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ski otter 2

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Yeah, the 68 mm wide ski is an extreme example that illustrates the point. If the snow's 6" deep, there's no reason not to be on at least an 80 mm ski, and the only reason not to be on a lot of 100+ mm skis is that you might also on that same run end up on a firmer groomed run where a lot of the 100+ mm skis have other built in features that enhance their deep-snow performance (like softer flex and rocker) at the expense of their groomer-zoomer performance.

Thanks. That's why I said a "right" wider ski. Some carve almost as well, or as well, as a race ski. Some charge on groomers in some ways better.
So when that problem disappears on the "right" powder/chop ski, then what's left is optimizing the fun or not, maybe.

Also, due to lack of float and the right stiffness, etc. (and thus loss of some more fun options), I'm not aware of a ski below, say, 115, that has enough float, etc. to optimize shallower (and denser, and deeper) fresh snow, and crud. Even some of the best ones. And it's why to me, the best skis for over 6" even, any density, any degree of chop/crud, up to unlimited, are at least 110, and my tops are more, 117 to 120 wide. (But there are lots of others, I'd guess.)
 
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ski otter 2

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I think you raise a good point, but there is also another factor we need to consider and that is knee deep what? Champagne pow, Cascade concrete ... etc. Yes agree 4 plus inches is super fun on wider skis as you have enough POW to essentially surf the snow, but what if it is 4 inches of wet Pow at that point you may not want to go as wide. Lets also not forget the flex pattern and shape of the ski as those are also factors in how well a ski performs in POW. To that end my Laser AX is super fun in 4-6 inches of POW, but my SR95 can easily handle a 1-2 feet. At the same time when we get over a foot of fresh pow my Enforcer 110 comes into play and is super fun. I think we can slice and dice this conversation and come up with super complicated algorithms but the main point is as the snow gets deeper fatter skis perform better. How deep will depend on the type of snow and the skier. Let's also not forget that 20+ years back there were no fat skis and folks had a lot of fun skiing deep POW on skinny skis :)

Yeah, agreed, and I was on those skinny skis in powder for over, what, almost 60 years.

And agreed also, good to have a quiver plan for different depths and conditions. As you detailed, lots of good, creative options for improvements on 80 - 100 skis in powder - depending on the skier. (First draft I wanted to go into that kind of detail too but cut it.) That's why I said "skipping many of the details."

Also, the Enforcer 110 may be super fun, but at least for me, based on only one day demoed in ~6" powder, it can't do what a number of other (mostly wider) skis can: for one, float as much; for two, handle all densities and degrees of powder/chop/crud/roughness as no problem, no interference to the performance.
 

David Chaus

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Yeah, agreed, and I was on those skinny skis in powder for over, what, almost 60 years.

And agreed also, good to have a quiver plan for different depths and conditions. As you detailed, lots of good, creative options for improvements on 80 - 100 skis in powder - depending on the skier. (First draft I wanted to go into that kind of detail too but cut it.) That's why I said "skipping many of the details."

Also, the Enforcer 110 may be super fun, but at least for me, based on only one day demoed in ~6" powder, it can't do what a number of other (mostly wider) skis can: for one, float as much; for two, handle all densities and degrees of powder/chop/crud/roughness as no problem, no interference to the performance.
Agreed, anything over 4” snow and my Billy Goats (116) are so much fun, maybe more so than my Woodsman 102’s, which makes me wonder if I don’t really need anything in a 98-108 width. I have a Renoun Z 90, which is versatile though designed more as a frontside ski, and I could see replacing the Woodsman 102 with a mid-90’s ski (Stance, Pagoda Piste, Ranger FR, etc).
 

dovski

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Yeah, agreed, and I was on those skinny skis in powder for over, what, almost 60 years.

And agreed also, good to have a quiver plan for different depths and conditions. As you detailed, lots of good, creative options for improvements on 80 - 100 skis in powder - depending on the skier. (First draft I wanted to go into that kind of detail too but cut it.) That's why I said "skipping many of the details."

