Best wax scraper sharpening technique

[Rod MacDonald]

Just a small deviation to the topic....

For scraping after a waxing, I really could care less.

#pedant mode activated #

I'm aware it's common American usage, but the phrase is " I COULDN'T care less" .
I could care less is the EXACT OPPOSITE of your intended meaning.

Otherwise, good post....

 

[CalG]

#pedant mode activated #

I'm aware it's common American usage, but the phrase is " I COULDN'T care less" .
I could care less is the EXACT OPPOSITE of your intended meaning.

Otherwise, good post....

Actually, I said EXACTLY what I meant to say.

I could care less, but that would take an effort that I really don't care to make.
I mean, I always care a little about just about everything. caring less than a little takes attention!

Such is life.

 

[Doug Briggs]

^^^ An interesting example of semantics.

 

[James]

I had well over 100 scrapers to sharpen when I first got an electric machine. Scrapers that had bowed slightly, etc. What I thought was quite interesting, the first time I saw this, were the number of WC techs who were so busy working that they had a fresh box of scrapers, and would throw them in the trash as soon as they were dulled and reach for another. My son was hanging around the wax trailers at an event, helping out, and he probably came home one night with 30.

Whatever works for you.

Have you used the Edgr? Looks like one could feed it a Mantac.
The one in here: ( btw Grump, what's that "Switch" guide? Looks interesting.

The usual manual Suspects.
View attachment 58412
Newfangled fence and abrasive screen.
View attachment 58413
File and vise set up.

View attachment 58414

Electric power options.

EdgR with a trimmer motor/
View attachment 58415
Carrot.
View attachment 58416
Mantac.

View attachment 58417

Take your pick Go for it. It's all up you.

I have a box of plastic scrapers. Probably over 70 pieces. Most are cut from scrap pieces of plexi.
When a scraper gets dull I throw it in a box with all the dull scrapers. Rarely sharpen them until they are all dull. Production run thing.
At home, I use a router table set up with a large router. 1/2" up spiral straight bit with a 1/32" offset straight fence for sharpening.
On the road, I carry 8 to 10 scrapers with a Mantac unit. When the Mantac dies, I'll set a trimmer motor powered unit with a built up guide fence of either aluminum or plexi like the EdgR unit.

I use this thing that i got off ebay a few years ago. Brand is some s andinavian sounding word lik hoolcam...

Hohlmenkohl. Norwegian
They used to sell that, not sure who made it.

 

[Rod MacDonald]

Actually, I said EXACTLY what I meant to say.

I could care less, but that would take an effort that I really don't care to make.
I mean, I always care a little about just about everything. caring less than a little takes attention!

Such is life.

Nah, sorry . Wrong wrong wrong .


Explain then how being more careless would involve taking more care ?

 

[Muleski]

Have you used the Edgr? Looks like one could feed it a Mantac.

Have an Edgr. Does the job very well. Each of my adult kids has had a Mantac for some time. Still working. I think we returned one to be "fixed" at one point. I thought the Edgr was going to be a waste, until I bought it.

Now we can discuss Trione's and Snowsglides, etc., too. If it's made to tune skis, we have probably owned and used it. And depending on a lot of factors, they are worth every dime......depending on how many skis you and others are working on, and how much you value your time {and your skis}.

I'm a believer that power is OK. Though I very rarely rotobrush, unless it's doing a bunch of skis for younger kids....or my own and my wife's.

And, yep going back years, most professional race techs that I know {like the ones who actually travel with their athletes through the world} have used drywall screen on a flat surface....and most freehand with no guide. Have had that set up in our tuning room since it was rebuild in 2005.

Amazing that when we have techs visiting, a LOT of them are using the Edgr. The guys who tech for wax companies still seem to leave a lot of barely used scrapers behind. Not complaining!

I really find doing this by hand to every soothing and relaxing, but time consuming. If I have a block of time, I'll leave the weapons unplugged every now and then.

 

[Jacques]

Have an Edgr. Does the job very well. Each of my adult kids has had a Mantac for some time. Still working. I think we returned one to be "fixed" at one point. I thought the Edgr was going to be a waste, until I bought it.

Now we can discuss Trione's and Snowsglides, etc., too. If it's made to tune skis, we have probably owned and used it. And depending on a lot of factors, they are worth every dime......depending on how many skis you and others are working on, and how much you value your time {and your skis}.

I'm a believer that power is OK. Though I very rarely rotobrush, unless it's doing a bunch of skis for younger kids....or my own and my wife's.

