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Pdub

best day ever
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First, I hope every one is staying safe and healthy and hunkering down. The end of skiing and work has given me way too much time to research things on the internet!

I just bought 172 cm Rustler 9s, my BSL is 295 (Nordica Promachine 120), I weigh 138 lbs, I'm 53, and ski fairly fast but more on the finesse side.

I need bindings. The obvious choice is Griffon vs Tyrolia Attack2 13. My old Kastle FX 94s have Griffons and they are kind of a hassle getting in and out. They also seem heavy.

So I'm considering Squires, only because they're so light.
Here is my thinking. I slipped a disc 2 years ago and my right quads are still weak. This has caused issues in heavy 3D snow, crud, and tight spaces where I really use my quads to get the skis around. I've pulled my lower back a couple of times in these situations, but that occurred with Enforcer 100s, my old Kastles, and similar heavy/burly setups. After many demos I settled on the Rustler 9 for this exact situation, where they feel really light and maneuverable. Can't recall which demo binding was on them. Anyway, light and maneuverable seem to be the key to soft snow happiness for me.

My concern with Squires is that they just may not be enough binding. My (self selected) DIN is 7 so I doubt I'll pre-release, but I wonder if a beefier binding might provide better energy transfer and control of the ski. I am buying these skis for softer days (I have Head Rallys for firmer snow) but I do love to lay down high speed arcs regardless of what ski I'm on. And performance is really important to me. Not surprisingly, heavier skis have caused no issues on firm snow.

So here are the questions:
Should I forget the 1 kg difference and go with the heavier Griffons for better performance?
How much does binding weight contribute to "swing weight" and the perception of heaviness?
Should I wait for 2021 Griffons? I understand they'll be more user friendly. Are they any lighter?
How do the Attack 2 13s compare? They have a lower stand height which would seem to be a disadvantage on groomers. Weight looks similar.
Is pre-release a risk on Squires if I'm skiing too fast on firm snow, given my stats?

Advice is much appreciated!
 

Philpug

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The concern you have getting into the Griffon is also a concern with the Squire. The 2021 Griffon and Squire claim a 30% easier exit entry compared to the current versions. Honestly I could not tell that much of a difference.

Stand height is a bit lower with the Attack which is negligible between the Attack and Griffon. Swing weight is again negligible between the two bindings.

If that is your picture in your avatar, no way would I consider any light weight version of any binding.
 

RickyG

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Hi...some input from this old dogger...I'm skiing the Squire 11 on all of my skis and I'm very impressed. 67/160 pounds/reasonably good skier. I really like these bindings. I have found no problems getting in and I've set the DIN at 5 bellow my DIN chart setting I can rip along all day long with any inadvertent release and then...it's fun to watch people double take...just twist out of them when I want out. So there is one opinion.
 
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Pdub

Pdub

best day ever
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If that is your picture in your avatar, no way would I consider any light weight version of any binding.

Ha... that's my son, when he was 12! I do have a race background but cannot do slalom like that.

Not really that concerned about getting in and out. Mostly was concerned about shedding weight, due to the above issues. Sounds like the one pound per ski difference probably isn't worth it.

So, I guess it's a tossup between Griffon and Attack. As I thought.
 

KingGrump

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If you have issues stepping into the Griffon, don't even think about the Squires. The first gen Squires were so difficult to get in, we removed couple pair and replaced them with Griffons. They say they improved the Squires heel few years back to allow easier entry. Yeah, right. :rolleyes:

Disclosure: We are a Griffon/Jester family... mostly.

Mamie is a Griffon girl and hates the Attacks. Even though is is 5'/1", #120 with a 265 BSL, she has no issue stepping into the Griffon. My son is a Jester guy when he is not on race skis. I am fairly evenly split between the Attacks and Griffon/Jester on my skis. I do feel the Attacks are a bit more surfy.
 

Scruffy

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Attacks are great bindings. I've never pre-released from them--FWIW. Ski hard, lots of bumps, trees and high G-force carves. I'm 170ish 5'11". They're light and the stand height is not excessive.
 

Scruffy

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Mamie is a Griffon girl and hates the Attacks.

Just curious, King, what's her problem with the Attacks? Not a challenge, just for my own edification. Thanks.
 

KingGrump

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Just curious, King, what's her problem with the Attacks? Not a challenge, just for my own edification. Thanks.

