Base prep new skis with wax and just use liquid for rest of season?

[jt10000]

I just noticed he has his iron running at 150C while the wax has a suggested temp of 140:

I think the recommendations are a good starting point, but probably conservative. And also it's hard to know how accurate iron temperatures are. So to me, the wax should flow easy but not smoke. Then you're in the ballpark.

Things get trickier with non-waxes (like powders, liquids etc) where you have less feedback as you iron, so the temperature recommendations are more important (as is keeping notes on how results/iron settings etc).

 

[Rich_Ease_3051]

I think the recommendations are a good starting point, but probably conservative. And also it's hard to know how accurate iron temperatures are. So to me, the wax should flow easy but not smoke. Then you're in the ballpark.

Things get trickier with non-waxes (like powders, liquids etc) where you have less feedback as you iron, so the temperature recommendations are more important (as is keeping notes on how well the produce when on with your iron).

Yeah I think 130C should get the iron gliding. I'll keep you posted if it doesn't.

 

[jt10000]

Sometimes not even that *cough*water ice*cough*

Off-topic for this thread, but I must say I just love hearing/reading the term "water ice" - it's a sign of someone communicating with precision. I associate particularly with Mars exploration, but it's cool in general.

 

[KingGrump]

Can you explain what this means? I'm just learning waxing alpline skis, and while I had confidence I was doing it right with regards to the wax and the p-tex, the metal edges were kind of freaking me out. The iron base rubbing on the edges was not a pleasant thing.

This is what a metal edge looks like prior to being embedded under the ptex. The keys provide a mechanical bond.

 

[KingGrump]

I just noticed he has his iron running at 150C while the wax has a suggested temp of 140 lol:

View attachment 136868

Like JT10000 said up thread. The recommended temp on the box is usually conservative. When I have lots of skis to do, I will often crank it up to the smoke point and back it down a bit. Things go much faster.
I am here to ski. Not to wax. The waxing just make the skiing more enjoyable.

 

[dan ross]

Aside from overheating the wax, or damaging the extruded base, heat is detrimental to the longevity of epoxy. In fact the traditional method of breaking epoxy bonds is to heat them.
Heat accelerates the cure during layup but it also breaks the molecular bond once cured. I’ve broken thin epoxy bonds with a lighter. I can’t remember if the effects of overheating are cumulative but as someone mentioned earlier if the topsheet feels “warm “ stop . Concentrated high heat is not a good thing for the skis structural integrity.

 

[Rich_Ease_3051]

Aside from overheating the wax, or damaging the extruded base, heat is detrimental to the longevity of epoxy. In fact the traditional method of breaking epoxy bonds is to heat them.
Heat accelerates the cure during layup but it also breaks the molecular bond once cured. I’ve broken thin epoxy bonds with a lighter. I can’t remember if the effects of overheating are cumulative but as someone mentioned earlier if the topsheet feels “warm “ stop . Concentrated high heat is not a good thing for the skis structural integrity.

Yep the seminar presenter always stresses not overheating the ski. 35:00 is similar to what you explained

 

[Eric@ict]

Yep the seminar presenter always stresses not overheating the ski. 35:00 is similar to what you explained

I started waxing last year and like you, I spent a lot of time researching asking questions, losing sleep over ruining my skis….I was over thinking it and for no good reason. Wax temps, what I do, is set the iron to what is recommended plus 5. Take a few drinks of beer, check my music selection, test the wax melt on the iron. If it runs nice and doesn’t smoke, I’m good. I scribble some wax on my ski then do a melt drop. I always apply too much so I’ve gotten really good at scraping and sharpening plastic. As I run my iron, I do wiggle it on my wider skis as needed to cover the whole base. I use my hand to often check the top sheet for temp. If I feel a change, I stop and let it cool and scrape.

As others have said, keep it hot enough to have a molten trail behind your iron. Then scrape, brush, brush, drink a beer, brush and brush. Don’t over think it. Brush some more.
There is someone on here who has made a number of videos about waxing that I found to be most helpful and keeps it simple. Which is what I need. Have fun and enjoy your new hobby.

 

[dan ross]

Yes, don’t overthink it too much but be aware that it is the primary reason to avoid high heat- I imagine this is more critical in skis with a metal layer as metal absorbs /transfers heat more than less dense materials like wood.

On a historical note, when I was a kid, Dynamic VR17’s
were not supposed to waxed with an iron .
I don’t remember why this was anymore -if it was a special base treatment or something else. Epoxies have come a long way in the last 45 years though.

 

[Primoz]

I just noticed he has his iron running at 150C while the wax has a suggested temp of 140 lol:

Suggested iron temperature on wax is just that... suggested iron temperature. It's nothing more then this. In reality, but that's a bit above "let's start waxing for first time", iron temperatures changes depending on snow structure, temperature of snow and air and humidity. So sometimes you are waxing 10 degrees below suggested temperature, sometime you are waxing 30 degrees above. So having iron at 150c while wax suggested temperature is 140c is nothing weird or bad.

 

[Eric@ict]

Yep the seminar presenter always stresses not overheating the ski. 35:00 is similar to what you explained

Here is the thread I started to ask about waxing and tunes.

