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Best racing club in New England

SkiCanMom

In the parking lot (formerly "At the base lodge")
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Hi,
I'm new here. We will be relocating from Canada to the Boston area and I'm looking for a good alpine ski racing club in a resort with decent vertical drop. I have 3 kids in U10, U12 and U14. I found Wachussets which seems to be the only one within 1 hour from Boston but I am willing to travel up to 2h1/2. What are the best racing clubs in NH or VT? What's the reputation of Wachussets racing club? Where can I find rankings of all the clubs in New England?

Thank you!
 

KevinF

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What do you mean by "racing club"? Are you looking for night league racing or ski race academies for your children?
 
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SkiCanMom

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We don't have that denomination here I guess. Just regular u10-12-14 programs. Here in Canada my kids in U12-U14, trains on Wednesdays, Saturdays and Sundays with 8 races per season.
 

Jilly

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Your kids would have been NCD? Racing at Fortune, Edelweiss, Calabogie, MSM?

Our racing program starts locally with divisions within the province. Clubs race against other clubs, maybe 3 total at a time. Then move on to a provincial race for finals. Lots of travel in your in SOD - Southern Ontario.
 

Dave Marshak

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Bousquet in Pittsfield had by far the best racing program in the East for kids who weren't at academies. They had four athletes on the national team at one time. I'm not sure how the new owners are supporting that now.
It's just about at your distance limit, but it's an easy drive on the Mass pike.

Does 2-1/2 hiurs get you to Cochran's to train with real Olympians?

dm
 

Dave Marshak

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Killington might be within range as well.

dm
 

Muleski

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There is a LOT to consider here. I hesitate to get into a discussion as to "best", as we'll get everybody and his/her brother/sister simply advocating for their kids' program, often to try to confirm that it is a good one.

First, it sounds like you are planning to day trip/drive both weekend days so that your kids can do this. Is the right? Second, the choices and "plan" could vary quite a bit based on where you plan to live in the Boston Area. South Shore, Metro West, North Shore......the drive times and the best "direction" to head to vary quite a bit.

Most of the bigger programs in New England, if we consider ME, NH, and VT to start, are very weekend, every vacation day programs, starting as early as they have reasonable snow, and running through in most cases the end of March or first weekend in April. And, the majority of the kids are living either full time those mountain town areas, or more likely are in a vacation/ski home. I'm saying that because a those ages, kids can be cruel without intending to do so. "Who are those kids who drive up here every weekend? What don't theie parents have a ski house here? etc."

Then you have the question of your U14. In the "best" programs, the best U14's are already going to be in full time residential ski academy programs, or living at home, in the ski home with a parent. In the more Northern and bigger programs, the numbers of weekend racers evaporate as you become a U16. Some work hard to support a program, but it's hard to not make them second class citizens to the academy kids.

My wife and I have been at this since we were young kids. 60 years ago. And we raised a couple of ski racers, who raced through college and now in there in their mid 30's coach full time in VERY big intense programs.....in the Rockies.

I would consider programs that have enough scale so that they have plenty of kids, and which also can and do attract good coaches. Now.....this is a very personal bias borne out of observation of so many programs, coaches, and kids. Kids who I have seen grow in many directions in the sport. I would want a program where at there ages the focus is on developing their ski skills.....not having somebody just drill holes and put plastic in the hill to "run gates." My son will out three or four skiers in the USST this season, and even at their ages, the amount of directed free skiing that that do is considerable. I do NOT se that in most weekend programs in N.E., unless at the biggest "hills."

So drive wise, you're NOT going to be headed to Sugarloaf, or Sunday River, or probably Franconia Ski Club. Waterville Valley would be a push {every day}. I think that heading to the Mount Washington Valley {North Conway area} could be really a slug with traffic. In Vermont, a lot of my suggestions, like MMSC or GMVS....Okemo and Killington seem exhausting for day driving.

There are some very good smaller programs that take the academy stuff off the table. You likely will have parents who do not think they have the next Mikaela sleeping in the bedroom next to theirs. I'd probably Google maps them from where you think you may be.

In Maine, Shawnee Peak is a option. I think it would be at the far end of your drive range. But it's got a good program, all weekend kids. In New Hampshire, Pats Peak is a good possibility. Clearly look at Waterville Valley. Many weekend kids. Vermont is tough, and it depends on your drive time. Stratton and SMS is always an option, but maybe for this non weekend resident drive program I might not head there.

In Massachusetts you have, actually some VERY good options. Depending on how small a mountain you ended top with, I'd been in a weekend a month of road tripping to a big mountain for a ripping weekend of free skiing. You mentioned Wachusett. I have a good friend who's kids learned to ski and race there, and stayed their through high school. Both were NCAA college captains. You can get a TON of ski training volume at Wachusett and you can probably ski with them a night a week, maybe two if so moved.

