Anyone use or have a Toko World Cup Edge Tuner?

[KingGrump]

If I had a well ventilated permanent vise set up, I would consider a Razor Tune, but I hate clamping and I still think Inwould be faster with my EVO. YMMV

dm

No need to clamp the ski with the razor tune. I never clamp my skis for edge grind with the razor tune. The only thing I have to watch out for is the skis must clear the vise supports. Especially the tip and tail where the ski is thin. The grinding wheel often over hang the ski top sheet on the bottom.

On their site couple season back, they had a video on tuning free hand off the back of pick up truck using the 12v adapter. No longer there.

 

[sparty]

Thanks Dave! My vises are permanently setup, so no issue there. Yes, you must use the EVO edge up and this is exactly my issue with it. It's is almost impossible to screw things up with the Razor Tune, the way it fully sits across the ski. Also appears to me to be safer. You just don't have the full machine teetering on the narrow edge.

Owning an Evo and having only seen the RT online, I'd agree with that theory. The biggest drawback to the Evo compared to other grinders is, IMO, that it's damned easy to slip away from the base and/or slip off the edge. Now, with that said, if you can run a diamond stone and a file along an edge (with a guide) and not slip off, you should be able to do the same with the Evo; but if (when?) you do slip off, the machine makes the screw-up far more efficient, at least if you're using a coarse disc. With the fine and maybe the medium disc, it doesn't seem to do a whole lot of damage when you slip off, at least in my experience; with the coarse disc, it may take a few more passes to get the edge back where you want it, and you may want to be careful not just to work the screwed-up spot so as not to create a different edge thickness in one place.

With that said, I love the Evo. Wearing a respirator is a moderate PITA, but with 2-3 pairs of skis in decent shape and needing touch-ups, donning the respirator and cleaning up the Evo takes as much time as actually doing edges. The real bonus is when you need more than a touch-up; even with rock damage, if you take the high spots down with a ceramic stone and then use the coarse disc, you're back to a sharp edge in minutes rather than hours with hand tools. The final result is, IME, also sharper than I'd get with diamondstones. That may well be user error (or insufficient patience to make enough passes), but the bottom line is that I have consistently good results with a lot less time with the machine, thus resulting in my wife only complaining that I spend too much time tuning once a week rather than two or three times.

The presence of aerosolized metal is a serious consideration when going to any power edge tools, so factor that in to your purchase; I don't know if respirator prices that jumped at the outset of the pandemic have settled back down or not. I'm still on the fence as to whether or not I should have gotten a full-face model rather than a half-mask; needing to remember eye protection (and try to keep it from fogging) as appropriate is sometimes a challenge. The increased cut risk is real, too, and needs to be considered both while handling skis and if skiing in a GS suit or other, not-so-cut-resistant clothing (I've not heard of any serious cuts through "normal" layers, but I suspect it could happen).

 

[Atomicman]

Owning an Evo and having only seen the RT online, I'd agree with that theory. The biggest drawback to the Evo compared to other grinders is, IMO, that it's damned easy to slip away from the base and/or slip off the edge. Now, with that said, if you can run a diamond stone and a file along an edge (with a guide) and not slip off, you should be able to do the same with the Evo; but if (when?) you do slip off, the machine makes the screw-up far more efficient, at least if you're using a coarse disc. With the fine and maybe the medium disc, it doesn't seem to do a whole lot of damage when you slip off, at least in my experience; with the coarse disc, it may take a few more passes to get the edge back where you want it, and you may want to be careful not just to work the screwed-up spot so as not to create a different edge thickness in one place.

With that said, I love the Evo. Wearing a respirator is a moderate PITA, but with 2-3 pairs of skis in decent shape and needing touch-ups, donning the respirator and cleaning up the Evo takes as much time as actually doing edges. The real bonus is when you need more than a touch-up; even with rock damage, if you take the high spots down with a ceramic stone and then use the coarse disc, you're back to a sharp edge in minutes rather than hours with hand tools. The final result is, IME, also sharper than I'd get with diamondstones. That may well be user error (or insufficient patience to make enough passes), but the bottom line is that I have consistently good results with a lot less time with the machine, thus resulting in my wife only complaining that I spend too much time tuning once a week rather than two or three times.

