Anyone else going to sit this one out?

[Rudi Riet]

To those who live in a state that has skiing operations: enjoy but be careful and mindful.

To those like me, who must cross borders to ski: think long and hard before taking action.

To all: be extremely judicious and careful if you decide to ski. Think of the full size of your bubble and the extended contacts of this bubble. Note that the prospects of a vaccine are still that - prospects - and that now more than ever we need to look before we leap in terms of recreational travel.

Like I said before: if I have to sit this season out it may hurt my pocketbook but it will be worth it if it helps prevent spread of COVID and helps protect myself and my greater community. Am I burned out on COVID containment measures? Yup. But that doesn’t outweigh the needs of the greater community in my family, team, neighborhood, city, state, and country.

I hope every SkiTalker gets a chance to enjoy our favorite sport safely - either this season or next.

 

[Tex]

To those like me, who must cross borders to ski: think long and hard before taking action.

Are you saying staying in your own state will help minimize the spread? Don't think I buy that. So if my house is 10 foot from the border, I can go to resort A is in my state, or resort B in another state, both 50 miles away, what is the rational that going to resort A will minimize the spread? I use this extreme example to make a point. I do not see how crossing a border, in itself, triggers more spread. And where does this end? Whats next, county borders?

I agree going skiing will increase the spread, but crossing an abitrary border does not have anything to do with it.

 

[Don in Morrison]

This is my 4th week home from a 9-day hospital stay - 7 in the ICU - for COVID. Info about the durability of immunity ranges from there isn't any to forever, so I'm going to play it safe and assume the former but hope for the latter.

My ski conditioning has pretty much atrophied, but I'm back to exercising again in hopes of getting ready for some sort of a ski season. It'll take a couple of months to get my full strength and stamina back, so I will likely wait until February and see how things go before committing to anything. I already have a Super Senior pass for Monarch (only $20, so if the season bombs, I'm ok). If things stay like they are now, I might sit it out, but if things get substantially better, I'll be skiing the latter part of the season.

 

[crgildart]

This is my 4th week home from a 9-day hospital stay - 7 in the ICU - for COVID. Info about the durability of immunity ranges from there isn't any to forever, so I'm going to play it safe and assume the former but hope for the latter.

My ski conditioning has pretty much atrophied, but I'm back to exercising again in hopes of getting ready for some sort of a ski season. It'll take a couple of months to get my full strength and stamina back, so I will likely wait until February and see how things go before committing to anything. I already have a Super Senior pass for Monarch (only $20, so if the season bombs, I'm ok). If things stay like they are now, I might sit it out, but if things get substantially better, I'll be skiing the latter part of the season.

Welcome back Don! WOW what a scare! Glad you survived and recovered.

 

[givethepigeye]

Are you saying staying in your own state will help minimize the spread? Don't think I buy that. So if my house is 10 foot from the border, I can go to resort A is in my state, or resort B in another state, both 50 miles away, what is the rational that going to resort A will minimize the spread? I use this extreme example to make a point. I do not see how crossing a border, in itself, triggers more spread. And where does this end? Whats next, county borders?

I agree going skiing will increase the spread, but crossing an abitrary border does not have anything to do with it.

why would it increase the spread? Outside, 6ft apart w/ mask. there has not been one confirmed example of spread in the 1000s of HS and College football games played (from the games, not sitting in team meetings or training table or such) that I am aware of. Football isn’t skiing and there is potentially travel component. But skiing, outside, seems not to be the issue.

 

[Tex]

why would it increase the spread? Outside, 6ft apart w/ mask. there has not been one confirmed example of spread in the 1000s of HS and College football games played (from the games, not sitting in team meetings or training table or such) that I am aware of. Football isn’t skiing and there is potentially travel component. But skiing, outside, seems not to be the issue.

pigeye don't sing to the choir, I'm not advocating to not ski to help stop the spread. But bottom line, if you do not lock yourself in a room 24x7, you take risk with spreading it. You have 100 people that lock them self in a room 24x7, and 100 people that go skiing, you will have more spread with those that go skiing. But that risk is worth taking JMO, but states and local government can shut that down, I think it does not make sense but they can do that.

My point is arbitrary border crossings do not in itself change anything. Doing anything other than self quarantine will increase the spread, but crossing a border does not trigger a change to this.

 

[Rudi Riet]

I do not see how crossing a border, in itself, triggers more spread. And where does this end? Whats next, county borders?

I agree going skiing will increase the spread, but crossing an abitrary border does not have anything to do with it.

Thus far the "arbitrary borders" have worked for Vermont and Maine. Combined with more strict regulations on gatherings, business operations, et cetera, these borders work. They do serve a purpose.