In the Berkshires, I'd check into Berkshire East and Catamount as strong possibilities, along with Jiminy Peak. With COVID a lot of these smaller areas have had a bunch of challenges recently, but I think that they will be ready for great seasons coming up.

I know that we have people in this community who ski all of them on a regular basis, and who may have some insight. The GM at Catamount, I believe, is Mark Smith who took the job to help develop the type of racing that I think you may be looking for. Mark is one of the best and most experienced coaches in the country. Former Head Coach at Middlebury, he moved back East having been the Head women's coach at Ski Club Vail. He knows how to build, staff, and run a program for ages 6-18.

My hands-on experience is with Burke, CVA @Sugarloaf, Gould/GSR at Sunday River, Holderness School {prep school}, and SMS. A bit with Waterville. But none of those program fit, IMO.

Of course if you were to plan or consider a season rental of a condo, many more options.

So.......let's narrow it down and get more to weigh in. Driving by the day? 2.5 hours one way with the kids sounds like a LONG day to me. Two days in a row over a weekend? Wow. My kids were exhausted at the end of the day at those ages, and our commute to our ski house was by skis. We had to pry them out of the car on Sunday nights. And we had a series of Suburbans so each kid had their own seat, space and dog.

You're taking up to 2.5 hours each way, up and back, two days a weekend, right? Or am I mis reading that!

Best.
 

Jilly

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Why did I think you were in Ottawa? You're SOD. These "Academies" that they are talking about would be similar to the program at Blue where the kids go to school in Collingwood and ski every day. You're just looking for a weekend/ski camp program like @Muleski states above?
 

S.H.

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"Best" is pretty subjective. Almost every mountain in MA/NH/VT have some sort of race program that is good ... for some people. Almost every program has different vibes, strengths, community, etc. So, a lot of it depends on what you're looking for. In terms of "developing great ski racers", the results point to the big academies - GMVS/BMS/SMS. And, as @Muleski said, for U14s, the "best" are on snow 5-6 days/wk. So, I'm guessing that's not really a fit for your family. But, if you're looking for programs that will make your kids better skiers, make them fall in love (and stay in love) with ski racing, and hopefully keep them involved in the sport for a long time ... there are a lot of good options.

If you end up somewhere >1 hr from home, you may also want to pair the weekend program with night skiing somewhere closer to home (Wachusett, Nashoba, Bradford). All do (or used to) offer a weeknight program for athletes who train elsewhere on weekends.

So, in non-academy terms ... some thoughts, assuming that you're day-tripping from Boston, and not staying overnight at a ski house, etc.:

Wachusett's race program (WMRT) is good, but ... Wachusett is ungodly crowded on weekends, and training is often (or used to be...) during an early 7AM window before lifts open to the public. WMRT also offers options for weeknight training (I think up to 3 nights/wk but it's been a few years since I've talked to people involved there). WMRT is big, and some people love it, some don't.

In the Berkshires, Berkshire East has a solid program for those ages; Jiminy and Catamount are also good. If the "decent vertical drop" weren't as big a factor, I'd also throw in Bousquet and/or Butternut - fun programs that develop good skiers who love skiing ... but where the better athletes move on as they get to U14/16s. Edit: the western Berkshires (Catamount, Jiminy, Bousquet) are all right at that 2.5 hour mark from Boston. Berkshire East and Butternut are more like 2:15. Still a haul, despite being in MA.

In NH ... assuming that the North Conway area is probably too far, I'd look at Gunstock and Waterville. Pats Peak, too, if you're not too hung up on vertical. All pretty different programs, with different strengths, home mountains, and vibes, but all could be options. Weekend programs. Good stuff. Depending on what you're looking for, Ragged and Sunapee could be on your radar. Neither tends to have many high-level U16+ racers, but kids start there and move into other programs if they want it.

Technically within 2.5 hours of Boston ... Ford Sayre and Suicide 6 are within 2.5 hours of Boston without traffic and have good programs for those ages but ... it's a haul, and everyone is local. Killington/KMS and Pico are a bit more than 2.5 hours. OMS/Okemo too.
 
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SkiCanMom

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Thank you all for your input. Yes, so if Wachussets doesn't end up being a good fit for what we are looking for (I'm worried about being overcrowded as someone commented) we would be willing to have a seasonal rental for a good program. What I mean is that even if they are not top racers, they will still focus on developing my kid's skills. They do love the sport and we aren't overachieving parents. We want a good vibe in the club.
 
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SkiCanMom

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Why did I think you were in Ottawa? You're SOD. These "Academies" that they are talking about would be similar to the program at Blue where the kids go to school in Collingwood and ski every day. You're just looking for a weekend/ski camp program like @Muleski states above?
That's right!
 

AlpsSkidad

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This is a timely post, as we are in the same boat, probably relocating from the west coast to greater Boston…:popcorn:
 

S.H.

