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Ken_R

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I'm betting that spring will see a big drop off in visitation due to worries about the coronavirus. Wish it wasn't so, but being realistic. Or morbid. Or both...

Na, wait until there is a powder day and suddenly everyone forgets about the Corona virus. Trust me.
 

Ken_R

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The Sun article says that A-Basin had a net loss in the first 3 months vs. $1.5M net income the same period the year before.

Looking at revenue, they should be amortizing Ikon and season pass revenue across the year, so that isn’t making up for lack of on demand ticket sales (Including Epic days). I think the 3 pack for $179 that they have been pushing heavily has probably accounted for the post MLK turnaround along with some Ikon on mountain spend.

You can’t usually buy those 3-4 day ticket products late into the season like they are doing now, because people can take a wait and and see attitude about buying a season pass or anything at all. The entire point of early season pass sales is to lock in revenue regardless of people showing up.

The product that looks most like this mid-season 3 pack pricing is simply lower window prices, just like Loveland (who cuts off the 4 pack sales in Nov).

If they try this again, it will cannibalize season pass sales just like Ikon is going to do this year.

The decreased income was expected. Look back at this and other threads and most people mentioned this.

It will be interesting see how A Basin adjusts their pass products to "deal" with the changes.

I think a $300 season pass that covers only early and late season is a good idea.
 

Wasatchman

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Interesting stats for A-Basin after changing from epic to IKON
I would think Epic is dominant in Colorado among locals. The opposite is true in Utah for iKon. I bet if Snowbasin published the stats their visitation went up with iKon relative to Epic quite significantly.
 

dbostedo

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The opposite is true in Utah for iKon.
Given Park City's popularity/prominence, I would not have thought Ikon was dominant in Utah nearly as much as I'd have guessed Epic was dominant in CO.

Purely my gut perception only of course, thinking Park City is the biggest/most popular/dominant resort in the area. Maybe that's a mischaracterization on my part.

I'd love to see those Snowbasin stats if they ever publish anything.
 

RachelV

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With Epic, A-Basin was unlimited while with Ikon you have the 5 and 7 day limits. I would guess most Ikon pass holders in CO save their A-Basin days for spring so mid-winter usage is way down.

Fall is definitely way down, mid-winter has been a less obvious change imho.

They're offering a "value pass" for next season, which is cool. Gives you a pretty good idea of the days they'd like to cut visitation a little bit: "Pass excludes ALL Saturdays & Sundays in January & February + March 2-3. Full access other than those dates." I am a little surprised that the blackout weekends don't go a bit later into March and even early April but there ya go.

Screen Shot 2023-05-16 at 9.12.49 AM.png
 

Wasatchman

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Purely my gut perception only of course, thinking Park City is the biggest/most popular/dominant resort in the area.
I'm not sure what you mean by this. The population of the Salt Lake metro area absolutely dwarfs the size of the Park City population.

From a tourism point of view, Deer Valley is on iKon so it has a Park City location and accepted at 6 resorts in total in Utah versus just Epic only being accepted at PCMR.

If your perception was correct PCMR wouldn't have even close to enough parking to handle the demand.
 

dbostedo

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I'm not sure what you mean by this. The population of the Salt Lake metro area absolutely dwarfs the size of the Park City population.

From a tourism point of view, Deer Valley is on iKon so it has a Park City location and accepted at 6 resorts in total in Utah versus just Epic only being accepted at PCMR.

If your perception was correct PCMR wouldn't have even close to enough parking to handle the demand.
I wasn't talking about town/city populations. I was talking from a popularity/visitor/skier-days point of view. Kind of like Vail (resort) in CO, I think of Park City as the most obvious, most well-known, most visited resort in Utah. (Though as I'm typing this now, I'm thinking Breck may actually be the most visited in CO.)
 

SBrown

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Fall is definitely way down, mid-winter has been a less obvious change imho.