And, yep going back years, most professional race techs that I know {like the ones who actually travel with their athletes through the world} have used drywall screen on a flat surface....and most freehand with no guide. Have had that set up in our tuning room since it was rebuild in 2005.

Amazing that when we have techs visiting, a LOT of them are using the Edgr. The guys who tech for wax companies still seem to leave a lot of barely used scrapers behind. Not complaining!

I really find doing this by hand to every soothing and relaxing, but time consuming. If I have a block of time, I'll leave the weapons unplugged every now and then.

IDK about a $400.00 scraper sharpener. I could buy 57 plastic scrapers for that amount.
Then again if one sharpens after each use of four edges...........one ski per edge................Hmmm 57 X 4 = 228. So one could only scrape 228 skis or 114 pairs, then would have to sharpen them.
IDK, it seems that after scraping 114 pairs, then resharpening eventually the $400.00 would come back after scraping another 114 pairs.
Then again, my math equations are not always correct.

$10.00 for a steel scraper. Resharpen on a stone from time to time. I have scraped several hundreds of times with that scraper. I think with the amount removed from sharping with a alum-oxy stone from time to time it could out last my remaining lifetime.

Then again some say using a steel scraper is a really bad thing to do. @Primoz
I think it depends on how sharp one makes it, and who holds it in their hands.

 

[James]

IDK about a $400.00 scraper sharpener. I could buy 57 plastic scrapers for that amount.
Then again if one sharpens after each use of four edges...........one ski per edge................Hmmm 57 X 4 = 228. So one could only scrape 228 skis or 114 pairs, then would have to sharpen them.
IDK, it seems that after scraping 114 pairs, then resharpening eventually the $400.00 would come back after scraping another 114 pairs.
Then again, my math equations are not always correct.

They'd be sharper then new. One could split it...

 

[Muleski]

I'm not saying that it's logical, or that it even makes sense. I AM saying that they work. I had made a decision, with two fairly accomplished racers living in our ski home 9+ months of the year that I was going to build a tuning room that checked off all of my boxes. Having been doing a lot of tuning for almost 40 years at that point, I went all in, shall we say. Tuning is not my business. I worked my tail off for 40 years in another business to be able to do this stuff......and enjoy it.

I can't even begin to guess at how many scrapers we've bought over the years, including a number of good old Sandvik steel ones! We used to get each kid a new box every Christmas, before the electric scrapers!

 

[Jacques]

I'm not saying that it's logical, or that it even makes sense. I AM saying that they work. I had made a decision, with two fairly accomplished racers living in our ski home 9+ months of the year that I was going to build a tuning room that checked off all of my boxes. Having been doing a lot of tuning for almost 40 years at that point, I went all in, shall we say. Tuning is not my business. I worked my tail off for 40 years in another business to be able to do this stuff......and enjoy it.

I can't even begin to guess at how many scrapers we've bought over the years, including a number of good old Sandvik steel ones! We used to get each kid a new box every Christmas, before the electric scrapers!

That's awesome that you are enjoying the fruits of your labor!
@James, he says "sharper" than new!
If I did my math correctly at some point it will pay off vs buying new. Then again, sharper than new..........maybe a good deal. New ones seem pretty sharp to me.
Anyway, if used in the right hands, I guess one will not remove any more base than needs to be removed to keep the ski flat while removing the wax prior to brushing.
When it come to scraping a ski, it's in the hands of the person doing it.
Maybe an automated ski scraper will be next on the market. Who knows, maybe a hand ski tuning robot!

 

[CalG]

Nah, sorry . Wrong wrong wrong .


Explain then how being more careless would involve taking more care ?

Explain?

Nah, Too much work. to even care.

 

[James]

The whole "black shavings" issue is interesting. Here's Zach Caldwell talking about it re hotscraping flouros.

This photo of a thin strip of base materials shows the crystalline UHMWPE sinters as the clear areas. The black web of material around them is the amorphous material where base additives live, and where wax goes into solution.

