Anyone else going to sit this one out?

[givethepigeye]

@Tex + 1 for the Benelli

 

[pais alto]

And for those in the US, remember that stands for United States, not Ununlited States.

Doesn‘t the concept of ‘states’ rights’ pretty much cover the ability of a state to protect its citizens during times of crisis? As far as unity goes, I’m not interested in getting COVID just because many other people have it.

Putting up regulators borders between states, well there are smarter ways to stop the spread.

Can you name a couple of those ways for us?

 

[Gary Stolt]

Just remember that if you are in politics and make a decision on Covid right now, half the people will love you and half will hate you. I'm not going to second guess anybody. As far as sitting this one out - I'm hoping to ski this season but it's 50/50 whether I will ski before Christmas. If the snow flies, it will be hard to resist - would feel really bad if I brought a case of Covid back with me.

 

[David Chaus]

I guess I am fortunate. I am able to ski locally, and there is enough snow to do so. Travel to other states may or may not happen this season, but I have no compelling reason to sit this season out. The reservation system for Crystal (on the Ikon app) works well and people are wearing masks and distancing appropriately.

That said, driving 2 1/2 hours each way to Crystal is a bit long, so I finally bought a midweek pass for Stevens, which is a 1 hour 45 minutes drive. I guess I am landing on the cautiously optimistic side of the fence, enough that I now have two season passes for this year. If the Covid issues become worse in WA state, I could always defer my midweek pass if I don’t use it. Stevens is scheduled to open Dec 4th (though they have plenty of early season snow) and reservations are not yet available for the first week, so I likely wouldn’t be able to ski there until Dec 11.

 

[Tex]

Doesn‘t the concept of ‘states’ rights’ pretty much cover the ability of a state to protect its citizens during times of crisis?

Yep, if states want to do that they can, I will not be going there.

 

[Tex]

Can you name a couple of those ways for us?

Wear a mask and wash your hands.

 

[pais alto]

Wear a mask and wash your hands.

There oughta be a law then.

 

[François Pugh]

Can you name a couple of those ways for us?

Widespread testing.
Contact tracing for folks who have COVID-19.
Quarantining people who have it.
Not sharing indoor air for extended periods of time with people who may have it.
Wearing a mask or face covering when within 6 feet of other people.
Putting time and money into building an adequate PPE supply and treatment facilities.

 

[pais alto]

Widespread testing.
Contact tracing for folks who have COVID-19.
Quarantining people who have it.
Not sharing indoor air for extended periods of time with people who may have it.
Wearing a mask or face covering when within 6 feet of other people.
Putting time and money into building an adequate PPE supply and treatment facilities.

Well, since that’s not getting done, I guess we’re stuck with travel restrictions. Oh, wait...

 

[crgildart]

It's not my problem that other people are filling up the hospital ICUs and respiratory wards beyond system capacity... until I need help from them myself. Until then screw the lockdowns and restrictions. They signed up to be healthcare workers.... if they're slammed that's their problem LOL...

Seems to be the vibe I'm getting here...

Sturgis proved that we can't just try to mitigage this pandemic completely free of regulations and travel bans. People aren't going to do the right thing on their own as long as we're allowed not to do the right thing at will. I welcome whatever draconian measures they can lay down if that's what it takes to keep the healthcare systems from collapsing.. And deplying the vaccines will be way easier if they're not overwhelmed just trying to keep hundreds of thousands of people alive.. Efficient vaccine deployment means returning to normal faster.. A better srping, summer, and especially MORE skiing next season..

 

[Wendy]

Well, since that’s not getting done, I guess we’re stuck with travel restrictions. Oh, wait...

Yeah my fear of travelers right now is that enough will say, Hey, I took time off and paid for this trip, I’m doing whatever the hell I want!”

I’m not saying that about people posting here; it’s just a generalized statement.

Clearly enough shenanigans have been going on these past months; our Covid rates show it.

 

[Wendy]

It's not my problem that other people are filling up the hospital ICUs and respiratory wards beyond system capacity... until I need help from them myself. Until then screw the lockdowns and restrictions. They signed up to be healthcare workers.... if they're slammed that's their problem LOL...

Seems to be the vibe I'm getting here...

I’m not getting that sentiment here, but I do agree it exists out there.

My hope is that travelers take a long hard look not only at cases, but hospitalizations and ICU capacities at their destination, and also have a plan if they get sick while away, before they embark on that trip.

Just keep in mind that a ski trip is nonessential travel even though it may feel essential.

There’s been years in the past when I couldn’t travel for one reason or another, and none of those years stand out as a year that was awful, depressing, or particularly disappointing just because of that.

 

[Tony S]

I guess I am fortunate. I am able to ski locally, and there is enough snow to do so.

