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Individual Review Augment Skis -- Buyer Beware

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Mike King

AKA Habacomike
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This is going to be a negative review and it isn't necessarily about the ski itself, but it is more about the difficulty of dealing with an agent who is not customer focused, sells only through the internet, and the lack of recourse one has when the agent doesn't care about their customers or their reputation. So maybe if you buy an Augment your experience will be grand. But it is also possible, based on my experience, that it will be less than desirable.

I bought an Augment AM77 ski based on the reviews of the ski here on SkiTalk, the reputation of Augment as a race based hand-built ski from Austria, and the recommendations of a fellow ski instructor who skis on a Croc (the precursor to Augment) FIS SL ski. I was looking for a traditional fully cambered ski with a width in the mid-70s to take my Level 3 exam on and to be an all-mountain ski replacing my Kastle MX84. Unfortunately, Kastle decided to add early rise to the MX83, the replacement ski in Kastle's lineup for the MX84, otherwise I would've stayed on the Kastle platform given that I've got 6 skis in the rotation: a SL, a GS, the MX84, the MX98, the TX98 (for skinning), and a BMX128 (only skied in Kashmir -- perhaps never again). It's difficult to demo skis in Colorado with the characteristics I was looking for: vertical sidewall, mid-70's at the waist, 15-18 m radius, fully cambered with no early rise, so I decided to take a chance on the Augments. I placed an order, and the skis arrived quickly.

I was excited to see what the ski would do, so I took it out and laid it down in carved medium radius turns. It stuck to the snow with incredible grip. My Carv units were showing that I was achieving edge angles in the mid 60's to low 70s. So far, I'm impressed. But I needed to work on my short turns. And the ski was incredibly grabby in anything other than a pure carved turn.

I emailed the distributor and asked what the edge and base bevel angles were. He replied that the side bevel should be 1.5 degrees, which I doubted, as I would expect an edge angle of 2 or 3 degrees and a base bevel of something like .5 or 1 degree. In the interim, my coach and I put a straight edge on the base of both skis and found that the skis were railed -- edge high. So I sent an email back indicating that the skis were quite edge high and wanted the angles to give to the shop for it to be ground level with appropriate edge and base angles being established. The response was that the information was in the technical file. I then asked where I could find the technical file, and was told that it had too much detailed information to be provided to the public, but they would answer my questions to the best of their ability. By this time, the shop already had the ski to be fixed, and I asked them to apply my standard 1 degree base bevel and 3 degree edge.

When the ski came back from the shop, it was still grabby on anything other than a pure carved turn. The shop said that the ski was very railed and that they had to remove a lot of material to fix it. I asked the distributor what they would do to make the situation right, and the response was a) we will get you a new set of skis and b) we've only had this happen once before but in that case the shop we took the ski to said it was not railed but it was just that the base structure was aggressive. In other words, the distributor implied I didn't know what I was talking about. Here's the email from the distributor:

I’m sorry to hear this. We can definitely make it right. Did you happen to take any pictures of the ski with a tru-bar on it? I’m a little concerned because we’ve only ever had one ski reported as being railed by a customer and a ski shop and as a result we took the ski to a race shop here and they said that the ski looked great. The issue was the specific Montana machine grind that was a bit aggressive. Podium Ski Shop here in Park City nailed it without us feeding them any information. They told us that some shops perceive the ski as being railed but in fact it’s a great quality product and that the ski was just fine. They re-ground the skis for the customer to reduce the structure and that customer has come back for more since so my concern is that you’ve gotten similar advice that is making you down on the skis and brand and the skis were just fine.​

Given that a $1,000 ski had just been ground and still wasn't right, I told the distributor that I would like a new ski. He agreed, and asked me to send the originals back. I boxed them up and sent them off, expecting that the new skis would be on their way. I inquired about the status a couple of days later, and he told me that they would be sent off that day. After 3 more days, I sent an email inquiring about a tracking number. Here was the response:


You’ll have a tracking number within the hour. We had to wait for new boxes that were delivered too late on Friday to get boxed in time.​
We’re taking the old and new skis to the local race shop today as well. I was just measuring the edges on the returned pair of skis and they are exactly the same thickness as the brand new off the shelf skis. All edges measure 1.9mm. Also, 1/16th of an inch is 1.5mm so that would mean that the shop that you used took off almost half of the edge. What was that shop’s name again? We’d like to give them a call to discuss what they saw and what they did to the skis.​

I sent the name of the shop. Next, I received this email:

Podium Ski in Park City has the new pair of skis and they are going to get them ready for you and ship them out tomorrow, Wednesday at the latest. They said the skis should be perfectly tuned and you will love them.​
The owner of Podium had some interesting things to say about the skis that you sent back. The original skis were not re-ground at all. Our factory grind was quite obvious still and the base is flat save for a small area in the shovel of one ski that they agreed would not affect anything and that they said does happen to skis frequently enough. They said that the base bevel was changed but not for the better, they went too far the other way and they said that this made the skis pretty much un-skiable. They’re going to return them to factory setting at 0.7 and 3.​

I replied with this email.

The ski after evidently a poor job of tuning by XXX was marginally better to ski than the original. The original was pretty much unskiiable in anything other than a pure carve turn. Extremely grabby as it was after the lousy tune by XXX. I will stay away from that shop going forward.​
I generally tune my own skis at 1 and 3, so I do know what a ski with that tune should ski like. Unfortunately, due to the logistics here, I will be taking my Level 3 exam on Thursday and Friday on a Kastle MX84.​

The response from the distributor:

You just confirmed what Podium also said. The reason that they have the new skis is because they said our factory edges are very sharp and while good, should be detuned a little with a gummy out of the box or they will be too grabby. They said that it would give the impression that the skis are railed but the ski is just fine.​
Understood about the test. We wish that it was on the Augments but we know you’ll be happy in the long run.​
I’m tempted to send you back the original pair with a fresh Podium tune so you can confirm that the skis are good.​

I received a box of skis 5 days later. It was the original skis. No new skis. I was flabbergasted, so I sent an email stating that I was surprised to receive the original skis, not the new skis as agreed. After no response for another 4 days, this morning I received the following email:

We are sorry for all of the trouble that you have had to go through regarding this pair of Augment AM77s but we know that you will be happy now. The other day when we were discussing what Jeff at Podium Skis was saying about the skis, I did mention that I was planning to send the same skis back to you. Following is my rationale.​
You mentioned that the skis were “railed” and that they were unskiable. The reality is that the skis come with sharp edges from the factory and it’s standard practice to gummy stone the tips and tails before use. This is something that retailers do as a common practice but when you get skis direct from the factory/distributor, it’s important to remember. We would never gummy stone a pair of skis for a customer because many of our customers want to be the ones in charge of the edges and don’t want us messing with them.​
Going back to the “railed comment”. You mentioned that XXX ground the skis and removed a lot of the factory edge. Sunset Sports did not grind the skis, they did not remove any of the factory edge other than their bad tune. The edges measure exactly the same as a brand new off the shelf pair of skis and the comment from you that the skis were “railed by a 1/16th of an inch” is not true. That is 1.5mm and the edges are at 1.9mm out of the factory as are the skis that you own.​
Who you should be upset with is XXX. Whomever they put on your skis to make the edges better, is exactly the person who caused the only true problem in this entire discussion and review process. They reversed the bevel and made the skis unskiable. You should have a frank discussion with them about this and ask for your money back.​
At this point we have paid $140 for a top of the line treatment from Podium Skis to bring your skis back to the level that you were looking for. We also paid to ship them back to you. So while we are out nearly $200 at this point for this service to return your skis to a great performing pair of skis, due to a bad tune by XXX, these skis in no way qualify for a return of money or exchange for new skis.​
If you want to discuss with XXX the possibility that they buy you a new pair of skis for you and you give them that pair, that is up to you. We have confirmed through all of this process that our skis were delivered as promised and that the issues were not a result of a bad production or quality control process.​
When we offered new skis, we were under the impression that while the quality control is very stringent from Austria, that you as a PSIA instructor and somebody who likes to tunes their own skis, were very knowledgeable and that we were in fact dealing with a pair of skis that slipped through the cracks on quality control and were sent to us from the factory railed and were in need of replacement. As the facts and truth came to light that the skis were not railed, and originally only needed a two minute gummy stone treatment, followed unfortunately by a bad tune from XXX, we no longer felt that these skis qualified for replacement. As the skis are now, they have been returned to a top level performing ski as they were out of the factory. YYYY assured us that there was minimal edge taken away and while reversed, it was easy for him to return the edges to the correct settings. We trust his judgement on the edges given that he was comparing your skis to a brand new pair as a baseline and he was able to pick up our factory settings of 3 & 0.7 on the edges from the brand new pair. He has a level of experience and expertise with ski edges that we can trust.​
The original pair of skis that you purchased will now perform as they should have from the factory and you will be very happy with them once you are able to get back out onto the snow with them. We look forward to hearing your feedback once that happens.​