Sure, some of them are fairly arbitrary. For example, people who live in Emmitsburg, MD, are shouting distance from Carroll Valley, PA, where Liberty Mountain Resort is. That makes sense: they're all less than 4 miles from the mountain and in the same valley. But if you live in Bethesda, MD, and travel to Liberty? That's a decent geographic buffer and the border is an effective separator.

It's worth looking into how big our bubbles actually are. Most people don't understand how big their COVID bubbles actually are - especially if they or anyone within their bubbles have kids (especially kids who participate in league sports or are partaking in any form of in-person schooling). I did my own calculus and while here in Utah my bubble is really tiny, back in DC my bubble was likely a lot more expansive than I'd originally calculated. And when I start coaching the race team? It'll get huge. I'm not looking forward to that.

The problem with those who aren't within the same borders as a ski area is that many have a fairly long commute to said area. I'm 68 miles as the crow flies from Liberty Mountain Resort - a shorter drive than folks from greater Denver are from Summit County - and I can typically drive the round trip three times without having to fill up the car. But if I go for work duty to, say, Blue Mountain, Elk Mountain, or Seven Springs I'm going to end up stopping for petrol, food, restroom, et al. And if it's for a competition I'm probably spending the night proximate to one of these areas - therein lies another potential vector.

At any rate, I could prattle on and not change a single opinion about this. And I understand that most SkiTalkers will take as much care as possible to not be vectors at a time when the pandemic can, will, and is growing exponentially due to winter and the human craving for warm surroundings and other, social factors. Like I said: think long and hard, have a plan for safe travels, safe skiing, safe dining, safe lodging - and a plan for how to handle if you get injured or, goodness forbid, contract COVID along the way.

It's a lot to ponder. It's not fun. It means denying us skiing addicts our easy fix.

To wit: my team is seriously considering creating a full-time COVID coordinator to ensure we are covering all potential circumstances. This is not normal, but here we are.

Trust me: I hope we can all get to ski safely this season. But I'm also keeping a playbook for a winter without skiing because... well, reality and science don't really care about my personal 'druthers. Better to have game plans for the whole enchilada.

Again, as always: just my $0.02. YMMV.

Be safe, folks. Celebrate smartly and responsibly.

 

[Wendy]

Thus far the "arbitrary borders" have worked for Vermont and Maine. Combined with more strict regulations on gatherings, business operations, et cetera, these borders work. They do serve a purpose.

Sure, some of them are fairly arbitrary. For example, people who live in Emmitsburg, MD, who are shouting distance from Carroll Valley, PA, where Liberty Mountain Resort is. That makes sense: they're all less than 4 miles from the mountain and in the same valley. But if you live in Bethesda, MD, and travel to Liberty? That's a decent geographic buffer and the border is an effective separator.

It's worth looking into how big our bubbles actually are. Most people don't understand how big their COVID bubbles actually are - especially if they or anyone within their bubbles have kids (especially kids who participate in league sports or are partaking in any form of in-person schooling). I did my own calculus and while here in Utah my bubble is really tiny, back in DC my bubble was likely a lot more expansive than I'd originally calculated. And when I start coaching the race team? It'll get huge. I'm not looking forward to that.

The problem with those who aren't within the same borders as a ski area is that many have a fairly long commute to said area. I'm 68 miles as the crow flies from Liberty Mountain Resort - a shorter drive than folks from greater Denver are from Summit County - and I can typically drive the round trip three times without having to fill up the car. But if I go for work duty to, say, Blue Mountain, Elk Mountain, or Seven Springs I'm going to end up stopping for petrol, food, restroom, et al. And if it's for a competition I'm probably spending the night proximate to one of these areas - therein lies another potential vector.

At any rate, I could prattle on and not change a single opinion about this. And I understand that most SkiTalkers will take as much care as possible to not be vectors at a time when the pandemic can, will, and is growing exponentially due to winter and the human craving for warm surroundings and other, social factors. Like I said: think long and hard, have a plan for safe travels, safe skiing, safe dining, safe lodging - and a plan for how to handle if you get injured or, goodness forbid, contract COVID along the way.

It's a lot to ponder. It's not fun. It means denying us skiing addicts our easy fix.

To wit: my team is seriously considering creating a full-time COVID coordinator to ensure we are covering all potential circumstances. This is not normal, but here we are.

Trust me: I hope we can all get to ski safely this season. But I'm also keeping a playbook for a winter without skiing because... well, reality and science don't really care about my personal 'druthers. Better to have game plans for the whole enchilada.

Again, as always: just my $0.02. YMMV.

Be safe, folks. Celebrate smartly and responsibly.

 

[Tex]

Thus far the "arbitrary borders" have worked for Vermont and Maine.