Yeah, we do not have the snow yet - nothing new there - but my current outlook is more or less, "I'm going to make the best of what I've got in-state." [Waves from upper right corner to upper left corner: ]

 

[Wendy]

Yeah, we do not have the snow yet - nothing new there - but my current outlook is more or less, "I'm going to make the best of what I've got in-state." [Waves from upper right corner to upper left corner: ]

You’re in a good state to enjoy the winter.

 

[crgildart]

Yeah, we do not have the snow yet - nothing new there - but my current outlook is more or less, "I'm going to make the best of what I've got in-state." [Waves from upper right corner to upper left corner: ]

Same here.. but several areas did open for the weekend. Warm rain coming mid week though :-(

 

[dbostedo]

You’re in a good state to enjoy the winter.

I wish I was....

 

[Wendy]

I wish I was....

View attachment 115669

Ha, that’s me, too.

 

[Jenny]

Here's today's webcam from where we have our weekend passes. Not skiing anytime soon, either.

 

[crgildart]

It's not my problem that other people are filling up the hospital ICUs and respiratory wards beyond system capacity... until I need help from them myself. Until then screw the lockdowns and restrictions. They signed up to be healthcare workers.... if they're slammed that's their problem LOL...

Seems to be the vibe I'm getting here...

I’m not getting that sentiment here, but I do agree it exists out there.

My hope is that travelers take a long hard look not only at cases, but hospitalizations and ICU capacities at their destination, and also have a plan if they get sick while away, before they embark on that trip.

Just keep in mind that a ski trip is nonessential travel even though it may feel essential.

There’s been years in the past when I couldn’t travel for one reason or another, and none of those years stand out as a year that was awful, depressing, or particularly disappointing just because of that.

IDK.. railing against proposed travel restrictions and other closures seems to convey that vibe or just being plain oblivious to the reasons the experts recommend them and leaders enact them.

My hope is that travelers take a long hard look not only at cases, but hospitalizations and ICU capacities at their destination, and also have a plan if they get sick while away, before they embark on that trip.

Being critical of the suggested mandates to prevent just that is exactly what I was referring to..

 

[geepers]

Widespread testing.
Contact tracing for folks who have COVID-19.
Quarantining people who have it.
Not sharing indoor air for extended periods of time with people who may have it.
Wearing a mask or face covering when within 6 feet of other people.
Putting time and money into building an adequate PPE supply and treatment facilities.

That's a reasonable start. But there's some issues and extras:

1. Widespread testing - which must be rapid and free.
2. Contact tracing - can become quickly overloaded unless the base case count is very low. Recent minor infection group in Adelaide, Australia, where about 25 confirmed cases resulted in some 4,000 people being instructed to isolate. As the number of positive cases increases contact tracing exponentially increases and can very rapidly overrun tracing and testing capacity.
3. Quarantining - it's not only for people who have it. Applies to those who have been exposed

Which then gets on to extras....

Since Australian borders are effectively closed to non-citizens the biggest transmission vector we've had is failures in compulsory quarantining (in Govt managed facilities) from returned Australians. A major problem here has been the gig economy - casual workers who end up working in multiple facilities/industries to make ends meet. Workers get infected accidentally at a quarantine facility and then take it to the next place they work. Which may well be a pizza place or an aged care facility. It's pretty clear from posts here that no-one wants to miss out on ski season and skiing is a discretionary activity (for most). Now consider that a worker who needs those multiple casual jobs to pay for food/rent/clothes for self and family and they are going to go to work even if they have some symptoms. Casual employees don't get sick leave.

I also think most carry on regardless folk are kind of missing the point. Yes, it is possible to reduce our own risk profile by masking and minimising interaction so we can continue favorite activities. But we don't live in a vacuum. All activity results in interaction for some-one. Drive to the snow and it uses fuel. Which means some-one has to be at the fuel station. It has to get deliveries due to that extra demand. Cars break down, roads need policing. And on it goes for all the support activities required to get people from A to B and keep them fed and sheltered away from home. Of course everyone has an activity that they think is special, mostly harmless and should therefore be treated as an exception. And it probably is low risk for them. But all those exceptions add up to increase the total number of interactions.

The outbreak in Melbourne (population 5.9m) , Australia, that kyboshed their ski season got up to 700+ cases per day. Pretty small outbreak by some standards. They tried specific lockdowns, right down to individual buildings (cluster of high rise apartments). They tried suburban lockdowns. It went some way to stopping growth but did nothing to get case count heading down. And the apparent randomness created a great deal of hostility in the affected communities. Cases only went into decline when they got serious and locked down all non-essential activities. Melbourne has now enjoyed >20 days of zero community transmissions and have few remaining restrictions. (Belgium OTOH had a similar case count to Melbourne's back in August - but whilst Melbourne trended to zero, last I looked Belgium were >15,000 cases per day and in a world of hurt.)

Folks, I sincerely hope you get some skiing this season. I was able to enjoy a few trips to the snow in my state. But that was only because they closed the state border in a timely manner to prevent the Melbourne outbreak spilling over. And the rest of Australia had virtually zero cases of community transmission.