So, here's the facts:

  1. The skis were definitely railed. Three people confirmed it. The distributor chooses to assume that three knowledgeable professionals do not know what they are talking about.
  2. I've been treated as a simpleton who doesn't recognize what a great product I had access to. If you want to feel dissed, feel free to do business with these folk.
  3. I can't recommend this brand simply due to the experience I've had with them. Promises made, and none kept.
  4. I ski my skis tuned sharp from tip to tail with 1 and 3. I know what a sharp ski skis like, and I can turn a freshly tuned sharp ski inside a carved radius without it grabbing.
Mike
 

James

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Has the shop been able to tune them properly?
 

fatbob

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Shabby from anyone. Very shabby for a supposedly premium ski brand. At the point they committed to sending you a new replacement ski rather than proving that you/your shop were wrong was where they should have dropped it and got that ski, properly prepped, sent to you express.

Sidebar: there is too much of the "well the last guy did a terrible job" excuse making in the industry. Wanna know why some consumers end up taking anything anyone that they do not know personally with a huge pinch of salt?
 

fatbob

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Also when will some businesses wise up? A customer issue resolved by getting it right second time and you get an advocate for life i.e. shit happens but they can be depended to make it good. Compound the wrong by pettiness or prevarication and what happens?

You presumably told them you were a L3 candidate and mentioned coaching - naive at best to not recognise your likely level of knowledge/ability and capacity to be an influencer.
 

Philpug

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This experience is very disappointing. We have had more than a dozen pairs of Augments though our hands and have skied a dozen more at tests and none have had tune issues. In fact I would say that they have been one of the most consistent tunes out of the box (even b stock blemished samples) of any brand we have skied especially in this quantity. @Mike King as an instructor and skier of another premium brand along with being a wood craftsman is very aware of tolerances and what is acceptable and not. He is also aware that new skis very well need tuning from time to time.

Shit happens, bad factory tunes happen but it is the way that has been communicated and addressed is the main issue and it sounds like the ball was dropped more than once after numeorus opportunities to get it corrected compounding the frustration.
 
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Mike King

Mike King

AKA Habacomike
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This experience is very disappointing. We have had more than a dozen pairs of Augments though our hands and have skied a dozen more at tests and none have had tune issues. In fact I would say that they have been one of the most consistent tunes out of the box (even b stock blemished samples) of any brand we have skied especially in this quantity. @Mike King as an instructor and skier of another premium brand along with being a wood craftsman is very aware of tolerances and what is acceptable and not. He is also aware that new skis very well need tuning from time to time.

Shit happens, bad factory tunes happen but it is the way that has been communicated and addressed is the main issue and it sounds like the ball was dropped more than once after numeorus opportunities to get it corrected compounding the frustration.
Exactly Phil.
 

