Avalanche Fatality - Berthoud Pass should become a ski area again

[Tricia]

If you want a ski reopened and a wedding venue opened, just say that.

Thinly veiling it as a response to an avalanche fatality and public safety is so tacky.

Yeah, that's kind of why this thread is unsettling to me.

Also just dropped today from CAIC: "Since the winter 2009 - 2010 almost 16% of fatal avalanche accidents in Colorado occurred when people left a ski area to recreate in the backcountry."

I honestly feel that making Berthoud a resort again would result more accidents of all types, including fatal avalanches, because of the "sidecountry" problem. Yes, proximity to the road is a factor making Berthoud a junk show much of the time, but proximity to a ski area is most likely even worse, because of the false sense of security it brings.

So -- let's drop the avalanche safety canard and focus on some other reasons to reopen Berthoud.

I was thinking this when the recent fatality at Breck came up.
Building a resort doesn't guarantee reduction of avvy deaths.

I just watched Buried the 1982 Alpine Meadows Avalanch documentary last night for the 2nd time.
7 deaths in one avalanch in bounds.

And wasn't there a stat earlier in this thread that there have only been a few deaths on BP since the resort closed? That would mean that there have been more avalanch deaths in resorts than BP in the same amount of time.

 

[Tricia]

^^^ I want what he’s smokin’! “Free” doesn’t pay the bills, especially when damn near everything would need to be built.

 

[tball]

Yeah, that's kind of why this thread is unsettling to me.

I was thinking this when the recent fatality at Breck came up.
Building a resort doesn't guarantee reduction of avvy deaths.

I just watched Buried the 1982 Alpine Meadows Avalanch documentary last night for the 2nd time.
7 deaths in one avalanch in bounds.

And wasn't there a stat earlier in this thread that there have only been a few deaths on BP since the resort closed? That would mean that there have been more avalanch deaths in resorts than BP in the same amount of time.

For years, I've consistently made the case that easily accessible avalanche terrain should be made safer by bringing it inbounds and mitigated.

This isn't only about my desire that Berthoud Pass become a ski area again. We can discuss two related things at the same time.

I've argued that Loveland Pass, The Beavers, East Vail, Bear Creek off Telluride, and probably others should all be managed differently to prevent further deaths. I feel the same way about the recent side-country death off Breck.

Tacky is in the eye of the beholder. To me, it's tacky to see a senseless and preventable death of a father and schoolteacher and not want any changes.

More education isn't the answer when people continue to make stupid choices where they know better, and the most educated are often dying in avalanches. Education is necessary but not sufficient.

Powder is a drug that causes poor decision making, and I think we should make it more difficult to make a deadly decision.

 

[Andy Mink]

could also be a liability issue

We call those things "attractive nuisances", at least in the Parks business. Old playgrounds, boardwalks that can't be repaired, an old water slide, etc. Take them down or suffer the stupidity of someone who gets hurt while climbing over the "Keep Off" sign.

 

[Tricia]

@tball if what you're saying makes so much sense then why are you the only one in this thread who feels that way?
And...why hasn't it been done?

I don't really expect an answer.
But...really, there are a handful of people I know who dig their heels in and don't give up. You're one of them.

Maybe you need to buy a mega millions ticket and see if you can make your own dreams come true.

 

[SBrown]

For years, I've consistently made the case that easily accessible avalanche terrain should be made safer by bringing it inbounds and mitigated.

This isn't only about my desire that Berthoud Pass become a ski area again. We can discuss two related things at the same time.

I've argued that Loveland Pass, The Beavers, East Vail, Bear Creek off Telluride, and probably others should all be managed differently to prevent further deaths. I feel the same way about the recent side-country death off Breck.

Tacky is in the eye of the beholder. To me, it's tacky to see a senseless and preventable death of a father and schoolteacher and not want any changes.

More education isn't the answer when people continue to make stupid choices where they know better, and the most educated are often dying in avalanches. Education is necessary but not sufficient.

Powder is a drug that causes poor decision making, and I think we should make it more difficult to make a deadly decision.

Dude, the nanny state you seem to want to live in would eventually shut down ALL ski areas.

 

[Philpug]

I am all aboard with you Tball ... as long as its eMTB friendly come the off season.

 

[Andy Mink]

I am all aboard with you Tball ... as long as its eMTB friendly come the off season.

USFS and Ebikes:

 

[tball]

@tball if what you're saying makes so much sense then why are you the only one in this thread who feels that way?
And...why hasn't it been done?

I don't really expect an answer.
But...really, there are a handful of people I know who dig their heels in and don't give up. You're one of them.

Maybe you need to buy a mega millions ticket and see if you can make your own dreams come true.

Berthoud Pass Ski Area shut down twenty years ago. I'm the only one who spent considerable time skiing there when it was a ski area, while there are a bunch of vocal current users who understandably don't want it to change.

