will likely ski very well.

As usual, the right boot short of seeing it on a foot, is hard to prescribe.

 

[ScottB]

I agree if the correct instep fit is a 26 or even 27 shell, and the width is good and snug, then extra length is perfectly fine. My son has this type of fit for his wide foot. If he is moving fore / aft his instep fit is not good, so go down in size and go wider last if needed. How many sizes to drop, is hard to tell. 26 might be the better starting point all things considered. Like all things, its a balancing act between length, width, instep fit, and heel pocket fit. If you nail all four, you have found your boot.

 

[Noodler]

Firstly, 140 is wayyyy to stiff a flex. You haven't said your height/weight but I would pegg you at a 100-110 flex, 120 is for 160-190 lb person. I am 6'4" and 240lbs and I like a 130 flex.

Just a note on flex advice. First, as often stated, there are no flex standards, so it's hard to say whether the Fischer 140 is actually too stiff if you've never skied a Fischer 140 flex boot. I find my Fischer 140 shell to be quite comparable to my Head 130 shells. I'm only 5' 7" @175 lbs.

Second, how a skier uses boot flex is highly dependent on how they ski. I do not want my boots to flex much at all. I want the responsiveness and suspension that a fairly stiff boot will provide. When my shin is pressuring the front of the boot, I want that pressure to directly hit the front of the ski. The stiffness needed is also dependent on the skier's height and weight along with the speed they typically ski.

Ski boot flex is a very personal choice, there aren't hard and fast rules for everyone to follow.

 

[François Pugh]

If I were forced to put my money down on a shell size for you, I would put it on 26 (also known as 26.5).

As to flex, It's a matter of personal preference. Anecdotal reference: I prefer a much higher flex than what folks would recommend for me. Don't sweat too much over it.

My feet measure 27 and 27.5 (forget which one is longer) in length, and I have boots in 27.5 and another pair in a smaller size. The smaller size required major work before it would fit, and is damn cold for my diabetic feet. Hence the reason for me getting new warmer boots this fall (in a 27.5).

It's worth the investment in paying a knowledgeable experienced boot fitter to assess your boot fit (and maybe even do some needed work on the boots you end up with).

 

[Eric@ict]

I bought new boots 2 seasons ago. I bought year old models that were deeply discounted. The shop molded and fit them to me. I was in to the boots for half of the current model which was a color change. Best money I spent.

 

[Near Nyquist]

This boot may work for your anatomy
Provided

1) you got a Fischer vacuum setup in your garage

2) your instep and the shell play nice with each other

3) you don’t have to much room on the sides of your heel

4) actual footbed that matches your arch shape

5) you have the ability to change the flex on the boot by cutting the saddle

I know most of the people from Minnesota are very resourceful but this may be beyond your abilities without the aforementioned gear listed above

The Disclaimer:

Yes I am a bootfitter
Yes I see this everyday
Yes I am gonna charge you to fix this
Yes I will tell you if I can’t and you should just return em
Yes most boot purchases done on the Internet turn out wrong cause they end up in my lap
Yes UPS makes money shipping them back

moral to this story:

Unless you are already in the same exact shell or have a garage full of tools and knowledge

DONT TRY THIS AT HOME

#theinternetcantfityourboots

 

[markojp]

This boot may work for your anatomy
Provided

1) you got a Fischer vacuum setup in your garage

2) your instep and the shell play nice with each other

3) you don’t have to much room on the sides of your heel

4) actual footbed that matches your arch shape

5) you have the ability to change the flex on the boot by cutting the saddle

I know most of the people from Minnesota are very resourceful but this may be beyond your abilities without the aforementioned gear listed above

The Disclaimer:

Yes I am a bootfitter
Yes I see this everyday
Yes I am gonna charge you to fix this
Yes I will tell you if I can’t and you should just return em
Yes most boot purchases done on the Internet turn out wrong cause they end up in my lap
Yes UPS makes money shipping them back

moral to this story:

Unless you are already in the same exact shell or have a garage full of tools and knowledge

DONT TRY THIS AT HOME

#theinternetcantfityourboots

Thank you! Honestly, and some tough love coming, comments on boot fit based on 'personal experience' not directly related to seeing a ton of feet and fitting a lot of boots is generally very counter productive. Anyone who has spent time fitting says pretty much what Near Nyquist shared. No more, and often even less.

 

[Ken_R]

While this is generally true, if he's measuring a true 28cm instep, it will be very hard to find a 25 with appropriate room. Maybe you could in a HV last and some liner mods. But a 26 mondo that fits his instep and ankle appropriately, while leaving a bit of comfort in the toes, will likely ski very well.

As usual, the right boot short of seeing it on a foot, is hard to prescribe.

I am sure he can find a size 26.5 boot that suits his foot anatomy pretty well. I agree that downsizing to 25.5 might be possible but it might require a particular boot and a lot of work.