They're offering a "value pass" for next season, which is cool. Gives you a pretty good idea of the days they'd like to cut visitation a little bit: "Pass excludes ALL Saturdays & Sundays in January & February + March 2-3. Full access other than those dates." I am a little surprised that the blackout weekends don't go a bit later into March and even early April but there ya go.
I have been beating this drum since the days of EpicSki, but Jan and Feb are the main local family months, because spring sports start in March. No, local families are not the only people who go skiing, but they make a dent. Everyone always seems a little surprised that there is a let up in March, when it's the highest vacation time, but as someone who grew up as a Front Range skier and soccer player, then raised a family of Front Range skiers and soccer players, I have lived this for many years. Many Denver families start up soccer/baseball/lacrosse in March, then leave for the beach during spring break. This would absolutely mesh with the dates of the value pass.
 

Wasatchman

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I wasn't talking about town/city populations. I was talking from a popularity/visitor/skier-days point of view. Kind of like Vail (resort) in CO, I think of Park City as the most obvious, most well-known, most visited resort in Utah. (Though as I'm typing this now, I'm thinking Breck may actually be the most visited in CO.)
Yes. I'm talking skier days as well. No way PCMR skier days exceeds the six iKon resorts in Utah combined. No way. If you want to be a contrarian and insist there is a chance that Snowbasin under epic had more visitors than iKon you can, but that's crazy talk. It wouldn't be even close I would venture.
 

dbostedo

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Yes. I'm talking skier days as well. No way PCMR skier days exceeds the six iKon resorts in Utah combined. No way. If you want to be a contrarian and insist there is a chance that Snowbasin under epic had more visitors than iKon you can, but that's crazy talk. It wouldn't be even close I would venture.
Hmm... I wasn't even thinking PCMR had more skier days than the Ikon resorts... I know I'm probably not being clear, and it's not really an important point, just a gut musing...

All I was thinking was (and just making up numbers here) if Epic outsells Ikon 4 to 1 in CO, I was thinking that Ikon outsells Epic by less than 4 to 1 in Utah... maybe 3 to 1, or 2 to 1 or something. That's all I was trying to get at - I thought it seemed likely that Ikon is less dominant in Utah, than Epic is in CO.
 

Jwrags

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I would guess among front rangers the breakdown is much closer. Epic: Keystone, Breckinridge, Vail, Beavercreek. Ikon: Copper, Winter Park, Steamboat, Aspen(4 mountains), Abasin. Yes, Epic has Telluride and Crested Butte but I am not sure how those play into a purchase by people living on the front range.
 

AmyPJ

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Yes. I'm talking skier days as well. No way PCMR skier days exceeds the six iKon resorts in Utah combined. No way. If you want to be a contrarian and insist there is a chance that Snowbasin under epic had more visitors than iKon you can, but that's crazy talk. It wouldn't be even close I would venture.
As someone who skied 80+ days there for the past 9 seasons, Epic crowds didn’t even touch Ikon crowds. Do you are correct.
 

k2rider

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Given Park City's popularity/prominence, I would not have thought Ikon was dominant in Utah nearly as much as I'd have guessed Epic was dominant in CO.

Purely my gut perception only of course, thinking Park City is the biggest/most popular/dominant resort in the area. Maybe that's a mischaracterization on my part.

I'd love to see those Snowbasin stats if they ever publish anything.

I knew what you meant and agree on every point.
 

mikel

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Yes, Epic has Telluride and Crested Butte but I am not sure how those play into a purchase by people living on the front range.

Had to buy the "Epic 4 day include all" pass to get the best deal at Telluride this season. Telluride use to have their own pass product they only offered at shows that was a great deal but that is gone. And yes I know other people that live in Summit and the front range on Ikon that did similar.

I think there were a few stories covering Epic vs Ikon in different media outlets like the Colorado Sun, Summit and/or Vail Daily this season. I seem to recall overall Epic was up but down in Summit and Ikon was up. Might be some of that posted in the Colorado thread.
 

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