If it's a popularity contest, the FS should survey front range residents to see if they prefer Berthoud Pass as a ski area.

 

[tball]

I am all aboard with you Tball ... as long as its eMTB friendly come the off season.

USFS and Ebikes:

eMTBs would make a ton of sense at Berthoud Pass Ski Area. I think e-bikes are a great addition to mountain biking within a ski area where you have designated up-and-down trails.

At Berthoud, I think you'd build trails (green, blue, black) that folks would lap from the lift, then other backcountry trails that take you further up and out. Given the altitude and climbing necessary, e-bikes would allow folks to access the backcountry trails they otherwise couldn't (but they shouldn't be allowed on any existing trails where they currently are not).

Copper Mountain is on USFS land and allows eMTBs on all the trails built by the ski area, just not the Colorado Trail that passes through. It would probably be the same for Berthoud and the Continental Divide Trail.

 

[pais alto]

…I'm the only one who spent considerable time skiing there when it was a ski area,…

lol

while there are a bunch of vocal current users who understandably don't want it to change.…

“the only one” vs. “a bunch of vocal current users” Yeah, I see why your POV should dominate.

 

[Drahtguy Kevin]

More education isn't the answer when people continue to make stupid choices where they know better, and the most educated are often dying in avalanches. Education is necessary but not sufficient.

Powder is a drug that causes poor decision making, and I think we should make it more difficult to make a deadly decision.

Building a ski area and making it “difficult to make a deadly decision” isn’t gonna stop people from making stupid choices. Should all the trees be cut at ski areas?Lotsa skiers die hitting trees.

 

[KingGrump]

I'm the only one who spent considerable time skiing there when it was a ski area,

Perhaps that's why they went out of business.

Skied there couple times in the early '90s. Both days there were less than 20 skiers on the hill judging by the cars in the lot. Was wondering how they stay in business.

 

[Andy Mink]

Building a ski area and making it “difficult to make a deadly decision” isn’t gonna stop people from making stupid choices. Should all the trees be cut at ski areas?Lotsa skiers die hitting trees.

I think the solution is obvious.

 

[Ken_R]

Look, I think it would be awesome to have a ski area at Berthoud Pass just like the old days. But that is separate from the making the area safer. I am just getting tired of skinning up and would love a lift there.

 

[Drahtguy Kevin]

Look, I think it would be awesome to have a ski area at Berthoud Pass just like the old days. But that is separate from the making the area safer. I am just getting tired of skinning up and would love a lift there.

I’d love a lift up Buffalo Pass, a place at the Yellowstone Club and a helicopter in the Chugatch…Hell, if we’re gonna smoke the fancy pipe we might as well load it with Joey’s best blend.

 

[KingGrump]

I think the solution is obvious.
View attachment 188329

Place will be pretty empty.

 

[SBrown]

Perhaps that's why they went out of business.

Skied there couple times in the early '90s. Both days there were less than 20 skiers on the hill judging by the cars in the lot. Was wondering how they stay in business.

One of my main memories of Berthoud was New Year's Day, probably 79 or 80? we drove up on a very chilly day, got to the parking lot, and my mom got out and said, Nope no way. It was about 10 below. (I actually just spent a few minutes trying to find historical temp data, but failed.) We turned around and drove right back home Maybe that happened too often. We did get to eat our tuna sandwiches and drink our après spiced tea (the kind with instant tea and Tang! haha) on the way back. Funny the things we remember.

I think it would be really cool to still have an area there. The 90s obviously were very different, and I bet Berthoud could be successful in the current climate if the infrastructure were still there (with the current population increase in CO). Back then, everyone just went past it toward Winter Park.

The thing is, there are literally DOZENS of resorts within driving distance that have great terrain and avalanche mitigation already. Oh, they are too crowded? Well, the old Berthoud of 20 cars in the lot isn't going to happen again, either.

 

[SBrown]

Building a ski area and making it “difficult to make a deadly decision” isn’t gonna stop people from making stupid choices. Should all the trees be cut at ski areas?Lotsa skiers die hitting trees.

And yes, this is why the "it's safer" argument needs to just go away. It's completely disingenuous. If we are serious about wanting fewer deaths, then we start crusades to stop grooming blues, especially next to trees! Shut down Mozart at Keystone. Hell, just close Eldora for good.

But that is a straw man, and we all know it. The guys at Breck went through this gate:

I am not being judgy, I have gone through such gates many times. But what ELSE can be done to save people from themselves? Close them completely? As history shows, people will still leave the area. In fact, I would put down $1000 right now that says more than one person a decade would die at Berthoud if it returned to more of a "resort" type area.

 

[jmeb]

For reference, the very first place I skied out west was berthoud pass ski area in 2000. We stayed in a trash motel near empire and skied the pass for 4 days and then drove back to Iowa.

It was one of the most formative experiences of my life. 23 years later I ski there weekly, volunteer patrol on the weekends, and work in the snow safety industry for my day job.