Bad/horrible factory tunes

lisamamot

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Maybe? My first skis were wooden skis without metal edges bought at a garage sale. I never tried to ski them on ice though.. Only MN farm hills..
VT here and I first skied in the early 70s at Glen Ellen, Bolton Valley and Smugglers Notch, so no farm hills, but plenty of ice. That said, my tune issue experiences started around 2016.

It seems the intent of this thread is to discuss “what has happened” with tunes recently. I am not a super skier, but I know when I am on a super crappy tune.
 

cantunamunch

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What if the bases are totally off? I demoed a Rossignol Temptation 88 (?) years ago and couldn’t even turn coming off the lift; they felt railed. After I made it down, I handed them back to the rep and told him he had an issue. He insisted they had just been tuned. While that may be true, he still had an issue. He clearly assumed it was me.

*grin* I've had that so many times I actually bring a stone to indie demo days.
 

Noodler

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In the time I was there regularly, I think I saw one customer with a true bar on sales floor. Also one with a scale. I took no personal offense to either, but I wasn't going to argue real vs. published weight discrepancies. I'm not a gram counter, as I only really care how a ski skis. There's a true bar at the Montana that's used and used a lot.

So what do great stores do to improve things for everyone? By providing great service and product, they get people to shop there. They're having a record sales season this year. Some businesses succeed, others fail. Can't really do much more than that.

A scale is actually not a bad idea. Not so much to verify against published numbers, but rather to verify that the two skis are roughly equal. A large discrepancy in weight between two skis in a pair is a clear indication of a QA problem in the ski manufacturing process. Based on the data of the skis in my quiver, I would say that a discrepancy of more than 25g would be a red flag for me.
 
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anders_nor

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I went back to the store with a pair of skis last year after I found them to be 150 grams different, and you could visibly measure a difference with caliper on thickness of ski, guessing one was missing a layer in the layup.
 

crgildart

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It seems the intent of this thread is to discuss “what has happened” with tunes recently. I am not a super skier, but I know when I am on a super crappy tune.
Super crappy tune? Ya, but I can touch it up with a stone and usually get through the day without horrible results. Could be better after a GOOD tune for sure.
The weirdest skiing factors I do notice is skis that are flat under foot but concave tips and/or tails. That makes a base bevel inconsistent It the concave is bad then grinding them flat takes away a lot of base and edge with it. This seems to be a Y2K and beyond problem, recent to me anyway.
 

cantunamunch

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I went back to the store with a pair of skis last year after I found them to be 150 grams different, and you could visibly measure a difference with caliper on thickness of ski, guessing one was missing a layer in the layup.

Or the surplus epoxy didn't entirely squeeze out of the other one. Resin weighs more than the layup fabrics themselves.
 

markojp

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What if the bases are totally off? I demoed a Rossignol Temptation 88 (?) years ago and couldn’t even turn coming off the lift; they felt railed. After I made it down, I handed them back to the rep and told him he had an issue. He insisted they had just been tuned. While that may be true, he still had an issue. He clearly assumed it was
Youve
Super crappy tune? Ya, but I can touch it up with a stone and usually get through the day without horrible results. Could be better after a GOOD tune for sure.
The weirdest skiing factors I do notice is skis that are flat under foot but concave tips and/or tails. That makes a base bevel inconsistent It the concave is bad then grinding them flat takes away a lot of base and edge with it. This seems to be a Y2K and beyond problem, recent to me anyway.
You've never skied a ski with a stupid aggressive base structure. They don't go sideways.
 

crgildart

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Youve

You've never skied a ski with a stupid aggressive base structure. They don't go sideways.
Is that ever a "factory tune"? Haven't seen anything like that from the factory. The Nordica Doberman GSRs Josh sold me awhile ago had some pretty wicked tip to tail straight vertical. structure A bit unwieldy, but I could still toss them side to side, shut down stop, etc..
 

KingGrump

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Is that ever a "factory tune"? Haven't seen anything like that from the factory. The Nordica Doberman GSRs Josh sold me awhile ago had some pretty wicked tip to tail straight vertical. structure A bit unwieldy, but I could still toss them side to side, shut down stop, etc..

Or structure on the base edge. Had that on a pair of "premium" ski earlier this season. Throw in a huge burr on the base edge and things couldn't be better. :nono:
 

markojp

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Is that ever a "factory tune"? Haven't seen anything like that from the factory. The Nordica Doberman GSRs Josh sold me awhile ago had some pretty wicked tip to tail straight vertical. structure A bit unwieldy, but I could still toss them side to side, shut down stop, etc..

Yes.
 

crgildart

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Or structure on the base edge. Had that on a pair of "premium" ski earlier this season. Throw in a huge burr on the base edge and things couldn't be better. :nono:
That will cut your glove or slice your hand open picking them up too.. Did you knock it down with a stone?
 

GregK

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I also had a pair of the base high Volkl Deacon 72 Masters that required a stone grind like @anders_nor. Mine required 6 passes on a semi automatic machine to get flat which is about average for a typical grind.