James

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I've been treated as a simpleton who doesn't recognize what a great product I had access to.
Ski industry in a nutshell.
Imagine your kid buys a used car. Salesman says the body is titanium. Kid comes home, hits it with a hanmer expecting it to bounce off. It doesn’t. You march over there and confront the salesman about this titanium nonsense. He shows you a video where the head of North American sales says it’s made of titanium, (Fischer). Only in the ski industry.

Only possible resolution is numbers. Maybe. ocument the actual problems. Like base bevel is x here there etc. ski edge is base high by y thousandths. This takes a lot of work, and the only person I know who does it is @ScottB. Maybe he’ll share technique of assesment.

Otherwise it just gets into “I tuned those riight”

You can spend half a million dollars on a machine that’ll tune 60 skis an hour, but can’t spend any amount on a machine that can tell it did a good job.

Only in the ski industry. Because everyone is a simpleton.
 

Nancy Hummel

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A premium ski should be accompanied with premium customer service. Dismissing the customer’s experience is not premium customer service.

These skis were brand new and the problem identified the first time Mike skied on the skis.

Why not just replace the skis and have a happy customer?

I was intrigued by these skis but after hearing Mike’s experience, have no interest in trying them.
 

GB_Ski

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I agree with James. Ski industry is like car dealership. Manufacturers farm out support to dealerships in order to help dealerships to make money by treating all customers as simpletons. I emailed Head about missing binding DIN window cover, they told me to ask local shops. Closest local shops won't just sell me the part, I need to bring the skis in for repair. Head could've just grab a $2 part, mail it to me and I would probably be a Head supporter for life.
 

Dakine

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Mike, I guess I'm the lucky one.
I ordered a pair of AM77's a in March , 2020 after reading the great reviews here.
To make a long story short, I paid twice, got refunded twice, never got the skis and got a load of total BS from the rep about how they would be here in a few days.
Recently, the rep, Geoff Hurwitch, sent me a letter of apology for all the confusion and asked me to order again.
I understand that launching a new brand in the middle of a pandemic is problematic but getting jacked around for months with one false claim after another is just disrespectful.
I even had an Austrian friend contact the president of Augment but still all I got was promises.

I didn't really need the skis but wanted to compare them to my Blossom Whiteouts and then sell the pair I liked least.
I had ordered a Marker piston plate/Xcel setup for the Augment vaporware and, once I cancelled dealings with Augment, the bindings sat on my shelf.
So, to try something really different, I ordered some Blossom #1SC's, the softest, most torsionally rigid ski I have ever seen.
Phil called these skis "a pure finesse ski."
They are and are more fun than I could have imagined.
Except, I loaned them to a friend who liked them so much he wouldn't give them back.
So I ordered a second pair from Mike McK at Premier Skis and they showed up as advertised without drama.
Mike gives exceptional customer service and attention to detail and if you want to deal with a rep that is respectful instead of arrogant use Mike McK.

Mike H......ya shoulda' bought the Blossoms.
They give up a bit of power compared to my Hero Masters 18 but do everything else a Level 3 needs to be able to do really well.
IMG_3310.JPG
 
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Philpug

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I agree with James. Ski industry is like car dealership. Manufacturers farm out support to dealerships in order to help dealerships to make money by treating all customers as simpletons. I emailed Head about missing binding DIN window cover, they told me to ask local shops. Closest local shops won't just sell me the part, I need to bring the skis in for repair. Head could've just grab a $2 part, mail it to me and I would probably be a Head supporter for life.
I will not support the blanket dismissals in this or any industry. I will give Head a pass on the binding window ...that could be a liability issue controlled by their insurance provider. As far as just grabbing a $2 part? It is rarely that simple. have you ever been in one of these warehouses? But I see your dismay.
 

