Northern Rockies/Alberta Banff in April

[Rod9301]

I believe it was Fauci who said that but I also heard it from several other sources as well as from some family members in the medical field - apologies I do not have a specific article to source.

Essentially my logic breaks down like this:

• Once a vaccine is formally approved there is a ramp up time to scale production - this is the reason that many competing drug companies are partnering on the production of covid drugs as it can save time and money to leverage someone else's existing manufacturing infrastructure. Establishing the ability to manufacture a drug at scale (100s of millions of doses vs thousands) takes time.
• Depending on the drug itself there is also the time taken to manufacture it, you also need the packaging and in some cases climate controlled storage and transportation which also takes time to put in place.
• You also have to train medical professionals how to administer the drug, have distribution and massive scale logistics in place for mass inoculation of 100's of millions of people. This all takes time to put in place before you can start administering vaccines.
• Once this is in place it will then easily take a year or two to inoculate the entire population but with anti vaxxer sentiment we have our final challenge, the field of dreams situation, if you build it will they come. Simply put it is going to take time to educate the population on this vaccine and convince them to take the vaccine.

So when taking all the above into consideration, even with an approved vaccine it will easily take a year or two to get the majority of the population vaccinated and there will be a vocal minority who absolutely refuse. I hope these assumptions and logic a proven wrong and we get the vaccine much faster.

Hundreds of millions? Maybe you meant billions?

 

[dovski]

Hundreds of millions? Maybe you meant billions?

I was just referring to the US, but you are right on a global scale we are talking billions and many countries simply do not have the resources or infrastructure to handle this in a timely fashion

 

[dovski]

Yeah, i saw the studies that showed airplanes were safe, but i wonder who sponsored these studies? Airlines maybe?

The real risk in my mind is the time before and after you get on the plane, where masks are not mandated and there lots of variables you cannot control.

 

[noncrazycanuck]

the bigger concern is what if you test positive ? you won't be able to fly back, while in limbo bills will get big.

we are currently helping out our sister in law's elderly parent.
A Canadian but a Washington State resident for last 20 years, he was advised by his doctor to get out of his extended care home while he could.
so he came up to visit his daughter this summer and was allowed in because he is Canadian
He did the mandatory 2 week isolation on arrival, then a medical issue required hospitalization,
Same hospital has been dealing with various covid out breaks since - each time he is about to be released there is another 2 week quarantine so he remains in isolation in the hospital.
So far his daughter has seen him twice since he arrived.

Hospital bills already processed are over 70,000 He does have US medical insurance but so far not a nickel has arrived.
Only light at the end of the tunnel is that by the end of this month he will have been a resident of Canada for over 3 months which is long enough to qualify for our medical plan.

 

[dovski]

the bigger concern is what if you test positive ? you won't be able to fly back, while in limbo bills will get big.

we are currently helping out our sister in law's elderly parent.
A Canadian but a Washington State resident for last 20 years, he was advised by his doctor to get out of his extended care home while he could.
so he came up to visit his daughter this summer and was allowed in because he is Canadian
He did the mandatory 2 week isolation on arrival, then a medical issue required hospitalization,
Same hospital has been dealing with various covid out breaks since - each time he is about to be released there is another 2 week quarantine so he remains in isolation in the hospital.
So far his daughter has seen him twice since he arrived.

Hospital bills already processed are over 70,000 He does have US medical insurance but so far not a nickel has arrived.
Only light at the end of the tunnel is that by the end of this month he will have been a resident of Canada for over 3 months which is long enough to qualify for our medical plan.

Agree that is a concern. We are lucky as our insurance will cover us in Canada and we have a place where we can stay and/or quarantine should one of us get sick while in Canada

 

[Jilly]

Government announced today that the border closing has been extended again. (And it will continue till Spring is what I'm hearing.)

Also:
“Non-essential” travel includes travel that is considered tourism or recreational in nature.

The United States and Canada recognize it is critical we preserve supply chains between both countries. These supply chains ensure that food, fuel, and life-saving medicines reach people on both sides of the border. Supply chains, including trucking, will not be impacted by this new measure. Americans and Canadians also cross the land border every day to do essential work or for other urgent or essential reasons, and that travel will not be impacted.

This decision will be implemented on March 21, 2020, at which time the U.S. and Canada will temporarily restrict all non-essential travel across the U.S.-Canada land border. The measure will be in place for 30 days, at which point it will be reviewed by both parties.

That is from the announcement back in March. I called the MP's office today about a friend that now lives in Florida, but his kids are all here. Since he's not returning to live, he is really not allowed to come up, quarantine and have Christmas with his kids. But I'm sure there are ways around that if wanted.

 

[dovski]

Government announced today that the border closing has been extended again. (And it will continue till Spring is what I'm hearing.)

Also:
“Non-essential” travel includes travel that is considered tourism or recreational in nature.

The United States and Canada recognize it is critical we preserve supply chains between both countries. These supply chains ensure that food, fuel, and life-saving medicines reach people on both sides of the border. Supply chains, including trucking, will not be impacted by this new measure. Americans and Canadians also cross the land border every day to do essential work or for other urgent or essential reasons, and that travel will not be impacted.

This decision will be implemented on March 21, 2020, at which time the U.S. and Canada will temporarily restrict all non-essential travel across the U.S.-Canada land border. The measure will be in place for 30 days, at which point it will be reviewed by both parties.