She does not articulate well when it comes to technical stuff. Trying to get info from Mamie is like pissing into the wind.
She likes what she likes, hated changes. She had a pair of Cham 87 with Griffon. Loved them. Bought her a second pair and mounted Attack 13 on them. She hated them. Keep switching back to her old pair. Gave me that pissed off look when she is on the new pair. We were on the Max pass road trip that year. After 5 days, I ripped the Griffon off my MX88 and remounted on her Cham 87. She skied the rest of the season on the new pair. Happy as a pig in s**t. :huh:

Her current ski are two pairs of Stockli SR85W and a pair of SR95. Both with Griffon. Her other skis are Kastle LX82 (K11 CTI) and Atomic FIS SL (X12 VAR). All have no issues. Must be something to do with the ramp angle on the Attack binding that she doesn't like.

My job is to keep her happy. So no more Attack for her.
 

ted

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Ramp can be a serious factor for some not so much for others.

I have some squires that have worked well for me but I'm. not hard on gear bindings.
They feel cheesy stepping into them, but otherwise have worked.
Won't buy them again though, I'd look at the TCX in the marker line.

I also have a pair of Shifts, no problems ski them hard, probably the lightest Alpine binding. I thought by now Salomon would have brought this out with a conventional toe to sell as a premium lightweight binding, but no not yet.
 

Eleeski

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The Squires I'm skiing on are reasonably light. They are a bit hard to get into when the boots are full of snow but I've never been unable to get them on properly. There's plenty of range with my DIN setting of 6 or my son's 7 setting. They seem to handle shock and vibration loads well with zero pre releases for me in the several years I have been using them.

Comparing to a Griffon, perhaps they aren't as durable. But who wants to ski a binding until it's so old that it's not indemnified? Durability has not been an issue for me because I have Schizio setups which mean that it's easy to swap the beat up bindings onto a second string ski and I'm usually riding the less used ones.

I'm a weight freak and would never run a heavier anything without a solid performance benefit.

I agree with @ted , a resort only superlight Shift binding would be very cool.

Eric
 
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Pdub

Pdub

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If there is a concern with ease of entry, swing weight and stand height. Look Pivot 12.

Your binding review shows the Pivot 12 is .5 kg heavier per pair than the Griffon. How exactly is swing weight defined and why would a heavier binding have a lower swing weight?

I'm a weight freak and would never run a heavier anything without a solid performance benefit.

I agree with @ted , a resort only superlight Shift binding would be very cool.

Eric

I think I am becoming a weight freak too and you have me reconsidering the Squire. I only weigh 138 pounds though I do ski pretty hard. The only reasons to not go with the Squire are 1. inappropriate release and 2. less efficient/effective energy transfer to the ski, ie lower performance.

I know there just may not be a solid answer to these questions, but with the world shut down there's ample time to ponder these things.
 

Philpug

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Your binding review shows the Pivot 12 is .5 kg heavier per pair than the Griffon. How exactly is swing weight defined and why would a heavier binding have a lower swing weight?
Rotational weight. the mass of the binding, specifically the heel is either under the boot or jsut behind it. Where is the Pivot most popular? Freestyle. What do they do of a lot in freesyle? Spinning tricks where rotational weight comes into play. Also the short mount distance of the Pivot allows the ski to bend underfoot easier for additional performance.
 

Eleeski

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I think I am becoming a weight freak too and you have me reconsidering the Squire. I only weigh 138 pounds though I do ski pretty hard. The only reasons to not go with the Squire are 1. inappropriate release and 2. less efficient/effective energy transfer to the ski, ie lower performance.
My understanding is that the Squire is fundamentally the same as the Griffon. Lighter springs and a plastic housing are the differences. ( @Philpug ?) Note that a plastic binding won't last as long, might start to rattle prematurely or not feel as connected to a ski so there might possibly be real advantages to the metal. But the lighter weight of plastic is a certain benefit I can feel immediately.

I like bumps so my bindings do get worked. Again, zero pre releases and I haven't felt them get loose.

Note, I was concerned about a rattle I could feel on a ski (different plastic bindings - Head Railflex). It turned out that the mount screws were coming loose. Repaired the mount and the bindings felt solid. At least solid enough for me.

I'm too old to have heavy equipment!

Eric
 
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Pdub

Pdub

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OK Eric, I think you have convinced me... but just wondering about your stats, i.e. age, weight, and average max speed on skis. Just want to make sure I'm no more likely than you to overpower them. Apologies if it's too personal, but I was unable to PM you for some reason. Feel free to PM me.
 

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