The presence of aerosolized metal is a serious consideration when going to any power edge tools, so factor that in to your purchase; I don't know if respirator prices that jumped at the outset of the pandemic have settled back down or not. I'm still on the fence as to whether or not I should have gotten a full-face model rather than a half-mask; needing to remember eye protection (and try to keep it from fogging) as appropriate is sometimes a challenge. The increased cut risk is real, too, and needs to be considered both while handling skis and if skiing in a GS suit or other, not-so-cut-resistant clothing (I've not heard of any serious cuts through "normal" layers, but I suspect it could happen).

Yup!

 

[nemesis256]

The presence of aerosolized metal is a serious consideration when going to any power edge tools, so factor that in to your purchase; I don't know if respirator prices that jumped at the outset of the pandemic have settled back down or not.

Is a respirator really necessary? I’ve been using the OR facemask with filter, since it’s what I have. Most sparks with the RazorTune seem to go down onto the table anyway.

 

[sparty]

Is a respirator really necessary? I’ve been using the OR facemask with filter, since it’s what I have. Most sparks with the RazorTune seem to go down onto the table anyway.

I'm going on the warnings on the packages and also considering the lessons learned about fluorinated waxes in the 90s. It will probably be a decade or so before can get any real data on actual safety hazard, but I'm going to treat the dust as a potentially significant hazard until I hear otherwise. I am not treating it as an extreme hazard, as my respirator fit is impaired by my beard, but I don't really have any scientific data to back up that decision.

I do use a spray bottle with water to lightly dampen the edges before grinding; one of the long-time local techs swears it produces better results with the discs. I'm not entirely convinced about that, but I am fairly convinced that it helps reduce the amount of aerosolized metal.

 

[James]

Is a respirator really necessary? I’ve been using the OR facemask with filter, since it’s what I have. Most sparks with the RazorTune seem to go down onto the table anyway.

Probably. Unless you have active ventilation like suction or a fan with Hepa filter. The Toko, Swix, and Raxor are lower speed, but they’re still putting particles in the sir.

 

[KingGrump]

Is a respirator really necessary? I’ve been using the OR facemask with filter, since it’s what I have. Most sparks with the RazorTune seem to go down onto the table anyway.

I look at the RT & Toko unit as a task specific grinder. We used lots of grinders in the construction trades. Most guys who has been in it for a while always wear N95 masks. The grinder throws lots of stuff into the air we can't see. A good way to tell is to wear a good mask, N95 or KN95, and see how dirty the outside of the mask gets at the end of a grinding session. That stuff unless filtered would end up in the lungs.

Since we are talking about simple particulate filtration, a "respirator" is not really necessary. A N95/KN95 mask is good enough.

 

[Atomicman]

This is what I use. I have forgotten to put it on at first a couple of times and it is not a good thing. Metal Lips! The air born particles are ultra small, invisible in fact to the naked eye. So, I ma not sure the N95's are good enough and this thing is totally reusable for a long time before the cartridges need changing.

 

[Atomicman]

Is a respirator really necessary? I’ve been using the OR facemask with filter, since it’s what I have. Most sparks with the RazorTune seem to go down onto the table anyway.

Not the sparks, the invisible dust in the air. Try it once with no mask, that will convince you!

 

[Mark1975]

I have used both, and in the end I personally like the Swix better. I like having the edge up so I can better see the grind process. However, I have a lot of experience in handling power tools, so I can see why some people who don't would like the RT better.