You pro tuners make it look easy! | SkiTalk | Ski reviews, Ski Selector

@Jacques videos were a big help in answering so many questions and concerns that I had. I'm still very new to this and love these type of inquiring posts. There are gems of knowledge each time.

Post #4 has the links to his videos.

 

[Rich_Ease_3051]

Here is the thread I started to ask about waxing and tunes.

You pro tuners make it look easy! | SkiTalk | Ski reviews, Ski Selector

@Jacques videos were a big help in answering so many questions and concerns that I had. I'm still very new to this and love these type of inquiring posts. There are gems of knowledge each time.

Post #4 has the links to his videos.

Thanks I've checked out the #4 video and there was a lot, I mean a lot, of ironing the skis back and forth, which is advised against by the Swix USA seminar. I'm inclined to believe the latter as it's quick and won't transfer heat through the ski sandwich and on to top sheet. The guide is 2 x 10 second passes (with a 30 second cool down in between) and leaving a wet trail of no more than 6 inches.

 

[Sibhusky]

You are seriously over-analyzing. This bit about length of wax trails is especially ridiculous as it will be impacted by room temperature, ski temperature, type of wax, how fast you move the iron, how many passes you've made, how much the drips of wax have re-hardened since your last pass, etc. There is no goal here of the "correct" wax trail length. The goal is to spread wax down the ski and warm the p-tex enough to open up to accept it. Once you actually start doing this regularly, you will realize that many "rules" are just other people's habits.

 

[Marker]

You purchased fiberlene so I assume you are aware of placing it between the ski base and the iron to absorb the molten wax. I do this for hot waxing when saturating the base with prep wax and to clean it, and never use cold scraping. I actually use lint-free shop towels that work as well as fiberlene. You can easily see the dirt and black impurities from the base in the towels. Once the ski cools, you still need to brush. 3-4 cycles of prep wax at the end or start of the season to get it back to neutral and ready for the daily harder waxes. Sometimes I'll repeat the base prep cycles mid-season if I have the time. Definitely do this after a base grind. For a recreational skier not worried about race times, this is good enough for me.

I lean towards Jacques lower and slower wax method to penetrate the prep wax into the base, so multiple passes at the lower temperatures for those waxes. I'll drag the center of the iron over the edge which adsorbs the heat faster to equalize the base temperature. Absorb the excess wax, cool, brush out, and repeat. A lot less messy than scraping and a big time saver.

I tune the skis, usually just diamond stones unless more is needed, before waxing, which deburrs the edges and prevents scratching the iron. I leave base grinds and serious edge work to a trusted shop, but those can be hard to find.

 

[NE1]

Is there a reason one must use the iron aligned vertically with the running surface of the ski?

For skis wider than the iron base, instead of "turning-and-circling" the iron or making extra side-by-side passes, why not use the iron turned 90 degrees to the base and adjust your temperature/pass time appropriately?

 

[Primoz]

@NE1 depending on iron, but not all (at least it goes for Swix I'm using) are flat. Swix is flat for about half or 2/3 of lenght and then it slowly starts to rise. That means turning it 90 degrees you won't have flat surface across the ski.
So my solution, as coming from xc skiing, you get "slightly" anal regarding ski preparation, which also means you never ever do anything on ski against skiing direction, which includes also ironing (as well as scaping, brushing...), and then this eliminates "circles", I just run iron twice. Once on left side of the ski, once on right side, and whole base is done. Ok in reality it's more then 2 runs, but that depends on wax, snow, temperature etc.

 

[Eric@ict]

All this talk of wax and the passing of the summer solstice has me itching to get the party started. LET THE SNOW FLY, ULLR I CALL ON YOU TO MAKE IT HAPPEN NOW!

 

[Jacques]

Thanks I've checked out the #4 video and there was a lot, I mean a lot, of ironing the skis back and forth, which is advised against by the Swix USA seminar. I'm inclined to believe the latter as it's quick and won't transfer heat through the ski sandwich and on to top sheet. The guide is 2 x 10 second passes (with a 30 second cool down in between) and leaving a wet trail of no more than 6 inches.

Yea, to each his own. Low heat, longer time. High heat, much much less time.
I have never noticed any ill effects using low heat and longer times.
I never made a video of applying a hard wax. For that, I do indeed use much more heat, and much much less time.
One thing about Swix waxes is the super high temps. they recommend on their chart. Yes, you better not stay too long!

 

[Rich_Ease_3051]

You are seriously over-analyzing. This bit about length of wax trails is especially ridiculous as it will be impacted by room temperature, ski temperature, type of wax, how fast you move the iron, how many passes you've made, how much the drips of wax have re-hardened since your last pass, etc. There is no goal here of the "correct" wax trail length.

I take them as guide, not hard and fast rules, as I mentioned in #52

 

[Rich_Ease_3051]

You purchased fiberlene so I assume you are aware of placing it between the ski base and the iron to absorb the molten wax. I do this for hot waxing when saturating the base with prep wax and to clean it, and never use cold scraping.

Yes I have heard of this in the Q&A portion of the seminar on 1:13:00 mark. I won't be doing it nor will I be hot waxing scraping. I puchased the fiberlene just for general wiping in between scrapes and brushes.