markojp

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While I absolutely agree that Mike had a poor experience, I'm certainly not going to jump on the 'well, that's the ski industry ' BS bus. We sell a bunch of skis. I've seen poor or less than optimal bases from every single brand on the wall including Stockli and Kastle. One brand we don't send out the door without an overhaul, but we think they ski great, so that's why we take care of it. This year's Head Titan base structure is crazy aggressive and deep. It won't go sideways. We just re-structure them and make it right. On occasion, even then, a customer will bring back a ski after a regrind.... and we do what's necessary. At that point though, the customer may have simply bought the wrong ski. (Not implying at all this is what Mike did... don't go there.) We take it back, credit the customer, and find them a better ski for their needs. If that ski needs attention, we give it. I have no idea if this is 'industry ' practice, but I think it pokes a pretty big hole in the 'the whole ski industry' junk being foisted off by the usual suspects. If I were that down on an entire industry, I'd walk away and find something else to do with my time and money. Sorry for the small r rant. Carry on. Hopefully Augment will get wind of this and get things sorted out.
 

markojp

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I agree with James. Ski industry is like car dealership. Manufacturers farm out support to dealerships in order to help dealerships to make money by treating all customers as simpletons. I emailed Head about missing binding DIN window cover, they told me to ask local shops. Closest local shops won't just sell me the part, I need to bring the skis in for repair. Head could've just grab a $2 part, mail it to me and I would probably be a Head supporter for life.

There's a reason they won't just sell you the part. It's a binding, and as such, leaves everyone open to liability if anything . Yes, it's less than optimal, but there you go.
 

fatbob

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Can we leave out the "usual suspects" antagonism? Of course there are many good and great guys in the industry - question is why can't everyone get to that level? Is the product manufacturing tolerance ultimately too wide?

Or is it as simple as a complete finished product can't be supplied consistently for the price customers demand? Bearing in mind that retail customers aren't getting the pro-form hookups etc. While it's encouraging that there are stores like yours that take their responsibility to check and correct product seriously it's not a ringing endorsement of "whole industry" when you say you have to do it with all brands.
 
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GB_Ski

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There's a reason they won't just sell you the part. It's a binding, and as such, leaves everyone open to liability if anything . Yes, it's less than optimal, but there you go.
It's the window cover, not DIN. As far as liability, is that really true or just some excuses we use? I can replace everything in my car myself and car makers aren't liable for it, same goes for bikes, etc.
 

markojp

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It's the window cover, not DIN. As far as liability, is that really true or just some excuses we use? I can replace everything in my car myself and car makers aren't liable for it, same goes for bikes, etc.

Like I said, bindings are a huge liability issue. You know those forms we casually fill out for testing? They're legal documents. We keep them for 5 years. Talk to the legal industry. It's their creation.
 

markojp

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Can we leave out the "usual suspects" antagonism? Of course there are many good and great guys in the industry - question is why can't everyone get to that level? Is the product manufacturing tolerance ultimately too wide?

Or is it as simple as a complete finished product can't be supplied consistently for the price customers demand? Bearing in mind that retail customers aren't getting the pro-form hookups etc. While it's encouraging that there are stores like yours that take their responsibility to check and correct product seriously it's not a ringing endorsement of "whole industry" when you say you have to do it with all brands.

Bob, the day you say, " you know, this is really great, I had an excellent experience" about anything, then I'll believe it. :roflmao:
 

fatbob

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Bob, the day you say, " you know, this is really great, I had an excellent experience" about anything, then I'll believe it. :roflmao:
I have had an excellent experience with all the skis and snowboards I have owned from a variety of brands - shout out to Volkl, Whitedot, Icelantic, Prior, Fischer, Faction, Ride, Line (pre K2) etc. I have had many many great days including some I will remember until dementia takes me in a variety of countries around the world.

I have also demoed sucky skis and sucky boots where the rep has been like you overly aggressive toward me and my skill level rather than considering the critique and possible challenges I have raised. And yes the odd resort employee who has decided being an asshat was his objective for the day and many unsatisfactory or unclear customer service enquiries. Should I pretend they don't exist.

Care to answer the question rather than playing ad hom?
 
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