So you think every state should imluate this approach? That would would be a mess. I doubt borders had anything to do with Vermont and Maine infection rates, JMO.

 

[dbostedo]

I doubt borders had anything to do with Vermont and Maine infection rates,

They probably did... they were the most aggressive states - Maine had quarantine rules in effect months ago and Vermont has been the strictest more recently. And they currently have the lowest infection rates and total infections (in the continental US).

So now there's a lot of concern from what I've read, in Vermont regarding tourists and keeping businesses afloat. Like just everything, there's a big trade-off there. To my thinking, if a state wants to require quarantines, I'll comply (likely by not going there), but if they don't, I'll likely travel - and stay as safe and isolated as possible/practical.

 

[Rudi Riet]

So you think every state should imluate this approach? That would would be a mess. I doubt borders had anything to do with it Vermont and Maine infection rates, JMO.

Indeed, the borders had something to do with it due to the influence of the two states' governmental rules and regulations regarding COVID.

And I'm not sure it would be a mess so much as it would seem restrictive. People would have fits and meltdowns. It could turn ugly, for sure.

Taking just Pennsylvania into focus, Gov. Wolf just tightened the restrictions in his state (more info here). Of note is that enforcement of COVID rules and regulations is being upped - including enforcement of travel restrictions for out-of-state visitors. This could mean spot-checks. It's sure to ruffle the feathers of those who believe this to be overstepping on the part of government (in pandemic times, I personally don't think it's overstepping). I hope it doesn't result in unnecessary overreaction in the form of violence.

And that's just Pennsylvania.

Vermont and Maine succeeded because they acted quickly and resolutely to slow and shut down a great many things. Half-measures were not their keys to success. Their populations tended to work in support of this to keep things from getting worse, and by-and-large it's been successful. Kudos to them.

 

[pais alto]

So you think every state should imluate this approach?

Yes. JMO

And it’s ‘emulate.’ HTH

 

[Tex]

I would argu Vermont and Maine low infection rates is driven by them shutting down businesses and stay home orders. And if your views on this are so different then neighboring states, you can go more radical and lock out your neighboring states but I doubt that has much impact, and silly.

 

[pais alto]

I would argu Vermont and Maine low infection rates is driven by them shutting down businesses and stay home orders. And if your views on this are so different then neighboring states, you can go more radical and lock out your neighboring states but I doubt that has much impact, and silly.

NM has ‘locked out’ neighboring states - 14 day quarantine. You might think it’s silly, but we’re okay with it. Too bad there’s no skiing in Texas.

 

[dbostedo]

I would argu Vermont and Maine low infection rates is driven by them shutting down businesses and stay home orders

Could be... I don't know if Vermont and Maine's stay at home and shut down orders were much different than many other states. That would take some research. I know their quarantine orders were/are - that's easier to see.

 

[Phelmut]

They probably did... they were the most aggressive states - Maine had quarantine rules in effect months ago and Vermont has been the strictest more recently. And they currently have the lowest infection rates and total infections (in the continental US).

So now there's a lot of concern from what I've read, in Vermont regarding tourists and keeping businesses afloat. Like just everything, there's a big trade-off there. To my thinking, if a state wants to require quarantines, I'll comply (likely by not going there), but if they don't, I'll likely travel - and stay as safe and isolated as possible/practical.

I tend to think it is much more likely that their low infection rates had more to do with how rural and spread out they are than strict rules. Also most of the tourism is outdoors. The more heavily populated an area is will make it more difficult to contain the virus. And just because the governor puts rules in place it does not mean people are following them. Just my opinion.

 

[Wilhelmson]

They did shut down restaurants for a time in northern new england. People acted almost usual and now still do but with restraint. Until recently there was little to no mask wearing. City data is not publicly available so it is difficult to quantify the rural aspect.

 

[pais alto]

Edit to take out political commentary

And as far as the number of deaths, read this about El Paso.

Texas National Guard deployed to help El Paso with morgue overflow

So many have died that the county is now posting job openings for morgue attendants.

www.cbsnews.com

For perspective, over a quarter-million people have died from COVID. 3000 died on 9/11 (and we went to war over that), 50,000 died in Viet Nam. Those were tragedies, I can’t figure out why more than 250,000 dead now seems insignificant.

I know people that have had COVID, and people that have lost a loved one to COVID, and nurses and paramedics that are burned the f*@& out because of responding to COVID. Again, El Paso can’t handle all their dead. Its a horrible thing that thrives when people ignore it or pretend it isn’t bad.

 

[SBrown]

You guys are going to get this shut down. If and when it gets moved to the Pandemic forum, carry on, but please go back to skiing-related posts.

 

[Tricia]

Closing this thread temporarily.
Time to hit the reset button.
May I suggest that everyone...