Avalanche Situation

[Mike King]

Colorado always has a persistent slab problem. What's making this year more dangerous? More time than average between early season snowfall and snow finally arriving?

Slow start, cold temps, and thin snowpack led to facets (very weak crystals) and those weak layers are now buried.

 

[pais alto]

Colorado always has a persistent slab problem. What's making this year more dangerous? More time than average between early season snowfall and snow finally arriving?

Yes, and...

Slow start, cold temps, and thin snowpack led to facets (very weak crystals) and those weak layers are now buried.

...yes.

 

[tball]

Mt Trelease is in Loveland's Special Use Permit area, and their upgrade plan has a nice slope gradient analysis map:

The proposed expansion looks fantastic. They will add another lift above 8 to get to the ridge, with the rest of the area served by snowcats. It should be a super fun powder haven.

This is another great example of ski area expansions making sense from a public safety point of view. Same with East Vail and many other areas contiguous with existing ski areas.

My feeling is the Forest Services should encourage ski areas to bring areas like these inbounds and mitigate them to prevent deaths and make these wonderful resources safely available to more users.

 

[dbostedo]

My feeling is the Forest Services should encourage ski areas to bring areas like these inbounds and mitigate them to prevent deaths and make these wonderful resources safely available to more users.

The problem is that it can be used safely, now (within limits obviously) for free. And moving them into resorts makes them even safer for skiing, but you have to pay for it. That's not a trade everyone wants.

 

[Jwrags]

So if Mt. Trelease is in the SUP area does that expose Loveland to liability? I hope not but in this day and age who knows.

 

[tball]

So if Mt. Trelease is in the SUP area does that expose Loveland to liability? I hope not but in this day and age who knows.

No, it's outside their current operating area. One would have to cut a ski area boundary rope or exit the backcountry access gate to get over there. I'm not sure the backcountry gate's location helps much, though, since it's so low. In either case, no liability.

 

[Doug Briggs]

In 'normal' years when 9 is open, don't people go out of bounds (via a gate) and traverse over to Trelease?

 

[tball]

^^^ There's a trailhead at the Loveland Pass exit plus a gate near the bottom of 8. I've only hiked from the I-70 trailhead in the summer. Not sure which access most skiers use.

I put a red circle at the approximate location of the backcountry gate. I don't think there's another gate up higher, but someone please correct me if I'm wrong.

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[jmeb]

In 'normal' years when 9 is open, don't people go out of bounds (via a gate) and traverse over to Trelease?

No. You could theoretically ski off Golden Bear into Dry Gulch by ducking a rope. But that is a far more round-about way to get up to Trelease than just skinning up the southern face.

I could see a version of Bluebird Backcountry type setup being applied to the trelease zone.

 

[Doug Briggs]

I've never done the out of bounds experience at LL so I was going from hearsay/failed memory ;-). Maybe I was just thinking about the ridge access that is now serviced by the Ridgecat.

 

[Jwrags]

Where on the map that @tball posted did the avalanche occur?

 

[Mike King]

So if Mt. Trelease is in the SUP area does that expose Loveland to liability? I hope not but in this day and age who knows.

The Colorado Skier Safety Act absolves ski area operators from liability associated with avalanches.

 

[dbostedo]

Where on the map that @tball posted did the avalanche occur?

Just to the right of the blue line in the above treeline area.

 

[tball]

This map is also in the preliminary CAIC report:

CAIC

 

[Doug Briggs]

Where on the map that @tball posted did the avalanche occur?

I believe in the pink area (and to the left of it) just to the left of the Mt. Trelease label. When you are at the Valley and look across the highway, it is the prominent bowl directly across the highway.

I'm standing near the top of Twist. The bowl is the one straight up from the skier's right B-Net

 

[Tom Holtmann]

The steep parts are less than 35 degrees, per the topo maps.

And greater than 30 degrees.

 

[Doug Briggs]

The pink section I circled is the top of the slide. It is 70% or above which equates to 35 degrees or more.

Did I circle the wrong part on the map? That large area of pink is 35 degree plus terrain.

 

[dbostedo]

View attachment 124717
The pink section I circled is the top of the slide. It is 70% or above which equates to 35 degrees or more.

View attachment 124716

Did I circle the wrong part on the map? That large area of pink is 35 degree plus terrain.

I think that's the right area... FATMAP does have slightly different shading. It's probably right around 35 degrees and/or may depend on what topo maps and data underlie the shading. Caltopo shows something similar, with pockets above and below 35 degrees.

FATMAP view:

But all that said, this is clearly an area with significant terrain over the "rule of thumb" 30 degrees, which is just a rule of thumb anyway as has been discussed above regarding the Mill Creek slide.

The only point in talking about 35 degrees, was that a lot of the area is below that, so it may not be viewed as "extreme" terrain, or what folks in resorts would think is beyond any normal steepness. I was responding to a comment that it looks "relatively tame and not very steep at all". But certainly still clear avy terrain.

 

[Pequenita]

It was a great conversation...so many good nuggets in there. I don't agree with leaving your avvy pack at home. It doesn't factor into my decision making but I know if I make a mistake and/or missed something and I end up in a situation where I need it, I don't want it back home. I hope I NEVER need to use it...but I can't imagine needing it and not having it.

Something that's notable to me about several of this season's fatalities is the lack of airbags on the victims. I have to think that they didn't own them, vs. they chose not to wear them.

Slow start, cold temps, and thin snowpack led to facets (very weak crystals) and those weak layers are now buried.

"Buried" being the operative word here. Basically, the only way for the problem to go away is for the snow/layer to melt.

 

[Mike King]

Something that's notable to me about several of this season's fatalities is the lack of airbags on the victims. I have to think that they didn't own them, vs. they chose not to wear them.


"Buried" being the operative word here. Basically, the only way for the problem to go away is for the snow/layer to melt.

Or rip to ground...