I have one of the first Swix grinders sent to North America. I was using it one season before the general release to U.S. distributors. I have had no problems with it, and the original fine wheel is thin, but still works. This is after hundreds of tunes. I have since purchased the complete set of grits, but the fine wheel is my go to for most work. I usually knock down any edge damage with a 200 grit diamond stone first, so that may explain why I have got such a long life out of the original fine wheel. I have also been lightly spraying the ski edge with water for the grind since I received the tool. It has had no ill effects on the grinder, and does cut down on the dust. However, the grind "slurry" does build up around the wheel housing, and this needs cleaned out on a routine basis. I also use a N95 mask when grinding. A N95 is more than enough to catch any grind particles even if using a dry grinding process. These grinders will throw dust all over your work bench and floor, just like when using a bench grinder or angle grinder for steel work.

That being said, I think the RT is a heavier built tool. For what Swix charges, I think the EVO could be made slightly more "heavy duty" for the price. But again, mine is still working after years of use.

Both grinders do what they say they will. You just need to decide whether you like working edge up or base up.

 

[murphysf]

I purchased a Toko edge tuner and used it for the first time yesterday.

I like the results.

The only part I found was a bit tricky was the beginning and end points. Basically placing it on the edge while it is spinning as well as dealing with the tip area.

The unit is directional so one edge it moves tip to tail and then other edge tail to tip.

Great tool!!

 

[Tony S]

I purchased a Toko edge tuner and used it for the first time yesterday.

I like the results.

The only part I found was a bit tricky was the beginning and end points. Basically placing it on the edge while it is spinning as well as dealing with the tip area.

The unit is directional so one edge it moves tip to tail and then other edge tail to tip.

Great tool!!

I've found that rhe only really bad mistake I can make is accidentally letting the unit tip a little toward the base side, creating a semi-circular bite where the edge angle is suddenly less than desired. I try to be super vigilant about that and usually succeed.

 

[Mark1975]

I purchased a Toko edge tuner and used it for the first time yesterday.

I like the results.

The only part I found was a bit tricky was the beginning and end points. Basically placing it on the edge while it is spinning as well as dealing with the tip area.

The unit is directional so one edge it moves tip to tail and then other edge tail to tip.

Great tool!!

Tip: Don't start the tool until you have placed it on the ski edge. I have the Swix version. It has a smaller direction of travel arrow that indicates the edge of the grind wheel, so I know where the grind will start at the tip of the ski. I just smoothly let it glide off the ski where the tail starts to curve around. Looking at pictures, the Toko version seems to have a longer arrow that may not indicate the edge of the wheel. If that is the case, just use a marker to place two marks on the side of the unit to indicate where the grind wheel starts and stops.

 

[Vicmoto]

I’ve got a pair of new skis with raw edges that I’d need to prepare for summer skiing at 0.5/3.
Bevel will have to go manually but I was thinking using the TOKO with the medium wheel for the edges (I don’t have the coarse wheel). Do you think that sharpening 3º it is too much for the medium wheel? I’m hesitant

 

[Steve]

I use only the medium wheel and it takes quite a bit of material off. I've never started with a 0 degree bevel and cut it back to 3 however. I do use 3 degrees for all my skis.

It might take a few light passes, but I think it would work fine.

 

[Tony S]

I’ve got a pair of new skis with raw edges that I’d need to prepare for summer skiing at 0.5/3.
Bevel will have to go manually but I was thinking using the TOKO with the medium wheel for the edges (I don’t have the coarse wheel). Do you think that sharpening 3º it is too much for the medium wheel? I’m hesitant

I think it will work as long as you backfile first or otherwise remove the plastic that would otherwise be in the wheel's way. Probably take more than the "few" passes @Steve mentions. You should be able to monitor the grind marks as they move gradually from the "snow" part of the side edge towards the "sidewall" part of the side edge with each pass.

 

[sparty]

The coarse wheel will, in my experience, set a bevel within four full passes (with the sidewall already pulled back); in most of the times I've used it for that purpose, it was set within two passes.

So I'd definitely expect the medium to get there eventually, but if you've got the guide and a panzer, I'd set it that way to reduce wear on the grinding wheel.