Colorado Arapahoe Basin Is NOW a Free Agent (8/2/19 Update: A-Basin has joined IKON)

[Tricia]

I would guess among front rangers the breakdown is much closer. Epic: Keystone, Breckinridge, Vail, Beavercreek. Ikon: Copper, Winter Park, Steamboat, Aspen(4 mountains), Abasin. Yes, Epic has Telluride and Crested Butte but I am not sure how those play into a purchase by people living on the front range.

When we were at Crested Butte last year to ski with @Jack skis we bumped into a handful of front rangers who said that they'd been meaning to come down to ski CB but since its a distance, it took them a bit, and were happy they made the trip finally. "Why did we wait so long." kind of vibe.
Jack may have a better sense of the epic impact.

61 - A day in the life of Jack Skis

Back Story on how we ended up in Crested Butte Many of our members here on SkiTalk are familiar with the username @Jack skis, but I doubt many really know the depth of his life in the ski world and just how much passion he holds in his heart and...

www.skitalk.com

 

[Wasatchman]

@Tricia I won't even pretend to know more than @Jack skis but I'll share my experience with what we heard. When we went to Crested Butte soon after they joined the epic pass, it was one of those very rare instances we heard from both locals and employees that were actually quite happy about it.

Given Crested Butte's remote location they didn't have a crowding issue and Vail brought more financial resources as well as actually immediately paid employees more. So it was the rare instance we heard of Vail making an acquisition better. Maybe the only time I've heard that. Of course the remote location id a key component as it wasn't getting overwhelmed with crowds. Under previous ownership Crested Butte was starved for capital and employee pay was dismal even by ski resort standards.

Things might have changed but as i said, it might be the only time I've heard people actually glad they got assimilated by a Vail or Alterra. It will be interesting to hear from jack to get his view.

 

[Philpug]

I am reading that Epic needs another resort in Utah to balance things out. What resort(s) would be best to become Epic?

 

[Andy Mink]

I am reading that Epic needs another resort in Utah to balance things out. What resort(s) would be best to become Epic?

Mayflower.

 

[Jwrags]

I am reading that Epic needs another resort in Utah to balance things out. What resort(s) would be best to become Epic?

Wasatch Peak Ranch.

 

[dbostedo]

I am reading that Epic needs another resort in Utah to balance things out. What resort(s) would be best to become Epic?

Alta and Snowbird!



Sorry... didn't mean to upse...

Hey! I said I'm sorry... you can stop throwing thi

 

[PisteOff]

Alta and Snowbird!



Sorry... didn't mean to upse...

Hey! I said I'm sorry... you can stop throwing thi

 

[mikel]

Snowbasin. Grand America has decided they want a piece of 2 pies and back to Epic for Snow Basin

 

[Andy Mink]

Snowbasin. Grand America has decided they want a piece of 2 pies and back to Epic for Snow Basin

Maybe Snowbasin can honor both E and I!

 

[David Chaus]

Maybe Snowbasin can honor both E and I!

I'm sure that would make @AmyPJ very happy.

 

[David Chaus]

I am reading that Epic needs another resort in Utah to balance things out. What resort(s) would be best to become Epic?

So far, Alterra hasn't bought an VR owned resort, or vice-versa, nor IIRC a Boyne resort, so it would have to be a partner-type resort like Snowbasin, or an independent resort like Powder Mt, Brian Head, Eagle Point, Cherry Point, Beaver or Nordic Valley. And I don't think any of those would shift that many more skiers to Epic.

So ain't gonna happen.

 

[Jack skis]

@Tricia I won't even pretend to know more than @Jack skis but I'll share my experience with what we heard. When we went to Crested Butte soon after they joined the epic pass, it was one of those very rare instances we heard from both locals and employees that were actually quite happy about it.

Given Crested Butte's remote location they didn't have a crowding issue and Vail brought more financial resources as well as actually immediately paid employees more. So it was the rare instance we heard of Vail making an acquisition better. Maybe the only time I've heard that. Of course the remote location id a key component as it wasn't getting overwhelmed with crowds. Under previous ownership Crested Butte was starved for capital and employee pay was dismal even by ski resort standards.

Things might have changed but as i said, it might be the only time I've heard people actually glad they got assimilated by a Vail or Alterra. It will be interesting to hear from jack to get his view.

I've been skiing at CB thru different ownerships, maybe thru all the ownerships, but with the most recent changes, Calloway family (Georgia) to Mueller family, (Vermont) then Mueller family to Vail, there was excitement about the possibilities of new ownership. Especially the first as the Vermont family seemed to bring with it renewed energy as well as a positive track record running ski resorts. After years of proclaiming that CB wasn't Vail that change wasn't perhaps as favorably viewed, but it was generally accepted from my viewpoint. The path under Vail ownership hasn't been entirely smooth but since the change in owners I've talked to way more front rangers on lift rides. Me saying I've talked to way more front rangers cannot be taken as real statistical evidence. Are things better under Vail ownership? My guess is that some things are better some things are worse, depends on who you talk to. Or should I write upon to whom one talks.

