Battle of ruggedized AWD wagons

[Muleski]

On the RS6 Avant. My brother, a serious long term Audi guy and an equally serious skier, has one. It’s perfectly set up. He has 3 sets of wheels and tires, etc. It lives in a climate controlled garage. And…while he’ll ski 100+ days this season, it will NOT be making those drives. It will get driven locally, probably on dry winter days.

My sister in law has an Audi SQ5, with studded Hakka’s. They also have a GMC Yukon Denali….with winter tires. Those are the ski vehicles.

The RS6 is an amazing car. He actually has figured out that prefers to drive his two older Avants, though. Might be that both have three pedals? Where we live in New England, there are some great driving roads, but they all seem to be more beat up by the month. Potholes and half-assed road repairs {versus resurfacing} everywhere. The RS6 can be pretty darn harsh on those roads. It’s, in his opinion, really built for the highway systems in Europe. I am not sure how long he’ll own it. For a while anyway. He’s owned his 1995.5 S6 avant since new.

In his, and my experience {100 plus years of ski driving…every weekend…between us}, it's NOT really a “ski car.” For many reasons. Like it's too nice to toss your boots in the back! But it's hyped that way by some, for sure. AWD, a massive powerplant and beautiful fit and finish. It turns a lot of heads. It sounds "impressive."

It also takes some…maybe it’s confidence…to have $150K in one and be able to admit that it might not be, for him, really perfect.

It’s not going anywhere right now. He is addicted to Audi avants, has the space, knowledge and means.

Interestingly, his daughter {our niece} and our daughter both have had VW Alltracks. Both 6 speeds, both set up for winter, both with a few “tweaks.” They loved them, and both dads did, too. Really great snow cars, as @Philpug has mentioned. Like him, we have had A LOT, and that platform is a great one. Lot of car for the money. Our daughter was offered a fortune for hers, then at the same time had an opportunity on a family friend's Allroad {they were moving abroad.} Basically an even swap. I know she misses the Alltrack.

 

[Tom K.]

The RS6 is an amazing car. He actually has figured out that prefers to drive his two older Avants, though.

I get this. For me, though I obviously haven't driven one, the RS6 is just too much to enjoy properly on public roads.

The older S6 Avant, which I have driven, nearly made me weep with joy.

Sadly, at a time in life when a car like that did not make it to the top priority position on the Toy List.

 

[Philpug]

It’s, in his opinion, really built for the highway systems in Europe. I am not sure how long he’ll own it.

This makes total sense. The RS6 is almost too perfect.

Interestingly, his daughter {our niece} and our daughter both have had VW Alltracks. Both 6 speeds, both set up for winter, both with a few “tweaks.” They loved them, and both dads did, too. Really great snow cars, as @Philpug has mentioned.

The Alltrack is 7/8ths the A4 Allroads for 5/8th the money.

While the Subie might be better on paper, more room, more power, more a lot of things where it lacks in is driving dynamics, while that might not matter to most (just look at sales numbers), it matters to some, but obviously not enough because it is no longer in VW's product line.

 

[firebanex]

You have a Baja? Share a pic!

Since you asked.. and I don't actually have pictures of my car, I had to go and take one this morning while I was out and about. As mentioned earlier, 1" lift, slightly bigger tires than normal, some extra lights on the front, and a bunch of bike and ski racks on it 90% of the time.

 

[wooglin]

I wish, instead of comparing different cars, they’d just drive the same car and compare the different electronic traction control settings on the same terrain. But that might reveal the man behind the curtain.

 

[Ken_R]

Warning: if you're a Subaru fanboi, you will be triggered.


And they duplicated what TFLcar found on CVT's, When the terrain is too challenging for Subaru's Legendary Symmetrical AWD's CVT, the CVT shuts down power transmission to the wheels

Many of these cars had summer tires also.

AWD and open differentials are perfect for on road but for extreme off road (wheels in the air stuff like what TFL loves) you need locking differentials specially if you are going stop/slow/crawling over that stuff like TFL does.

The CVT is another issue vs a standard auto transm. and a 4x4 transfer case.

The Subaru system excels at being highly efficient and also feeling great even under heavy steering. It is very smooth. Needs momentum to go over stuff though.

 

[François Pugh]

LOL, a one-wheel drive will make it over or through plenty of stuff with sufficient momentum. You might need to replace a few parts from hitting bumps a bit hard - headlights, radiators, wheels......(don't ask me how I know).

 

[Tom K.]

Since you asked.. and I don't actually have pictures of my car, I had to go and take one this morning while I was out and about. As mentioned earlier, 1" lift, slightly bigger tires than normal, some extra lights on the front, and a bunch of bike and ski racks on it 90% of the time.

I love the pretty clear "piss off, this is what works for me" approach.