...You can also use the “hot-scrape” method. This is an effective method of cleaning skis, but I don’t like it for a number of reasons. Specifically, I don’t like it for cleaning pure fluoros because the soft paraffins used can’t carry enough heat to get the fluoros to melt and mix. And further problems arise when you turn the iron up. If you use a hot iron on a soft, low-melt-point paraffin, it is very easy to destabilize the amorphous materials in the base. This will cause you to scrape black wax shavings. Very satisfying if you’ve somehow convinced yourself that you’re removing “dirt”. But that’s not what’s happening. You’re removing carbon-blacking, and whatever other additive materials are in the base. Once the base is destabilized in this way, it tends to stay destabilized, meaning that you continue to scrape black wax shavings, and the base is quick to “dry-out”, or show areas of a white filmy deposit in the high-pressure zones after skiing. This white stuff is fibrils of the low density PE material in the amorphous zones, and it shows up against the black base just the way the black additive materials shows up in the white wax shavings. Usually both are present."
http://www.caldwellsport.com/2012/02/removing-fluorocarbons/

 

[Muleski]

Typical Nordie.......
Far too smart and intellectual for guys like me!

 

[KingGrump]

The one in here: ( btw Grump, what's that "Switch" guide? Looks interesting.

That;s the new MacGyver tool from Tools4Board.

 

[Jacques]

The whole "black shavings" issue is interesting. Here's Zach Caldwell talking about it re hotscraping flouros.


View attachment 58678
This photo of a thin strip of base materials shows the crystalline UHMWPE sinters as the clear areas. The black web of material around them is the amorphous material where base additives live, and where wax goes into solution.

...You can also use the “hot-scrape” method. This is an effective method of cleaning skis, but I don’t like it for a number of reasons. Specifically, I don’t like it for cleaning pure fluoros because the soft paraffins used can’t carry enough heat to get the fluoros to melt and mix. And further problems arise when you turn the iron up. If you use a hot iron on a soft, low-melt-point paraffin, it is very easy to destabilize the amorphous materials in the base. This will cause you to scrape black wax shavings. Very satisfying if you’ve somehow convinced yourself that you’re removing “dirt”. But that’s not what’s happening. You’re removing carbon-blacking, and whatever other additive materials are in the base. Once the base is destabilized in this way, it tends to stay destabilized, meaning that you continue to scrape black wax shavings, and the base is quick to “dry-out”, or show areas of a white filmy deposit in the high-pressure zones after skiing. This white stuff is fibrils of the low density PE material in the amorphous zones, and it shows up against the black base just the way the black additive materials shows up in the white wax shavings. Usually both are present."
http://www.caldwellsport.com/2012/02/removing-fluorocarbons/

So this is a one up for Glide Wax Cleaners. I know Swix is not the only brand of these cleaners, yet seems to be the most reasonably priced.

As it says in the end: " I really prefer to use fluoro solvents to clean skis! Unfortunately the very idea of using solvents on ski bases is anathema to many skiers. This prejudice is based on bad information and misconception. The base cleaner solvents are generally mild, and not astringent. They don’t go into solution in the base (a process which requires elevated temperatures), and they’re not going to “dry-out” your skis. They just dissolve the surface coating and allow you to brush away pollutants, preparing the base perfectly for a new paraffin application. Pretty cool! I use fluorocleaners regularly – a standard part of race ski preparation. But some of the waxers I have worked with and who I respect the most still swear by the hot-scrape method of cleaning."

 

[Jacques]

The whole "black shavings" issue is interesting. Here's Zach Caldwell talking about it re hotscraping flouros.


View attachment 58678
This photo of a thin strip of base materials shows the crystalline UHMWPE sinters as the clear areas. The black web of material around them is the amorphous material where base additives live, and where wax goes into solution./

I gotta' hand it to you @James, somehow you often come up with some really good information. Thanks.

 

[Pdub]

Back to the original question...

I finally caved in and bought the Swix Evo Scraper Sharpener last week. Wow, what a difference! My previous calculation was 50 scrapers cost the same as one sharpener. But after hopelessly dulling about 40 scrapers I'm done struggling with the panzer technique. It just doesn't work. Or, it works a little. But when you have 6 pairs of race skis and another 6 rec skis, with kids on snow 6 days a week, dull scrapers that require endless work on the panzer file just plain sucks. This nifty little machine saves a ton of time and effort, and the scrapers are like new. With 40 old scrapers to sharpen, I have certainly bought my last one!

Second best tuning purchase I've made, after the Verdonk Snowglide.

 

[Dwight]

Since I've been drywall finishing, figured I would use the dry wall sand paper instead of the joiner. Seems to work pretty well, free handed. I like it better than a panzer file holder.

 

[Sibhusky]

A bit hard to tell but clamped wood over drywall screen (black) and super fine sandpaper (far end). No free hand risk.

I rearrange the clamping occasionally.

 

[Muleski]

Most techs that I know, who travel have used drywall screens “forever”....often taped on wall. Almost always freehand. It works for them. Less to carry, too.