Northern Rockies/Alberta Big Sky Cuts Tram Access to Lone Peak for Ikon Pass Holders and others......

skidrew

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Its not Ikon but they are singling out Ikon?
I don't see them singling out Ikon.

For the 21/22 season, lift access products including lift tickets, Ikon and Mountain Collective passes, and select Big Sky Resort season passes will no longer have Tram access included as part of their base product
I think they're making it clear that with the limited exception of some season passes, whatever "ticket" is getting you on the mountain does not come with tram access. (I'd also guess that the agreement with Ikon and MC would prohibit differential treatment - e.g., BS purchased lift tickets include tram access but those through pass don't).
 

ejj

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As mentioned above--the line will still be rough on days with good conditions.

Skiing off Lone Peak offers some amazing lines that are pretty unique in North America. That said, you can also ski some very cool stuff if you are willing to access the hike areas--no tram required.
 

KevinF

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I didn’t see any dollar figures on the press release, but I imagine if someone is flying out there, paying for lodging, passes, etc. - it’s hard to believe that a add-on will do much to reduce lines tremendously. What’s another $50? when you’re already spending thousands?

I’d much rather ski the Headwaters... next time I’ll have to hike out to some of the more remote lines there.
 

mdf

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I’d much rather ski the Headwaters... next time I’ll have to hike out to some of the more remote lines there.
If not for the line, I'd prefer the tram.
Headwaters (and the stuff on the other side of the ridge) looks like good skiing. The hike looks scary, though -- narrow, icy, exposed.
 

KevinF

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If not for the line, I'd prefer the tram.
Headwaters (and the stuff on the other side of the ridge) looks like good skiing. The hike looks scary, though -- narrow, icy, exposed.
The various YouTube videos I've seen show the A-Z chutes (the other side of the Headwaters, I think?) just look like "point 'em" lines with sketchy entrances.

The Headwaters look more more interesting. It does look like they've installed a safety rope on the hike out?

My recollection is that most of the lines off the tram don't bring you back to the tram base? Like you ride the tram once, because it takes a long time to get back to it?
 

Crank

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I'm sure that didn't help, but the lines have always been long.

Snowbird used to sell two different day lift tickets, with and without tram access. Don't know if they still do, but it is a bit irrelevant now that everyone has a pass. Does anybody else have two tiers for lift access?
Last gathering there we rode the tram most days and it was usually about a 30 minute wait. I've seen it much longer on powder mornings.

The thing with Snowbird though is you can access everything the tram serves via chairlift. You can just do it a lot faster more directly via the tram.

Due to the small capacity which seems to lead to long wait times for Lone Peak I would not want to pay an extra, say $50 for what would likely amount to 1 ride. Maybe if they charged like $25 and you could add that on impulse, say via an app once you were n a position to scope out the line.

First week I spent at BS the tram was closed all week due to needing a new motor. It was included in our lift tix but they sure didn't offer any refunds. lol

What Kevin says about long way to return is true as well. I seem to remember coming down way out above Dakota.
 

skidrew

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My recollection is that most of the lines off the tram don't bring you back to the tram base? Like you ride the tram once, because it takes a long time to get back to it?
You have to ski around a cat trail and take the PowderSeeker lift back up to the tram base to do another lap. Probably takes less time than the line at the tram though. Big/Little Couloirs and Gullies are exceptions (though Gullies needs a ride up Powderseeker).
 

Bill Miles

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Reminds me of my Junior H.S. days at Snoqualmie Summit where you could buy a rope tow ticket or a full ticket that include the chair (1) and pomas (3).
 

Tony S

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And what if you’re a skier whose ambitions are greater than your skills and you’ve got lots of money to burn?
You just described the situation with wine, worldwide.
 

lisamamot

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Maybe if they charged like $25 and you could add that on impulse, say via an app once you were n a position to scope out the line.
Agreed. If I can’t add it on when I am at the tram then it likely is not worth it to me. Conditions and visibility change hourly - I wouldn’t be able to say first thing in the morning whether I would definitely ride the tram that day. If I could buy a tram ticket that was good any day until used, that would change things up.

Big Sky’s tram is tough to lap since, at least when I skied Lone Peak, I recall coming down over near Dakota. If you are doing the couloir, which brings you back near the tram, you have earned lapping privileges!
 

Tony S

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Agreed. If I can’t add it on when I am at the tram then it likely is not worth it to me. Conditions and visibility change hourly - I wouldn’t be able to say first thing in the morning whether I would definitely ride the tram that day. If I could buy a tram ticket that was good any day until used, that would change things up.

Big Sky’s tram is tough to lap since, at least when I skied Lone Peak, I recall coming down over near Dakota. If you are doing the couloir, which brings you back near the tram, you have earned lapping privileges!
You can ride the tram, and circle skier's left back via Otter Slide, etc., onto the lines above the Powderseeker lift. Depends on conditions, of course. We did that on my first gathering there and it was fun. You don't have to end up at Dakota / Shedhorn.
 

mdf

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Agreed. If I can’t add it on when I am at the tram then it likely is not worth it to me. Conditions and visibility change hourly - I wouldn’t be able to say first thing in the morning whether I would definitely ride the tram that day.
From the Big Sky Tram access FAQ:

To ride the Tram on a given day, there will be two options to purchase access:
- Pre-purchased Tram Access Packs
- Enabling auto-charge on your pass or ticket to be charged on your form of payment when entering the access gate to load the Lone Peak Tram.
 