 

[k2rider]

Mayflower.

Mayflower is going to be annexed to and managed by Deer Valley so I don't see that happening.

 

[nay]

@Tricia I won't even pretend to know more than @Jack skis but I'll share my experience with what we heard. When we went to Crested Butte soon after they joined the epic pass, it was one of those very rare instances we heard from both locals and employees that were actually quite happy about it.

Given Crested Butte's remote location they didn't have a crowding issue and Vail brought more financial resources as well as actually immediately paid employees more. So it was the rare instance we heard of Vail making an acquisition better. Maybe the only time I've heard that. Of course the remote location id a key component as it wasn't getting overwhelmed with crowds. Under previous ownership Crested Butte was starved for capital and employee pay was dismal even by ski resort standards.

Things might have changed but as i said, it might be the only time I've heard people actually glad they got assimilated by a Vail or Alterra. It will be interesting to hear from jack to get his view.

I don’t have enough history at CB to really comment, although as a real estate owner in the Gunnison Valley having more resources is a long term view.

I am certainly happy that CB is on Epic, it’s not a day trip resort, there is very little parking (about 500 spots total) so where you see heavy days are locals and full hotels. Vail did lay off a bunch of CB on mountain personnel mid-season due to the poor season in the east, so that didn’t get a bunch of cheers, but the lifts certainly continued to spin.

As a side note, A-Basin is saying their season passes will sell out by this weekend (full unrestricted) and they are no longer partnering for days with Taos and once other resort I forget offhand. Monarch is still a partner resort and since I don’t buy an A-Basin pass any longer I hope that remains.

Being at 75% of Epic capacity when Epic passholders had unlimited days and Ikon are max 7 days really just speaks to the limited days. There are a gazillion Ikon passholders and I still think A-Basin is looking to go fully independent. It took them into Dec to sell out their full season passes this season and they are selling out now this season. Unless the numbers were further restricted, that says a lot…

 

[nay]

I think it's the given tone from the canyons thread that all visitors to Utah are douchebags ruining it for everyone else

Yea it can’t just possibly be everybody who lives there and wants to ski every big powder day.

On of my son’s good friends moved to SLC after college graduation (Western CO in Gunnison) because is girlfriend is studying environmental law at U of U. I asked him about enjoying the all time winter.

His response: “Yea, I have skied waist deep powder and that’s awesome, but it takes me 2 hours to get there (he lives near the state capital). I would take Crested Butte over this 90% of the time because at CB I could just ski all the time without the insanity.”

That’s the reality anymore - you are either tied to a big city with increasing pressure on ski area access or you are not. It is going to get a lot worse.

 

[Jwrags]

Tossing out regulatory issues and ignoring financial considerations, it would be interesting to know where in the lower 48 are mountains with appropriate terrain and consistent snowfall for a decently large ski resort. It seems as if there needs to be new development even though I now it will never happen because of the above caveats.

 

[Bad Bob]

Tossing out regulatory issues and ignoring financial considerations, it would be interesting to know where in the lower 48 are mountains with appropriate terrain and consistent snowfall for a decently large ski resort. It seems as if there needs to be new development even though I now it will never happen because of the above caveats.

Look at Soldier Mountain, ID. They have the water rights for snow making on the lower mountain and they hod the Forest Service permits for expanding way up above the current top of the lift system. Lots of privately held land around the base too and the small existing town of Fairfield couple of mile of flat driving away from the base area.
About an hours drive from Sun Valley.

 

[Tricia]

Hey folks, I deleted 16 posts in this thread.
Some that touched on political attitudes.
Some that touched on other controversial topics.
Some that quoted those but weren't really offensive other than relating to those post were deleted.
And some that were just infighting.

Sheesh, you're better than this.

Edit to add:
FWIW, it makes sense to compare the difference in how IKON has impacted resorts in Utah compared to resorts in Colorado but we don't need to turn this into another Utah Canyons shit show thread.

 

[nay]

FWIW, it makes sense to compare the difference in how IKON has impacted resorts in Utah compared to resorts in Colorado but we don't need to turn this into another Utah Canyons shit show thread.

The idea that LCC is becoming worse than I-70 after all of the LCC gloating over the years is not something we are going to let lay quietly.

I am not remotely better than that (although I have mostly given up on I-70 being worth it).

The whole thing is quite the topic on how the ski industry is struggling and most name brand resorts are essentially unbearable.

 

[dbostedo]

how the ski industry is struggling

Overcrowding and too much traffic means the ski industry is struggling? (I guess I'm taking struggling to mean "not doing well"... though I guess you could have meant "struggling to better serve customers".)