Another sad story of a hit and run incident

oldschoolskier

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I’m partially going to blame out of control skiing on modern skis. They allow rapid access to slopes beyond the control of a lot of skiers as they provide easy skiing with few well developsimple skills (note skills not technique) that we had to learn on straights before we could go fast.

With modern skis it is easy to learn to carve and believe that we have skill and as a result step into well groomed slopes, this same confidence allows us to increase speed to the point that when said skills that are need to control or avoid they really aren’t there. They only find out too late and hopefully no injuries occur and lessons are taken on this wake up call.

Suggestion: A simple beginner ski package sold comes with a 5 -1/2hr free lesson package or something like that (this is not a money maker for resorts but a safety program. Resorts and ski manufacturers pick up the cost). Remember that encourages 5 days of lift ticket purchases.

Of course we have the intentional stupid, but that’s a whole other issue that I’m not sure there will ever be a solution.
 

oldschoolskier

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Skiers code is way different than driving. For starters we don't have seat belts and air bags. We also don't have mandatory insurance. Driving also requires actual training and proficiency exams before folks are allowed to drive on public roads shared by other vehicles.. Way easier to maintain control and stop a pair of skis than a 3,000 pound automobile. still, speed and following distance are usually based on being able to stop/avoid what is in front of you but the variables are way higher for driving.
Skiers code and driving rules aren’t that vastly different. Difference is mass and velocity with the resultant damage.
 

pchewn

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Skiers code and driving rules aren’t that vastly different. Difference is mass and velocity with the resultant damage.
They are vastly different.

Driving Rules: Stay in your lane. ----- Skier's Code: There are no lanes
Driving Rules: Don't swerve ----- Skier's Code: Swerve all you want, don't hit those in front of you.
Driving Rules: Check behind/beside before maneuvering ----- Skier's Code: Maneuver but dont' hit what's in front.

There are others.

It chaps my hide whenever I hear someone say "He cut me off!" "He cut into my line" There is no such thing for skiing.
 

dbostedo

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Skiers code and driving rules aren’t that vastly different. Difference is mass and velocity with the resultant damage.
Skiers code and driving rules, IMO, are very different in a lot of ways.

Imagine skiers code applied to a highway... I'd be free to meander back and forth across the highway without signaling, and it would be up to cars behind me to pass safely or stay behind me. In that way it's really different.
 

dbostedo

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keeping groomed and even grooming more is far the lessor of the two evils and i dont even think its close.
I disagree, and I don't think it's close either. :) The average speed of the average skier would be so much lower without a lot of grooming, that even an increase in falls or collisions (which I don't think there would be) would probably lead to less injuries and less severe injuries. People ski way slower when conditions are difficult for them, in general.

That said, I'm fine with the amount of grooming at most resorts.
 
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oldschoolskier

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We figured out that drivers are way more stupid and really need to regulated

@dbostedo @pchewn are you implying that skiers beed to regulated the same?????

BTW both of you may have never driven on road where the regulations don’t apply or are followed. In most cases it works out very well as they respect each other. Can’t say the same in North America or that of a lot of skiers.....
 

Ogg

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I disagree, and I don't think it's close either. :) The average speed of the average skier would be so much lower without a lot of grooming, that even an increase in falls or collisions (which I don't think there would be) would probably lead to less injuries and less severe injuries. People ski way slower when conditions are difficult for them, in general.

That said, I'm fine with the amount of grooming at most resorts.
Stop the brutal grooming! Protect the endangered moguls! :duck:
 

pchewn

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@dbostedo @pchewn are you implying that skiers beed to regulated the same?????
No, I do not imply that skiers and cars need to be regulated the same.

The nature of the activity requires that each have different rules.

Just like there are different rules for paragliding, sailboat racing, surfing, etc.... The unique conditions and limitations of the activity results in different rules. (e.g. Paragliding the paraglider below has the right of way. Why? Because the paraglider below cannot see well above. Because the paraglider below has less room to maneuver to avoid the ground.)
 

dbostedo

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No, I do not imply that skiers and cars need to be regulated the same.

The nature of the activity requires that each have different rules.

Just like there are different rules for paragliding, sailboat racing, surfing, etc.... The unique conditions and limitations of the activity results in different rules. (e.g. Paragliding the paraglider below has the right of way. Why? Because the paraglider below cannot see well above. Because the paraglider below has less room to maneuver to avoid the ground.)
I agree with this @oldschoolskier... I was not at all suggesting that skiing should change to be more like driving. I think the current code is pretty darn good.

I only meant to point out how different skiing and driving are, as people seem to sometimes try to compare or equate them. And I think that leads to some skiers thinking that there should be lanes or turn signals or rear view mirrors or other "driving" things out on the slopes - which I don't want.
 

