Bad/horrible factory tunes

givethepigeye

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Great - so next year once they've had time to adjust to the new reality nevermore will we see such complaints. Good to know.

I dont know why but this made me chuckle and then just made me plain tired. This issue with tunes existed before COVID/illness/quarantine. Now its just the "catch all" excuse. Not that it is not a real contributory issue. But when you charge a premium for something, that doesnt mean you can deliver something less than a premium experience. Skis, cars, lodging whatever. I dont see any manufacturers saying "hey our product sucks right now, so we are going to take 10% off".

Of the skis I bought new, I have had # pairs of Nordica's ( OG Enforcers, Enforcer100, E104 and Girish) - all except Girish and OG Enforcers needed a tune. although I think the OG Enforcers got the Start Haus prep before they were shipped.
2 pairs Dynastar (old Legend 94's <- man I miss those and Mpro99's) both fine
I have had 3 pairs of Stöcklis - all SR95's - never needed a tune until I hit a rock. Kastle fine right out of the plastic. Even those not made in AUT. :)
 

East Coast Scott

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I recently had a horrible tune on a pair of skis from one of those automated machines. I hit an icy slope and was actually quite scared I was going to die, lol. They skid like I was on spoons. I told them they must be base high, they just touched up the edges and again I felt terrified. I am going to bring them to someone else. The initial tune included a base grind. Not sure why they are so bad.
 

crgildart

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This is right up there with "Employee Pricing", it is just marketing. All dealers, B&M or on line are subject to the same Minimum Advertised Pricing (MAP) policies. Actually local shops have more flexability that on line retailers in that they can have in store sales (as long as they don't advertise the price) that a on line cannot
Interesting. I thought that "internet pricing" meant that they would match any lower(?) online price the buyer alerted them to on the same product. I thought people were going in to stores to get the staff there to tell them about the products, even try on boots, then go buy them online instead because the online prices are lower. I know when I worked retail management that type of theft or services happened practically everyday. Are the ski gear prices really the same now?
 

markojp

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Great - so next year once they've had time to adjust to the new reality nevermore will we see such complaints. Good to know.
Well prepped skis without exception in my experience always ski better and are more fun than even nice out of the wrapper work. Good ski prep takes talent, experience, and time. If you're willing to pay full retail, or buying a non-discounted premium brand, then I agree, custom prep should be free. Two seasons ago we had a whole batch of SR 88's with base issues. I showed it to both the head of Stöckli US and the company marketing guy from CH who were passing through. They took note and thanked us for letting them know. We reground and fixed the skis, no problem.

MAP though is already discounted, and you're looking for more discount. I think time's better spent developing a relationship with a great tune guy/gal. I have a great relationship with the guy who does my ski prep. We've skied together and knows what I like. He'll even experiment and say, try this and let me know what you think. I guess I'm a research monkey, which I'm fine with because he'll sort it out if I don't like it. And I have no problem with someone bringing a true bar into a store, and if the skis are railed, etc..., sure, the shop should grind them. Ours (where i still do an occassional shift) does. Not an issue. All that said, dunno, maybe the skiing misantrop is just your online shtick? I hope so.
 
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firebanex

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I've never had a pair of skis with a terrible tune out of the box. I have had to make small adjustments occasionally, mostly to change the angles. I didn't really pay attention to these things before about 6 or 8 years ago when I finally started mounting and tuning my own skis.

The last pair of skis that had a tune that didn't agree with me was my Shaggy's Ahmeek 95's. Had to detune the tips and tails some more to lighten up how great they liked to stick in a turn. I suspect that mostly has to do with me and the fact that I typically ski pretty soft snow and wider skis. It didn't stop me from buying a pair of Ahmeek 115''s this year and they have been great! On the other side of things, the Fischer Ranger 102FR's I had a couple years ago came with just about the best edge and base grind I've ever seen on a ski. Absolutely beautiful and perfect out of the wrapper for me.
 

fatbob

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And I have no problem with someone bringing a true bar into a store, and if the skis are railed, etc..., sure, the shop should grind them. Ours (where i still do an occassional shift) does. Not an issue. All that said, dunno, maybe the skiing misantrop is just your online shtick? I hope so.

Not my original complaint. And re the misanthropy your own words condemn you.

Your level of service- the customer has to know enough to have a true bar and bring it with them to check the skis when buying them from your store? Then if they can prove it you'll grind them. The rest tough cookie, you're not going to proactively check on their behalf, caveat emptor. To me that's weak sauce. Like I said race to the bottom.

And re MAP come off it - that's not already getting a discount. MRSP is just in practical terms a marketing number that is used to give the customer the illusion of a real good deal. Sure in times of Covid scarcity you may have been able to sell at MRSP but it would be a very naive and shortlived retailer in any industry that made their plans around it.
 
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Tricia

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TBH, most can't tell whether its a good or bad tune. From a vendor stand point, why bother with a tune before sending it out the door? Totally wasted motion.
Can't really blame them.
For some skiers, all they know is that they don't like the ski. They have no idea its the tune.

I recently had a horrible tune on a pair of skis from one of those automated machines. I hit an icy slope and was actually quite scared I was going to die, lol. They skid like I was on spoons. I told them they must be base high, they just touched up the edges and again I felt terrified. I am going to bring them to someone else. The initial tune included a base grind. Not sure why they are so bad.