Also, the Enforcer 110 may be super fun, but at least for me, based on only one day demoed in ~6" powder, it can't do what a number of other (mostly wider) skis can: for one, float as much; for two, handle all densities and degrees of powder/chop/crud/roughness as no problem, no interference to the performance.
I like the enforcer because unlike many fat skis it can really hold an edge when needed. So when I am on those steeps and we hit a crusty windblown patch it performs great. It also has two layers of metal with a great flex profile that I find make it a super versatile ski in variable snow conditions (i.e. crud, avalanche debris ... etc.). Surprised you had issues in 6" of pow as I typically do not ski mine until there is at least a foot of POW, but do agree there are wider skis the will give you much more float. I also really like the faction CT 3.0, it is not a burly as the enforcer but performs great in POW.
 

Paul Lutes

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...... Let's also not forget that 20+ years back there were no fat skis and folks had a lot of fun skiing deep POW on skinny skis :)

True, but .....you never know what you're missing until it becomes available! (corollary to you never know hat you've got until it's gone)
 

dovski

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True, but .....you never know what you're missing until it becomes available! (corollary to you never know hat you've got until it's gone)
All I can say is that back in the 80's I had a narrow pair of fluorescent green Fischers, fluorescent green gloves and a deep purple skiing trench coat. When I skied powder the tail of my coat used to float on the snow behind me like a bridal train, while my feet and skis where below the snow, l always thought that looked super cool. Mind you this was up in the Canadian Rockies with true pixie dust champagne powder and with snow that light it does not matter what you are skiing as it is always super fun :)
 

ski otter 2

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I like the enforcer because unlike many fat skis it can really hold an edge when needed. So when I am on those steeps and we hit a crusty windblown patch it performs great. It also has two layers of metal with a great flex profile that I find make it a super versatile ski in variable snow conditions (i.e. crud, avalanche debris ... etc.). Surprised you had issues in 6" of pow as I typically do not ski mine until there is at least a foot of POW, but do agree there are wider skis the will give you much more float. I also really like the faction CT 3.0, it is not a burly as the enforcer but performs great in POW.

The related ski I think I'd like more is the Enforcer 115 Free. The only reason I have not bought that is that it lacks float, and thus playfulness as an option, though it is great in crud, and carving, I hear.

Yeah, there was a distinctive feel to the 110s I didn't get along with. But I'll keep an open mind about them now. That was some years ago, so I don't remember all of it in detail enough to describe it, unless I have the chance to ski it again. And I actually got on them twice, both times same reaction. A no, rather than an issue in 6". There were skis I just liked better.

With almost all real powder skis I've liked, they have been optimal as soon as it's 4" or more, as is the case for @David Chaus and his Billy Goats also. (A ski I really love, and at the top of my list of favorite skis I didn't quite buy - as yet.

Agreed, anything over 4” snow and my Billy Goats (116) are so much fun, maybe more so than my Woodsman 102’s, which makes me wonder if I don’t really need anything in a 98-108 width. I have a Renoun Z 90, which is versatile though designed more as a frontside ski, and I could see replacing the Woodsman 102 with a mid-90’s ski (Stance, Pagoda Piste, Ranger FR, etc).
 

David Chaus

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All I can say is that back in the 80's I had a narrow pair of fluorescent green Fischers, fluorescent green gloves and a deep purple skiing trench coat. When I skied powder the tail of my coat used to float on the snow behind me like a bridal train, while my feet and skis where below the snow, l always thought that looked super cool. Mind you this was up in the Canadian Rockies with true pixie dust champagne powder and with snow that light it does not matter what you are skiing as it is always super fun :)
And what drugs were you on??
 

dovski

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And what drugs were you on??
I was on Pixie dust powder that you find at altitude in the Canadian Rockies, not the Cascade Concrete we tend to ski in the PNW ... with apologies to @CascadeConcrete ;)

Joking aside when I first moved to the Seattle area a friend took me skiing on a POW day. When we got to the hill my initial reaction was what the f$%##$# is this s$%&%, because whatever it is this is not POW. Needless to say I have adapted to my new environment and traded -40 temps with insulated coats and skinny skis for warm wet skiing in Gortex shells with fat skis.

As for the coat it was similar to this but all purple and maybe a smidge longer. And back then white gloves with fluorescent green pads were super cool ... I know this because my mom told me so ... I also think the gloves were on clearance sale when she got them for me.
1620572606793.png
 
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