James

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BTW both of you may have never driven on road where the regulations don’t apply or are followed. In most cases it works out very well as they respect each other. Can’t say the same in North America or that of a lot of skiers.....
You’ve driven in say India or Pakistan?

The average speed of the average skier would be so much lower without a lot of grooming, that even an increase in falls or collisions (which I don't think there would be) would probably lead to less injuries and less severe injuries. People ski way slower when conditions are difficult for them, in general.
“Average skier” is generally not the problem.
Maybe. I mean 40 yrs ago grooming was nothing like today. I’m not sure speed was less. Not sure.

I got hit by a teenage asteroid on a basically empty mogul trail. The moguls failed to slow him down apparently, but hitting me stopped us both cold, and I wasn’t even moving before.
 

oldschoolskier

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I agree with this @oldschoolskier... I was not at all suggesting that skiing should change to be more like driving. I think the current code is pretty darn good.

I only meant to point out how different skiing and driving are, as people seem to sometimes try to compare or equate them. And I think that leads to some skiers thinking that there should be lanes or turn signals or rear view mirrors or other "driving" things out on the slopes - which I don't want.
The point is they really are similar, slope= lane, don’t run into someone, on’t cut people off, don’t pull out in front of someone without looking. The very basic rules of driving.

Unfortunately, drivers do not understand these simple concepts. skiers in a lot of cases are not much better.
 

RobSN

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It chaps my hide whenever I hear someone say "He cut me off!" "He cut into my line" There is no such thing for skiing.
99.5% of the time, I'm with you ... but that's not always 100% true. I've had people start off from the side of the run just below me without looking up the run to see what's happening - and thereby closing a gap with another skier and leaving me precious little room ... haven't hit anyone yet, and hope I don't, but I'm darned if #1 supersedes #4 under those circumstances ...
 

dbostedo

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I mean 40 yrs ago grooming was nothing like today. I’m not sure speed was less. Not sure.
I haven't been skiing that long, and in my early skiing years (early 90's) I was certainly not cognizant of the dangers, as I was generally skiing the easy slopes at very moderate speeds. Plus I was in the mid-Atlantic where everything was groomed, just about, so didn't know what I didn't know, so to speak. I'm curious about places that have traditionally groomed less, what the statistics would say over time. No clue how to actually get that kind of data though - it probably wasn't recorded.
 

Ulmerhutte

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Regarding Highway Code versus skiers code: one of us is missing the point, maybe me. To me, they are the same... in INTENT. Same as rules that govern flight, especially in controlled airspace. Broadly, their intent is to increase safety for participants and those that may interact (willingly or not) with participants. Yes, there are other considerations, eg increase traffic flow efficiency, but safety is the prime concern.
 

martyg

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YES. Not my thoughts; reaction was posted in comment section of newspaper story.

And... before dismissing them as simply "troll" behavior, note that I posted that comment b/c it very closely echoed my own scary experience yesterday. Skiing a pretty direct short-swing line on north face of Mt. Snow when a straight-lining snowboarder brushed by me at what felt like 50 mph. When I got to the lift, he was still there with a bunch of friends and, not feeling up to a big scene, I simply and emphatically stated "You know, downhill skier ALWAYS has the right of way".
Guy just looked at me and said "well, what could I do; you were taking up the whole trail turning everywhere".
Click out of your ski and square him in the balls with your big, heavy, plastic boot. Even if you miss, you will hit his quad and render him useless.
 

Pequenita

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Why did some other person at the scene tell the kid to leave??? It seems he was there cooperating to some degree and some other bystander told him he could leave??? That's as much a problem as the kid saying OK an skiing off..
This has happened to me. I clipped someone who was on a crash course with me coming around a tree. I tried to change my turn but I still got out in front of her, and she skied over my tails, crashed, and broke her arm while I double ejected and flipped. I collected myself and skied over to help her, give her my name, etc., and her friends angrily shooed me away even after I said I was the person that almost collided with her. I mean, what do you do in that situation?
 

pchewn

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The point is they really are similar, slope= lane, don’t run into someone, on’t cut people off, don’t pull out in front of someone without looking. The very basic rules of driving.

Unfortunately, drivers do not understand these simple concepts. skiers in a lot of cases are not much better.
Agree with everything except what's bolded. A skier can "cut people off" as much as they want and not violate the skier's code. It is up to the "cutee" to avoid the "cutter".

The scenario that comes to mind: Skier A is doing short radius and med radius turns on a slope and is below/in-front-of skier B. Skier B is making long radius turns (or no turns) and is above/behind skier A. Skier A does a series of turns that puts him directly below skier B ("cutting him off"). Skier B does not avoid skier A and collides with him. Skier B has violated the skier code. Skier A has not violated the skier code.

It is dangerous to promote the idea that skiers should not "cut off" other skiers. The code says nothing about this. It does say that the skier above/behind SHALL avoid the skier below/in-front.
 
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