That's why we've been rocking an extended minivan since Dodge first introduced the Grand Caravan in 85 or 86 -- before there was any minivan stigma!

 

[Ken_R]

Also, beware of the dual clutch trasm. in the VW family fo products (Audi etc), it is not good either when you try to go over obstacles going slow as TFL also found out.

 

[scott43]

I love the pretty clear "piss off, this is what works for me" approach.

That's why we've been rocking an extended minivan since Dodge first introduced the Grand Caravan in 85 or 86 -- before there was any minivan stigma!

My aunt and uncle destroyed countless Dodge Caravans over the years driving 3 kids to rep and junior hockey all over Ontario. It's funny..people like that here never talk about awd and lifts and tires. They just got on with it for 20 years. Countless hours driving in whiteout conditions to get to games in Owen Sound, North Bay, Sudbury, Sault Ste Marie, Orillia, Bracebridge, Parry Sound...

 

[crgildart]

Oh there's definitely a "run what you brung" component of living life. I didn't own a 4WD/AWD vehicle until I was almost 40 years old. I had chains though... Money for playing>money for a better suited vehicle when I can make the other vehicle work most of the time. Wasn't til I hit a sweetspot of better earnings and less obligations that I could upgrade my vehicle options.

 

[slowrider]

LOL, a one-wheel drive will make it over or through plenty of stuff with sufficient momentum. You might need to replace a few parts from hitting bumps a bit hard - headlights, radiators, wheels......(don't ask me how I know).

You'd be a good log truck driver. Rambo up that goat trail.

 

[cantunamunch]

You'd be a good log truck driver. Rambo up that goat trail.

Send him to Oz?

I'd totally watch that Outback Truckers episode.

 

[Tom K.]

Oh there's definitely a "run what you brung" component of living life. I didn't own a 4WD/AWD vehicle until I was almost 40 years old. I had chains though... Money for playing>money for a better suited vehicle when I can make the other vehicle work most of the time. Wasn't til I hit a sweetspot of better earnings and less obligations that I could upgrade my vehicle options.

Same! Minivans and FWD Saabs. Then, on a Christmas trip to MT, after the third time laying in the snow to chain up, I told my wife that the minute an AWD minivan came out, we were buying one.

Since then, I've never again chained up (always winter tires in addition to AWD though).

 

[Ken_R]

Oh there's definitely a "run what you brung" component of living life. I didn't own a 4WD/AWD vehicle until I was almost 40 years old. I had chains though... Money for playing>money for a better suited vehicle when I can make the other vehicle work most of the time. Wasn't til I hit a sweetspot of better earnings and less obligations that I could upgrade my vehicle options.

On the road/highway with snow you dont really need 4WD or AWD but you really do need good winter tires. As the snow gets deeper and the road steeper then AWD/4WD (plus winter tires) increases your capability significantly. A shitbox with good winter tires will almost always do better in shallow snow / ice on the road than the latest and greatest AWD/4WD SUV with stock no season tires.

 

[cantunamunch]

^ especially when you turn the various stability assists off.

 

[Nobody]

A matter of days, I hope, and I will be taking possession of a Toyota RAV Hybrid 4WD (or whatever the model is called). After exactly 20 years I get back to a resemblance of 4WD (previous 4WD was a 1987 Jeep Cherockee ...loved it, had to give it away when yearly insurance and road taxes started to be more than the car worth, not to mention the maintenance)

 

[crgildart]

On the road/highway with snow you dont really need 4WD or AWD but you really do need good winter tires. As the snow gets deeper and the road steeper then AWD/4WD (plus winter tires) increases your capability significantly. A shitbox with good winter tires will almost always do better in shallow snow / ice on the road than the latest and greatest AWD/4WD SUV with stock no season tires.

I've had all of the above. An AWD with GOOD no seasons crushes my 2wd and rwd 2 wheelers with good snows. Add chains to the 2 wd and it's a tie. AWD with mediocre no seasons and it's a tie. Your AWD must really suck...

 

[Ken_R]

I've had all of the above. An AWD with GOOD no seasons crushes my 2wd and rwd 2 wheelers with good snows. Add chains to the 2 wd and it's a tie. AWD with mediocre no seasons and it's a tie. Your AWD must really suck...

Mine rules. But I have had 2WD's with good tires and they are awesome as well. Most no season tires are terrible in snow to the point of being hazardous, that has changed a lot nowadays with better rubber compounds and designs. AWD/4WD doesnt do jack when braking, the tires do.

 

[SkiSVLikeAgassi]

Here is my winter beater AWD ski wagon on all-season (on the sporty side) tires. And I mean the " beater" part. Certainly not "ruggedized," but performs admirably in the snow, even with the sports package.

Would not swap it for any of the cars in the article...