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Thank you all for your input. Yes, so if Wachussets doesn't end up being a good fit for what we are looking for (I'm worried about being overcrowded as someone commented) we would be willing to have a seasonal rental for a good program. What I mean is that even if they are not top racers, they will still focus on developing my kid's skills. They do love the sport and we aren't overachieving parents. We want a good vibe in the club.
If you're open to a seasonal rental, that opens up OMS/OMARA (Okemo), KMS/KSC (Killington), and Pico as viable alternatives, along with (possibly) MSA/MSTC (Mt Snow). They're all good programs and will keep you out of the NVC grinder (until U16 at least). The weekend programs will have a high proportion of kids also coming from out of state. All are slightly out of the 2.5-hr radius of Boston, but not overly so. Okemo, Killington, and Mt Snow have both academy and weekend programs. The amount the academies and weekend programs overlap for training, racing, etc. varies a lot, especially at the U14 level. The U10/12 don't have to worry about that yet.

Pico is pretty much a weekend program (Fri afternoon, Sat, Sun), though you'll have a higher proportion of local kids than the others.

There are so many good options within 2.5-ish hours of Boston. Really depends on where you want to end up/what your kids goals are/what is most important.
 
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SkiCanMom

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If you're open to a seasonal rental, that opens up OMS/OMARA (Okemo), KMS/KSC (Killington), and Pico as viable alternatives, along with (possibly) MSA/MSTC (Mt Snow). They're all good programs and will keep you out of the NVC grinder (until U16 at least). The weekend programs will have a high proportion of kids also coming from out of state. All are slightly out of the 2.5-hr radius of Boston, but not overly so. Okemo, Killington, and Mt Snow have both academy and weekend programs. The amount the academies and weekend programs overlap for training, racing, etc. varies a lot, especially at the U14 level. The U10/12 don't have to worry about that yet.

Pico is pretty much a weekend program (Fri afternoon, Sat, Sun), though you'll have a higher proportion of local kids than the others.

There are so many good options within 2.5-ish hours of Boston. Really depends on where you want to end up/what your kids goals are/what is most important.
 
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SkiCanMom

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My priorities are to have a good club atmosphere, parents who volunteer their fair part, and my kids who are doing fairly well, are being coached to improve by experienced coaches. They are not the best at their current club but they are having fun and are working hard.
 
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Muleski

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Just as an FYI, our kids were in the junior program at Stowe, MMSC, to begin with. Then for a number of reasons {one being that community feel}, including huge familiarity with a very, very good staff, we moved to Sugarloaf, CVA. Our oldest went to Gould Academy for two years, so we rented a house {and left ours unused} at Sunday River and our youngest was in the GSR weekend program. Gould had some issues and a temporary big hiccup with their ski plans, so we joked at EVERY ski academy, program and prep schools with high level ski programs for them both. We ended up with them at CVA, which we never thought we would, but it worked out very, very well for both. Our neighbor at Sugarloaf had his son at GMVS. Our daughter did a PG year at SMS.

Our kids were in a car Friday afternoons and Sunday nights, for realistically a 4-4.5 hour drive with a stop, beginning as babies. Every weekend of the winter. November through late April.

I think that people get VERY hung up on the metrics of "the drive" and in fact have their details wrong in terms of distance to some mountains. I know they do. My brother lives five minutes away from me. They had a condo in Stowe, and then decided to move to Attitash, where they had a slope side condo. Based on when he could get him and when they could leave on Fridays, and based on the traffic in the MWV, it took them LONGER to drive to Attitash than to Stowe. It is the exact same drive time for us to either Stowe or Sugarloaf, about 3:45.

Four years ago we ran into a family from our town, at Sugarloaf to watch some big races. They are Stowe owners. They were astounded that Sugarloaf was "so close" as they had been lead to believe that it was essentially Canada. They were expecting a 5+ hour drive and they drove nonstop in just over 3:30.

There are traffic bottlenecks all over New England on winter Fridays and Sundays. The key is knowing how to manage them. I can drive on The Maine Turnpike and 95 at 80mph without touching the brake. 93, either direction......no thanks.

We have friends who are CVA alum parents and condo owners. Very good skiers. Love it up there. They drive every weekend form New Paltz, NY. EIGHT hours one way. Yikes. That a lot. But when they get there, unwind, get to sleep......it's not an issue.

I'll probably PM the OP, as I think I can be most helpful that way. Thinking about it. Hate arguments on this kind of stuff.

PS....I'm not "selling Sugarloaf", more pointing out that the concept of drive time can be misinterpreted. Based on quite a bit of experience, the "ease" of the drive is probably more important than the clock.

Anybody drive from Denver to Vail on a Friday night with a touch of weather? That's a great example. For we New Englanders it can seem almost unbelievable.
 
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