That is from the announcement back in March. I called the MP's office today about a friend that now lives in Florida, but his kids are all here. Since he's not returning to live, he is really not allowed to come up, quarantine and have Christmas with his kids. But I'm sure there are ways around that if wanted.

That is not entirely true. All Canadian citizens and their immediate families are allowed to travel to Canada, but will be subject to the safety a quarantine protocols currently in place which vary from province to province. As long as your friend in Florida still has Canadian citizenship or is married to a Canadian they have a legal right to enter Canada irrespective of travel ban. The "essential travel" requirements apply to non-Canadians. This is not a loop hole but the law. Now should they travel to Canada given the current situation with Covid is another story. With some of he new safety protocols being piloted in Alberta there is a light at the end of the tunnel.

 

[noncrazycanuck]

Citizens have the right to be allowed back into their country.
Family members who aren't citizens don't have that same right, no matter how immediate they are.

 

[babanff]

Citizens have the right to be allowed back into their country.
Family members who aren't citizens don't have that same right, no matter how immediate they are.

They may not have the "right", but currently there is an exemption to the travel restriction that allows certain immediate and extended family members, including siblings and parents, of citizens and permanent residents to travel to Canada as long as they heed quarantine restrictions upon arrival. This exemption was first introduced in June for children and parents, and then broadened in October to include other members of extended family including siblings, grandparents, and others. https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/border-restrictions-family-reunification-1.5746542 I definitely know some people who have had their family members from the US come and visit with no issues at the border. Exemption is for families of citizens & PR, but not temporary foreign workers.

 

[noncrazycanuck]

those exemptions for non citizen family members are dependent upon meeting additional criteria,
ensure they will qualify before showing up at the border and triple check being able to return to the US afterward if not American citizens.

 

[dovski]

those exemptions for non citizen family members are dependent upon meeting additional criteria,
ensure they will qualify before showing up at the border and triple check being able to return to the US afterward if not American citizens.

To be clear, if you are Canadian or a legal permanent resident, you and your immediate family (spouses, children and other direct dependents) have never been subject to the travel ban and can enter Canada. They did broaden this to include additional family members providing they meet specific criteria, but this does not apply to immediate family members as in theory immediate family members would have a right to apply for permanent residence status. Yes you have to meet some basic criteria and yes you have to conform to the covid restrictions in place in that province just like all Canadian residents.

Appreciate that some may not like this, but it is in fact Canadian law. For example my children born in the US are consider Canadian by birth. And my wife who is British and American can always enter Canada with me and can claim/apply for permanent resident/landed immigrant status if we decide to stay in Canada for an extended period of time because we are married.

 

[David Chaus]

To be clear, if you are Canadian or a legal permanent resident, you and your immediate family (spouses, children and other direct dependents) have never been subject to the travel ban and can enter Canada. They did broaden this to include additional family members providing they meet specific criteria, but this does not apply to immediate family members as in theory immediate family members would have a right to apply for permanent residence status. Yes you have to meet some basic criteria and yes you have to conform to the covid restrictions in place in that province just like all Canadian residents.

Appreciate that some may not like this, but it is in fact Canadian law. For example my children born in the US are consider Canadian by birth. And my wife who is British and American can always enter Canada with me and can claim/apply for permanent resident/landed immigrant status if we decide to stay in Canada for an extended period of time because we are married.

Are you adopting? asking for a friend.

 

[dovski]

Are you adopting? asking for a friend.

Sorry we already reached our quota of David's in my family, adding any more would just lead to chaos and confusion

 

[Jilly]

If you're still planning on coming in April, keep an eye on the news. JT wants to close the loophole created by air travel. So far the negative COVID test has changed a lot of plans. But the rumours are he's planning more. He announced last week that if you have travel plans for March break to cancel them. So something's in the wind.

 

[scott43]

I read he may invoke the emergency measures act to halt international travel. We'll see.

 

[Jilly]

I also got the feeling, probably reading more into than there is, that he wants to limit travel within the country. Land or air.

 

[DanoT]

The B.C. government has backed down from their plan to close the B.C.-Alberta border rather quickly, so maybe there is federal plan soon to be coming out of Ottawa....strictly speculation on my part.

 

[noncrazycanuck]

There was also a lot of push back from the BC communities close to the Alberta border.
Coupled with the fact that there isn't much difference in percentage of covid infection between BC and Alberta. BC just tests a lot less than Alberta so our number don't seem as bad.
We have one of the lowest test rates in Canada.

That being said I also expect a lot more travel and activity restrictions coming up.

 

[surfacehoar]

It's simple science. Containment strategies don't work when there is fire on both sides of the fence. Further restriction to travel will be additional damage to the economy to protect JT's image.

Don't get me wrong. I'm all for fighting COVID and saving as many lives as possible. Just wish the science was guiding the policy.

 

[dovski]

Again while these measures if implemented would impact non-Canadians travelling to Canada, it would not prevent me and my family from traveling back to Canada because I am Canadian. The thing that would impact us would be any changes they make to the pilot program they are running in Alberta that allows us to test at the airport upon arrival instead of quarantining for 2 weeks.

Just because we can travel to Canada and ski in April does not mean we will. I can cancel my flights and hotel with 3 days notice, so we are going to wait and see how things develop before making a final decision on what to do. There is also the possibility that we will be vaccinated by April which will also factor into our final decision. We are all concerned about Covid, but there is so much speculation about what might happen and when that I am not willing to make any premature decisions. All I can tell you is that when we do make our final decision it will be thoughtful with health and safety in mind.