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dbostedo

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How do you get growth without crowding???
Three ways possibly.... figure out how to get people to visit more at non-peak times, get more people to visit less popular resorts, and open more resorts (or close less of them).

On that last point, the total number of US resorts has continued to go down, though not hugely. I think that, combined with a focus on the more popular resorts and times, has created a lot of the crowding.

Personally, I've been averaging like 25 days a year the last few seasons, spread across the midA, New England, and western trips. And in the last 5 years, I've probably had 3 or 4 days I'd have called crowded, out of ~125 days skied.
 
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crosscountry

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Three ways possibly.... figure out how to get people to visit more at non-peak times, get more people to visit less popular resorts, and open more resorts (or close less of them).
New resort opening? When was the last time a new resort opened (not a resurrection of defunct ones)?

Getting people to visit at non-peak days has already happening, to the point that people complaining about mid-week, non-powder days being rather busy, especially in many of the northeast mega-resorts.

The other "non-peak day", aka, non-powder days, or worse, skating ring days, I doubt will work. As in my post, if you're limited to only 5 or 7 days to A-basin, will you use it on a day of zero visibility? What kind of incentives can you offer for them to come and use up their "limited" days?

As for the less popular resorts, depends on how you count. The overall visitation is up. Many of the "less popular" resorts don't have the lift infrastructure to handle "more visitation" except perhaps on non-peak days.

Growth will result in crowding. There's no escaping it. It's our expectation that need to be changed. Crowding will get worse. The resorts need the money from "growth". Or we're ready to pay more to keep the "growth" in check?
 
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nay

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There is more margin in $15 hot dogs and $50 parking than in ski passes.

You can fully pay for a Loveland season pass simply in the gas savings over the pass to A-Basin and a tier lower pricing for a daily beer and lunch. It only takes about 25 days.

And Loveland is already independent and has better snow. At least until April 1st.
 

S.H.

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There is more margin in $15 hot dogs and $50 parking than in ski passes.

You can fully pay for a Loveland season pass simply in the gas savings over the pass to A-Basin and a tier lower pricing for a daily beer and lunch. It only takes about 25 days.

And Loveland is already independent and has better snow. At least until April 1st.
STOP TELLING PEOPLE
 

Tricia

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Loveland has better snow than A-basin? Just curious

Only in fall, IME.
I don't have a ton of experience at Loveland, but I've skied there at least one or two days a season when we're in Colorado, so this is a question more than a comment.

It seems to me that the snow quality between LL and A-Basin can be dependent on how the snow comes in and which side of the pass gets the goods. Am I right?

I just remember times when it seemed like snow dumped on one side of the pass and not the other.
 

Brian Finch

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How do you get growth without crowding???
This is all due to the downfall of the ski instructor. PSIA has lost all swagger & folks don’t even try to learn how to ski or even learn to walk in ski boots anymore. We had to invent GripWalk bc folks couldnt figure out walking anymore ;)


It’s all become about the craft beers & IG. It’s not the masses, it’s the bottle necking.
 

SBrown

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I don't have a ton of experience at Loveland, but I've skied there at least one or two days a season when we're in Colorado, so this is a question more than a comment.

It seems to me that the snow quality between LL and A-Basin can be dependent on how the snow comes in and which side of the pass gets the goods. Am I right?

I just remember times when it seemed like snow dumped on one side of the pass and not the other.

It's not the amount I'm thinking of; Loveland probably gets a little more. It's the wind, exposure, etc. There are a lot more places to find good snow at ABasin than at Loveland, because there are more aspects, more trees, more variety. Early season, the manmade is better at Loveland, though. The runs are wider and not as steep as what ABasin opens early, so you don't get the skidding and subsequent scraped-off firmness.
 

Tricia

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It's not the amount I'm thinking of; Loveland probably gets a little more. It's the wind, exposure, etc. There are a lot more places to find good snow at ABasin than at Loveland, because there are more aspects, more trees, more variety. Early season, the manmade is better at Loveland, though. The runs are wider and not as steep as what ABasin opens early, so you don't get the skidding and subsequent scraped-off firmness.
Ah, that makes sense.
When we skied there for the demo this year(January 24-45) the snow was pretty good. We went up to the top and it was horrible, mostly because it was wind scoured. But then it created some snow load in random pockets.
IMG_4488.jpeg
 
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nay

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But then it created some snow load in random pockets.
That’s it - the consistency of the wind blowing in snow over the ridge into various aspects. A-Basin doesn’t wind load very well until East Wall season although Beavers has changed that down in the trees.

My favorite places to ski always have snow blowing in over a ridge - there are aspects at Monarch that are almost always excellent, Loveland and Breck are obvious.

Not everybody likes to hunt high alpine wind load, but that’s the beauty - most people haven’t figured out that tracking the wind is more important for every day skiing than tracking storms. The answer to what skis you need for hard snow is always best answered by never skiing any hard snow.
 

Tricia

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That’s it - the consistency of the wind blowing in snow over the ridge into various aspects. A-Basin doesn’t wind load very well until East Wall season although Beavers has changed that down in the trees.

My favorite places to ski always have snow blowing in over a ridge - there are aspects at Monarch that are almost always excellent, Loveland and Breck are obvious.

Not everybody likes to hunt high alpine wind load, but that’s the beauty - most people haven’t figured out that tracking the wind is more important for every day skiing than tracking storms. The answer to what skis you need for hard snow is always best answered by never skiing any hard snow.
From my perspective, @SBrown is right in that its easier to find good snow consistently at A-Basin. And as an outsider who only skis LL a few days a year, it would take me awhile to figure out how to hunt for those pockets.

The minute I read her post I had an "aha" moment about this aspect.
 

Ken_R

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This is all due to the downfall of the ski instructor. PSIA has lost all swagger & folks don’t even try to learn how to ski or even learn to walk in ski boots anymore. We had to invent GripWalk bc folks couldnt figure out walking anymore ;)


It’s all become about the craft beers & IG. It’s not the masses, it’s the bottle necking.
\Pin This Post
 

Ken_R

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From my perspective, @SBrown is right in that its easier to find good snow consistently at A-Basin. And as an outsider who only skis LL a few days a year, it would take me awhile to figure out how to hunt for those pockets.

The minute I read her post I had an "aha" moment about this aspect.

Usually better snow at LL just because there is much less skier usage. Less skiers plus wind buff = creamy goodness most days. That said A-Basin has more options in regards to aspects and terrain so it consistently can offer great skiing no matter the weather. The Beavers really improved A-Basin in a very signifiant way. Again, that said LL is awesome and I will always gravitate to it.
 

James

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Interesting. When we were at Abasin last year in May, the small local crew just bitched about the Beavers. Then didn’t even believe us about the pow we’d just skied there until we went there. The groomer was a sun baked partially refrozen mess though.
 

SBrown

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The best thing about the Beavers is that it spreads people out on the hill. I have had some good runs in there, but it isn't my favorite, and yes, that "blue" is pretty much always horrific.
 

Drahtguy Kevin

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The best thing about the Beavers is that it spreads people out on the hill. I have had some good runs in there, but it isn't my favorite, and yes, that "blue" is pretty much always horrific.
Spreading people out is my favorite thing about The Beavers as well. The tourists love it. I’ve had fun back there, but more fun in other areas.
 

Ken_R

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Exactly, Beavers spreads people out away from a lot of other areas. It offers great skiing on occasion as well.
 

dusty

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“the consistency of the wind blowing in snow over the ridge into various aspects”
more like the consistency of the wind to create Sastrugi. I’ll take wind blown on the spine over anything off the ridge. Wind blown in on upper OTR though is decent.
 

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