Tony S

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Always the consumer advocate, trusting The Man no further than I can throw him, my problem with these things is this:

A vendor of a service (Ikon, Big Sky, Allstate, Avis, whatever) sells me a product for a fixed amount of money. It's a contract: I provide the money, they provide the service.

The money piece is always totally unambiguous and inflexible. I pay the $1000 or whatever it is or I take a hike. There is no option for me to say, "Weeelllll, you know, things have changed and I really only want to pay you $879.39 for this season because it's not a perfect world and I'm not going to be able to take as many days as I thought, blah, blah, blah."

The service piece of the contract should be equally unambiguous and inflexible. If it's not, there is no rational way to judge whether you should spend the money on the product. To put it more bluntly, there is no way to judge whether you're getting ripped off or not. To those who might say, "Well, you have to be able to support a little give and take because it's not a perfect world," I say, "Fine. Then the vendor should be able to do the same. $879.39 it is! Otherwise it's just the lord and the serf all over again."

In short, they shouldn't be able to change the terms after you've bought the product. If they want to change the terms they can do it next year. Otherwise it's fraud, plain and simple. Dammit.
 

Talisman

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You can ride the tram, and circle skier's left back via Otter Slide, etc., onto the lines above the Powderseeker lift. Depends on conditions, of course. We did that on my first gathering there and it was fun. You don't have to end up at Dakota / Shedhorn.
This is true Otter Slide or Yetis traverse to the Gullies, #1 Gulley to Cron's and back to the tram is one way to loop without taking any other lifts.
 

dbostedo

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Always the consumer advocate, trusting The Man no further than I can throw him, my problem with these things is this:

A vendor of a service (Ikon, Big Sky, Allstate, Avis, whatever) sells me a product for a fixed amount of money. It's a contract: I provide the money, they provide the service.

The money piece is always totally unambiguous and inflexible. I pay the $1000 or whatever it is or I take a hike. There is no option for me to say, "Weeelllll, you know, things have changed and I really only want to pay you $879.39 for this season because it's not a perfect world and I'm not going to be able to take as many days as I thought, blah, blah, blah."

The service piece of the contract should be equally unambiguous and inflexible. If it's not, there is no rational way to judge whether you should spend the money on the product. To put it more bluntly, there is no way to judge whether you're getting ripped off or not. To those who might say, "Well, you have to be able to support a little give and take because it's not a perfect world," I say, "Fine. Then the vendor should be able to do the same. $879.39 it is! Otherwise it's just the lord and the serf all over again."

In short, they shouldn't be able to change the terms after you've bought the product. If they want to change the terms they can do it next year. Otherwise it's fraud, plain and simple. Dammit.
In this case, the only products affected are Ikon and MCP which have been on sale already. The local passes went on sale in conjunction with this announcement. I wondered, in the Big Sky thread, if any Ikon refunds would be given over this.
 

raytseng

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From legal perspective, as seen in the Northstar parking case; yes, if the material terms of the product changes, you should be able to request everything to be rolled back. And if that case demonstrates that a change of parking fees for an upper lot is a material change, a charge for tram ride is even more material.
Which was the same logic and lesson learned when VR and Epicpass announced their Reservation System which changed the terms too; they gave the window of here is a timeperiod for you to request refund and undo your purchase, and put everyone back to original positions before the purchase.
 

BS Slarver

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No one is singling out IKON here by any means and I believe Ikon will refund your pass if it’s that big of a deal for anyone.
The majority of our passes don’t include Tram nor did they last year but Ikon could ride all day.
As a full time 100+ day skier I have skied on by the Tram more times than I can count.

The line has at a minimum of 2 cars ever hour for patrol. Another car per hour for guided and private lessons and many more just going sight seeing. It has gotten to the point that an hour wait is standard, sometimes 1.5 hours.
With the price of a IKON amortized over how many days you get to use it, pony up. The tram is a special experience. If you want line cutting privileges shell out way more coin.
It’s the same cost to add for a local on a
black pass or a green.
There is so much terrain here without it and only 37 more lifts to enjoy.
 

Tony S

I have a confusion to make ...
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As a full time 100+ day skier I have skied on by the Tram more times than I can count.

The line has at a minimum of 2 cars ever hour for patrol. Another car per hour for guided and private lessons and many more just going sight seeing. It has gotten to the point that an hour wait is standard, sometimes 1.5 hours.
With the price of a IKON amortized over how many days you get to use it, pony up. The tram is a special experience. If you want line cutting privileges shell out way more coin.
It’s the same cost to add for a local on a
black pass or a green.
There is so much terrain here without it and only 37 more lifts to enjoy.
All that is totally true and totally beside the point. My car will get me to California just as well with matte paint as it will with metallic paint. Nevertheless if I paid for the car with the expectation that it would have metallic paint, and then later someone else in the chain of commerce decided that there would would be an upcharge for metallic paint, then I am either owed a refund or I am owed a car with metallic paint.
 
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