My feet measure 273mm and basically all 27.5 boots are way too big for me. But again, the devil is in the details (instep, volume, width, shape)

 

[pjcodner]

This boot may work for your anatomy
Provided

1) you got a Fischer vacuum setup in your garage

2) your instep and the shell play nice with each other

3) you don’t have to much room on the sides of your heel

4) actual footbed that matches your arch shape

5) you have the ability to change the flex on the boot by cutting the saddle

I know most of the people from Minnesota are very resourceful but this may be beyond your abilities without the aforementioned gear listed above

The Disclaimer:

Yes I am a bootfitter
Yes I see this everyday
Yes I am gonna charge you to fix this
Yes I will tell you if I can’t and you should just return em
Yes most boot purchases done on the Internet turn out wrong cause they end up in my lap
Yes UPS makes money shipping them back

moral to this story:

Unless you are already in the same exact shell or have a garage full of tools and knowledge

DONT TRY THIS AT HOME

#theinternetcantfityourboots

Thanks for the responses everyone I appreciate it and I do have some decisions to make and possibly a couple of discussions with my wife on what I should or shouldn't do (actually can or can't do is more like it).

Just to be clear I am not going to try to adjust the fit of these boots in my garage or basement. I don't have all the tools or knowledge that is what the professionals are for. There is a shop that has the Fischer vacuum setup and I can get it done for $100. I am not sure if that will help or not. Also I do not have a custom foot bed but I am not going to pay $200 for one either so it will have to be trim to fit. I will say that I am not concerned with the width of these boots as I skied on them for a good 10 hours and I didn't have any issues with my foot or toes. The only issue I had was a hot spot on my left ankle and pinching on the calf.

As I said thanks for all the responses. I was pretty sure when I made the post that I was only going to get responses saying I need to go see a boot fitter and pay the price. It is nice to see others are in the same boat as me and are skiing on a budget.

 

[jmeb]

First things first -- get a trim-to-fit in there ASAP. If you can, go to a store that sells a variety of options (even if that's not a ski shop but a running store, etc). Find the on that matches your arch height and length as best you can and buy that. Use the stock sock liner in your boot to trim it accurately.

While the "tough love" of go see a bootfitter (paying close to MSRP, adding in $200+ for custom footbeds, and potentially extra in alignment and canting services, for a tidy $1k) is always the *right* way to do it, the *right* way to buy a suit is, at minimum made-to-measure and preferably bespoke. How many members on here own a bespoke suit?

 

[pjcodner]

First things first -- get a trim-to-fit in there ASAP. If you can, go to a store that sells a variety of options (even if that's not a ski shop but a running store, etc). Find the on that matches your arch height and length as best you can and buy that. Use the stock sock liner in your boot to trim it accurately.

While the "tough love" of go see a bootfitter (paying close to MSRP, adding in $200+ for custom footbeds, and potentially extra in alignment and canting services, for a tidy $1k) is always the *right* way to do it, the *right* way to buy a suit is, at minimum made-to-measure and preferably bespoke. How many members on here own a bespoke suit?

Ok so I will have to confess I had to google what bespoke meant in regards to suits. I don't own any "bespoke" suits and the only tailoring I have done is hemming the pants to length on the one suit that I do own. I am trying not to spend $1k on ski boots. Of all the sports and activities that I do I don't have any one item that costs $1k other than my trap shotgun which was $1300 and is worth $2500 now.
I will make a trip to the local ski shop this weekend and look at the different options for trim to fit foot beds. I know that I need that at the bare minimum and from there I can always go see the ski shop that can mold my boots.

 

[Dwight]

@pjcodner, you live near one of the best boot fitters in the Midwest, Pierce skate and ski. Go talk to them. They might even have last years inventory for a discount.

I am not a boot fitter. I do help in the used retail market. Boots are tough, I usually tell people go down a size. Everyone wants a boot that feels like shoe. I fully understand the cost issue. One can get new fitted boots for around $250, usually a previous inventory. This time a year, might be hard, but not impossible.

Your high instep will put you in too big of a boot if you just go by feel and don't have a boot fitter help you.

 

[jmeb]

A high instep and a high arch are not the same thing and require different fit strategies. I see nothing in OPs post indicating a high arch.

 

[Dwight]

A high instep and a high arch are not the same thing and require different fit strategies. I see nothing in OPs post indicating a high arch.

You are correct. I changed my post. I probably should of quoted, instead of memory.

 

[KingGrump]

Beside improved fit, a good molding on a pair of Fischer Vac will also correct some alignment issues.

I picked up a pair of Atomic GS11's in 165 length and I picked up a pair of Fischer RC4 140 (2019 model)

I am a bit confused. A 140 boot on a 14 years old GS ski in a 165?