That's really unfortunate. :(
 

ThomasD

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Interesting. I thought that "internet pricing" meant that they would match any lower(?) online price the buyer alerted them to on the same product. I thought people were going in to stores to get the staff there to tell them about the products, even try on boots, then go buy them online instead because the online prices are lower. I know when I worked retail management that type of theft or services happened practically everyday. Are the ski gear prices really the same now?
That's pretty much what it has worked out to be in my experience. I think they do not expressly say "we price match" because they know they can't compete with the "fell off a truck" sorts or the larger operations that are trying to unload their very last pair of something high end.
 

James

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A shop just grinding new skis is likely not going to happen.
Should it?
It’s a lose lose as people just get pissed off.

Michael Rogan in that Fall line podcast said he just changes angles, that skis coming out from manufacturers (Blizzard specifically) are great. That’s either terribly uninformed, or a bald faced lie. Some are pretty bad.

I suspect this is partly why Stöckli has gone to 1.3-4 deg base bevel. Makes things more manageable when the base is bad.
 

markojp

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Not my original complaint. And re the misanthropy your own words condemn you.

Your level of service- the customer has to know enough to have a true bar and bring it with them to check the skis when buying them from your store? Then if they can prove it you'll grind them. The rest tough cookie, you're not going to proactively check on their behalf, caveat emptor. To me that's weak sauce. Like I said race to the bottom.

And re MAP come off it - that's not already getting a discount. MRSP is just in practical terms a marketing number that is used to give the customer the illusion of a real good deal. Sure in times of Covid scarcity you may have been able to sell at MRSP but it would be a very naive and shortlived retailer in any industry that made their plans around it.

The shop where I worked has a new ski guarantee. It doesn't do what you want, doesn't function as advertised, etc.... ? Bring it back. First thing examined is the tune/structure/flatness. Any issue, it gets redone from scratch. If you still don't like the ski, or it just isn't right, then you're credited the purchase price and we start over. We only ask that you bring it in within the first few days of use. Bringing it in hammered and well used at the end of the season won't fly. Return rates are a bit less than 1%. We also have a boot fit guarantee. I'd say we take care of the customers pretty darn well regardless of what your local experience applied to an entire industry tells you. You've clearly had poor experiences. I'm just letting you know they're not necessarily universal by any means.
 

fatbob

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So you are not letting product out the door of a poor standard and finish so why undersell yourself by saying that its on the customer to check for flatness?

I totally accept that they aren't universal - I have a friend that runs a ski shop and I know he won't let any manufacturer's errors pass him by on the way to a customer because he trades on his personal reputation and competes successfully with far bigger businesses with much shinier premises (who may employ salespersons with a passing interest in skiing alongside bikes or backpacking or whatever).

But it's also clear that they aren't strictly isolated incidents - the OP had issues with 3/3 products, now he might be particularly sensitive to things. What can the great stores like yours do to improve things for everyone?
 

Tony S

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A shop just grinding new skis is likely not going to happen.
Should it?
It absolutely should if they don't meet the "cub scout" standards re-posted by @fatbob above. That puts any issue about manufacturing quality between the ski company and the retailer, leaving the customer out of it. Which is where it should be if the retailer is to serve a useful purpose.
 

fatbob

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It absolutely should if they don't meet the "cub scout" standards re-posted by @fatbob above. That puts any issue about manufacturing quality between the ski company and the retailer, leaving the customer out of it. Which is where it should be if the retailer is to serve a useful purpose.


..and I guess I'd add ideally if the grind is going to be so severe that it materially shortens the lifespan of the ski then the retailer should reject the ski or at the very least work with the manufacturer for credit so they can give the customer a meaningful discount should they still want the ski.
 

James

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It absolutely should if they don't meet the "cub scout" standards re-posted by @fatbob above. That puts any issue about manufacturing quality between the ski company and the retailer, leaving the customer out of it. Which is where it should be if the retailer is to serve a useful purpose.
Well we do assume the shop will make them better and not worse. I don’t see that as a given unfortunately.

This situation is both on ski manufacturers and manufacturers of $300k+ tuning machines. They just ignore it and pacify people with fancy structures that are relatively meaningless.
 

Tony S

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They just ignore it and pacify people with fancy structures that are relatively meaningless.
Actually I'd be willing to bet that the average customer not only does not notice structure, but does not even know what it is for or even that it exists. But you do want to put that person out on the hill with a ski that's performing as designed, even if the skier isn't. Best chance for success and all that.
 

fatbob

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Actually I'd be willing to bet that the average customer not only does not notice structure, but does not even know what it is for or even that it exists. But you do want to put that person out on the hill with a ski that's performing as designed, even if the skier isn't. Best chance for success and all that.
I think this is where people who accuse critics of certain industry practices/outcomes of having a hatred of skiing have it totally wrong. How is wanting everybody who invests in pursuing the sport to have the best possible experience from the get go (without a buckload of caveat emptor) hating skiing? Surely its an aspirational standard anyone who cares should be working toward?
 

KingGrump

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Well we do assume the shop will make them better and not worse. I don’t see that as a given unfortunately.

This situation is both on ski manufacturers and manufacturers of $300k+ tuning machines. They just ignore it and pacify people with fancy structures that are relatively meaningless.

You are wiser than I've given you credit for.

Fancy structures are nice. Easy on the eyes. I just don't like them on my base edge. Had a pair of brand new ski from a "premium" brand (still in wrapper) with that issue early this season. That pair of skis was shipped without base bevel, but it did had a huge wicked burr on one of the base edge. :nono:
 
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