Of my last 36 pairs of skis in the last 10 years I think there has been maybe 5 that HAVEN’T needed a stone grind before I hand tune the edges myself. 3 pairs are the 21 Faction CT coming from the Fisher plant which were far better finished than my Fisher 102FR skis were.

The “needing a full tune on a new ski” issue reminds me of my own work of professional car detailing where it’s shocking the paint condition of brand new $150k plus cars that do. Many need 6 plus hours of work to correct the paint issues on them.
Most neighbours of my customers think “it’s crazy to have their new car detailed” till the see it after I’m done and then want my business card to have their car’s done.

New car alignments are also similar to ski tunes as they are never even within their own factory specs it seems let alone if you wanted specific alignment settings for your car. I do work for a few high end car shops with very elaborate alignment systems doing many performance and race cars but also regular newer cars measured daily on it.
When ever you put the car on it, you put in the car model and the machine will give the cars factory spec range and a light will light up green if that wheel is in spec or red if it’s not.
Of the approximately 1000 cars I’ve seen on them over the years, I’ve yet to see 4 green lights before adjustment yet!

Most people don’t have alignments or full details done on new cars unless they are experiencing severe issues or have the knowledge to know their new purchase will perform and look better getting them done. Once you know, you know!
 

KingGrump

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That will cut your glove or slice your hand open picking them up too.. Did you knock it down with a stone?

Came out of the plastic like that. Gave it a full tune.
Had 5 pair of new from wrapper from this manufacturer in the last 2 years with really messed up edges.
Other peoples may call it a premium brand. I am not buying into the hype.
 

crgildart

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Came out of the plastic like that. Gave it a full tune.
Had 5 pair of new from wrapper from this manufacturer in the last 2 years with really messed up edges.
Other peoples may call it a premium brand. I am not buying into the hype.
Bummer. I kinda agree that buying them from a shop in person gives you a chance to point that out and see if they'll step up and make it right. Buying online be prepared to spend more time pre tuning than you should have to paying that much..
 

Tony S

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I also had a pair of the base high Volkl Deacon 72 Masters that required a stone grind like @anders_nor. Mine required 6 passes on a semi automatic machine to get flat which is about average for a typical grind.

Of my last 36 pairs of skis in the last 10 years I think there has been maybe 5 that HAVEN’T needed a stone grind before I hand tune the edges myself. 3 pairs are the 21 Faction CT coming from the Fisher plant which were far better finished than my Fisher 102FR skis were.

The “needing a full tune on a new ski” issue reminds me of my own work of professional car detailing where it’s shocking the paint condition of brand new $150k plus cars that do. Many need 6 plus hours of work to correct the paint issues on them.
Most neighbours of my customers think “it’s crazy to have their new car detailed” till the see it after I’m done and then want my business card to have their car’s done.

New car alignments are also similar to ski tunes as they are never even within their own factory specs it seems let alone if you wanted specific alignment settings for your car. I do work for a few high end car shops with very elaborate alignment systems doing many performance and race cars but also regular newer cars measured daily on it.
When ever you put the car on it, you put in the car model and the machine will give the cars factory spec range and a light will light up green if that wheel is in spec or red if it’s not.
Of the approximately 1000 cars I’ve seen on them over the years, I’ve yet to see 4 green lights before adjustment yet!

Most people don’t have alignments or full details done on new cars unless they are experiencing severe issues or have the knowledge to know their new purchase will perform and look better getting them done. Once you know, you know!
That's really interesting.
 

markojp

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Bummer. I kinda agree that buying them from a shop in person gives you a chance to point that out and see if they'll step up and make it right. Buying online be prepared to spend more time pre tuning than you should have to paying that much..

For what it's worth, I've never sold a premium ski without prepping it as the customer prefers, and at no additional charge.
 

Philpug

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The “needing a full tune on a new ski” issue reminds me of my own work of professional car detailing where it’s shocking the paint condition of brand new $150k plus cars that do. Many need 6 plus hours of work to correct the paint issues on them.
Most neighbours of my customers think “it’s crazy to have their new car detailed” till the see it after I’m done and then want my business card to have their car’s done.

New car alignments are also similar to ski tunes as they are never even within their own factory specs it seems let alone if you wanted specific alignment settings for your car. I do work for a few high end car shops with very elaborate alignment systems doing many performance and race cars but also regular newer cars measured daily on it.
When ever you put the car on it, you put in the car model and the machine will give the cars factory spec range and a light will light up green if that wheel is in spec or red if it’s not.
Of the approximately 1000 cars I’ve seen on them over the years, I’ve yet to see 4 green lights before adjustment yet!

Most people don’t have alignments or full details done on new cars unless they are experiencing severe issues or have the knowledge to know their new purchase will perform and look better getting them done. Once you know, you know!
I was going to bring this up, thank you.
 

crgildart

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Honestly, when I get a "new to me" pair of skis, regardless of whether they came in plastic or already skied I truly enjoy laying them out flat and digging in to checking and prepping them to my preferences. If all they need is a quick pass of a stone to be sure no burrs before wax that's fine but I also enjoy the work if a little more is needed.
 
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